Character Discussion - Kallen

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

...I like Kallen and her past in the manga. And while it's great to like your work it's fanwork no matter what so please...
If I had to choose something non canon as a part of Kallen past it would be the peach story (though even that isn't fanwork since it's a novel. More like an official fiction like others novels.)
This adorable story where Kallen and Lelouch meet as children and he ends up giving her his peach. Someone said Red ribbon ? It was so screaming destiny like in all those japanese romance. Glad they were the only one having such a cute story for them

I've heard of this. It does sound cute.

I myself like the idea that (entirely of my own creation) the photo Kallen has of herself, Naoto, and her mother was actually taken by a young Lelouch who was walking by with groceries while he was still living at the Kururugui shrine.

[Bonzo]

Just your opinion, this was the first (discard) idea about the R2R comic event Kallen/suzaku after Merlin destruction:

Lelouch, after treat Kallen ask some troop to reach them for take Kallen away, in the meanwhile he's studing the damocles scheme and order to suzaku to sign their position to the allies.
But it's a pretext, lelouch run away in the mean suzaku is busy.
Suzaku understand what lelouch want to do and he run for him, Kallen is wounded but she know (thanks c.c) what will happen and she follow suzaku, but her wounds slow her.

Then the duel schneizel/lelouch is the same, suzaku arrive and defeat schneizel, so, lelouch is heavily wounded, but alive....

Suzaku respect the deal and he gun for lelouch head, but a desperate shout:

"NNOOOOOOOOOOO!!"

Kallen lay into lelouch's body like a shield.

Suzaku shout at her to go away, etc.etc. but nothing to do, then shot near kallen, but her reaction is take lelouch's handgun and aim suzaku.

It'a a empasse, suzaku doesn't want kill kallen, but...however, she's bleeding a lot, few time and she will unable to continue.
Kallen start to see double, then decide to kill suzaku right now.

Nunnally enter in the hangar and shout them to stop, suzaku down the handgun, but not kallen, until Lelouch has a shudder...

Kallen throw away her gun and tear the left sleeve of her jacket and use it to close the wound on lelouch's head using the left hand and the teeth for bind the knot.

Kallen (crying): "don't worry, I'm here to protect you...now I take you away from here...all will be okay!"

Etc..etc..

I decided to discard it and rewrite the act like you read in the comic, because everything was too much irreal and maybe odd, nunnally and suzaku must to become more important in the story.

Your opinion?

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Bonzo

Just your opinion, this was the first (discard) idea about the R2R comic event Kallen/suzaku after Merlin destruction:

Lelouch, after treat Kallen ask some troop to reach them for take Kallen away, in the meanwhile he's studing the damocles scheme and order to suzaku to sign their position to the allies.
But it's a pretext, lelouch run away in the mean suzaku is busy.
Suzaku understand what lelouch want to do and he run for him, Kallen is wounded but she know (thanks c.c) what will happen and she follow suzaku, but her wounds slow her.

Then the duel schneizel/lelouch is the same, suzaku arrive and defeat schneizel, so, lelouch is heavily wounded, but alive....

Suzaku respect the deal and he gun for lelouch head, but a desperate shout:

"NNOOOOOOOOOOO!!"

Kallen lay into lelouch's body like a shield.

Suzaku shout at her to go away, etc.etc. but nothing to do, then shot near kallen, but her reaction is take lelouch's handgun and aim suzaku.

It'a a empasse, suzaku doesn't want kill kallen, but...however, she's bleeding a lot, few time and she will unable to continue.
Kallen start to see double, then decide to kill suzaku right now.

Nunnally enter in the hangar and shout them to stop, suzaku down the handgun, but not kallen, until Lelouch has a shudder...

Kallen throw away her gun and tear the left sleeve of her jacket and use it to close the wound on lelouch's head using the left hand and the teeth for bind the knot.

Kallen (crying): "don't worry, I'm here to protect you...now I take you away from here...all will be okay!"

Etc..etc..

I decided to discard it and rewrite the act like you read in the comic, because everything was too much irreal and maybe odd, nunnally and suzaku must to become more important in the story.

Your opinion?

Eh, at the risk of receiving the scorn of the Kallen fans here on the forum, I'm gonna say I'm glad you didn't go witht this scenario. Personally, I think you've been milking this whole Kallen-will-do-anything-to-protect-Lelouch thing a bit too much. What's more, it doesn't really make sense since Kallen was supposed to be taken away to have her injuries healed (I mean, she almost died after having her Guren crushed with her inside). But that's just my opinion.

[Bonzo]

Originally Posted by Nobodyman9

Eh, at the risk of receiving the scorn of the Kallen fans here on the forum, I'm gonna say I'm glad you didn't go witht this scenario. Personally, I think you've been milking this whole Kallen-will-do-anything-to-protect-Lelouch thing a bit too much. What's more, it doesn't really make sense since Kallen was supposed to be taken away to have her injuries healed (I mean, she almost died after having her Guren crushed with her inside). But that's just my opinion.

In fact, that was one of motivations for discard the act and I added another sequence with rahkshata speak about a upgrade of the safety system inside guren cockpit (like airbags) to justify more Kallen survived without heavy wounds.

Like you see, to upgrade the comic was a good idea.

[Arbitres]

don't worry, Nobodyman. You could always use the Z-Shield! It protects you from harm! (funded and copyrighted by Kuro No Kishidan a.t.b 2017 - 2019)

Yeah, a good idea is 'tweaking' it. Kallen would be in no shape after defeating the Merlin... But with airbags/aircushions, she wouldn't had received as heavy damage. Still making her feat for active duty (sort to speak)

Bonzo simply is emphasizing that regardless of what Lelouch wants, Kallen is there for either a crutch or a one woman army. Though Bonzo was alittle off-track, it seems fixed now, or will be in the near future.

Call 1-7-5-1-19-19 for your... Z-Shield (7-5-1-19-19 being numeral spelling for 'G-E-A-S-S')

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by Solstice Cross

Bonzo simply is emphasizing that regardless of what Lelouch wants, Kallen is there for either a crutch or a one woman army. Though Bonzo was alittle off-track, it seems fixed now, or will be in the near future.

Yeah, well, my main problem is that he's already emphasized it six ways to Sunday. I think that message has quite clearly been sent. But again, just my opinion.

Oh, and I'll take you up on that shield offer. After all, every knight needs a shield, don't they?

[Arbitres]

...Touche on the shield. But I said Z-Shield (Zero squad only use.) Not S-Shield.

Emphasizing it doesn't matter much, it can be either subtle or strong. Fluff or mildly bitter of maturity. Whatever the artist/author/individual wants.

Me? don't care. If it's Kalulu, and well-done... I say enjoy it. Though nothing is perfect. So just point ou the bad so the individual can improve or lessen the awfuls, and make the good even better.

I like R2Remake because of this fact. Bonzo is quite the artist, plus... the expressions are always doing their jobs, giving emotions you could sympathize and feel along with. The storyline is just fine, Zero Requiem being decent... But Bonzo's story is taking a different take.(SUNRISE! Be happy you did the Kallen epilogue scene, otherwise I'd complain about ZR constantly.)

This take is what Bonzo said, and it stuck with me since. "In my story, people pay for what they've done." or something to that effect. Regardless, it was true enough.

But let's be civil. Or remain civil. Whichever comes first.

[Bonzo]

Originally Posted by Solstice Cross

.
This take is what Bonzo said, and it stuck with me since. "In my story, people pay for what they've done." or something to that effect. Regardless, it was true enough.

Making a little list:

-Lelouch lose the sight and he's obliged to live
-Suzaku will must perform the rule of a hero at despite of his real faults
-Nina lost her entire family (killed by the weapon she created) and the memory.
-Kallen lost her mother in a very bad way
-Jeremiah paid for his past with the death
-Ougi lost the respect of a lot of people and the sister of her best friend.
-Cornelia lost Guilford and she will live with the remorse never avenged her sister.
-Tohdou and nagisa will pay their naivety and their exalted patriotism living in britannia for years (insult kallen in front of kaguya helped it) watching the person they hate.

Etc...

[Paladinoras]

Well, i thought that his story was pretty damned good.

I mean, of course, there are some parts which I don't agree with, I mean, come on, we are all humans after all, we can't simply agree with everything another person thinks.

But overall, I enjoyed reading his comic and in the end, isn't that all that matters? Entertainment value, that is. And his has it by the bucketloads.

[azul120]

Originally Posted by Bonzo

Making a little list:

-Lelouch lose the sight and he's obliged to live
-Suzaku will must perform the rule of a hero at despite of his real faults
-Nina lost her entire family (killed by the weapon she created) and the memory.
-Kallen lost her mother in a very bad way
-Jeremiah paid for his past with the death
-Ougi lost the respect of a lot of people and the sister of her best friend.
-Cornelia lost Guilford and she will live with the remorse never avenged her sister.
-Tohdou and nagisa will pay their naivety and their exalted patriotism living in britannia for years (insult kallen in front of kaguya helped it) watching the person they hate.

Etc...

A couple of questions: what did Jeremiah die of, why would Cornelia feel remorse over never avenging something accidental (in the same way the truth about Marianne and Ragnarok flipped things for Lelouch) unless she never found out, and if Tohdoh and Nagisa were paying for their naivete, how would they still be hating Lelouch? Or rather, if they still hated him, would they be feeling as if they were being punished?

[Bonzo]

Well, these the answers:

1)before to become one of Lelouch allies, Jeremiah like a britannia purist did evil and racist things, he freed nunnally with the geass eraser, but at last his old faults reached him.

2)Yes, thanks the new revelations and C.C lies, Cornelia believe lelouch not geassed Euphemia, but at last lelouch killed euphemia...she can't avenge her sister (killing lelouch) slowly, she changed her revenge feeling with pity, but at last, she isn't really free from the past.

3)Tohdou and Nagisa hate Lelouch because he used them like pawns, C.C not hided more of evil things lelouch did, like the mass suicide of japan liberation army, etc...Lelouch totally ignored the honor code of a japanese soldier, etc..
They wanted to fight alone for japan, but Ougi stopped them for the fleija fear and did a deal with schneizel.
At last for them Lelouch is the primary cause of their disaster, because he started everything and taked fool of them at the beginning.
The final punishment (live in britannia and watch lelouch) is the consequence of their treason accusation against Kallen, Kaguya (more open-minded of them) not accepted that exclamation.

[azul120]

I see. But it still doesn't explain Jeremiah's cause of death. If karma were the cause, then a lot of other characters would be dropping like flies.

[Arbitres]

Hmmm...

If Jeremiah's death is indeed karma, alot of others would be dead, too.

It would make sense if his body started malfunctioning. Remember gefjun when he approached and attempted to kill Lelouch? That could've forced his expiration quite abit. Which is quite sensible when looked at.

Also, his body was horribly 'deformed' at Narita, him surviving at all was a miracle... on his part. Also, he may have done it himself.

The Jeremiah discussion is required to be taken to a different thread, possibly generic.

Hmph, I can see Nagisa badmouthing someone, but Tohdou? He is honorable, and his anger does indeed rise, he doesn't blurt out stuff. But! He did indeed betray Zero, which may be part of his 'naivete'.

While I could see them having heated discussion about Geass, their doubts are their answers, obviously If Zero wanted loyalty and nothing but loyalty, he would've geassed them so they'd automatically be zealots all the time.

This also affected Kallen as well. She worried about her loyalty to Zero being the result of Geass. Which would make her naive, too.

I can't really add anything to this discussion. Though it's sickly ironic Nagisa has to watch Lelouch and Kallen become lovers/family while her and Tohdou remain static relationship wise. hmhmhm... I'd have it no other way. Tohdou doesn't love anything but his country, Nagisa needs to get that through her thick skull.

[Bonzo]

Jeremiah fought against Schneizel soldiers inside the damocles, at last he arrived to Nunnally half-dead, he was invulnerable to Sayoko kunai, but firearms are another thing.
And after that, Schneizel knew him, then his weakpoints, for him, Jeremiah wasn't a danger.
At last Jeremiah mission was like a kamikaze one, he success thanks his perseverance.

About the other question, In the OAV, Ougi will speak with Kallen and he will be very...embittered, because at last Lloyd success to build a device able to erase geass influence (the same used to recover Milly, rivalz, etc memories) and all the ex-black knights used it, then he uncovered NOBODY was geassed, they did every zero's order voluntarily.
The last, humiliating defeat.

At Last Kallen is the only BK victim of the geass, but she already forgived Lelouch, because thanks his memories inside her, she knew the geass-order Lelouch gived to her, just answer two questions, without submission.

[CowSama]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

I've heard of this. It does sound cute.

I myself like the idea that (entirely of my own creation) the photo Kallen has of herself, Naoto, and her mother was actually taken by a young Lelouch who was walking by with groceries while he was still living at the Kururugui shrine.

Can anyone give me a link to that thing with the peaches? o_O

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by Bonzo

-Suzaku will must perform the rule of a hero at despite of his real faults
-Cornelia lost Guilford and she will live with the remorse never avenged her sister.

Do either of them ever accept the fact that their desire for revenge was wholly personal, as killing Lelouch would have made Euphemia roll over in her grave?

Originally Posted by Bonzo

-Tohdou and nagisa will pay their naivety and their exalted patriotism living in britannia for years (insult kallen in front of kaguya helped it) watching the person they hate.

Do they genuinely believe that they could have beaten Schneizel without Lelouch's help? As well, I'm not sure how they can see Lelouch as the "primary cause of their disaster" as he was the one who ended up saving them from Schneizel and Britannian occupation, yet still offered up his life in penance for the wrongs he committed along the way.

As for the alternate scene with Kallen shielding Lelouch, I'm not sure I see why Lelouch tried to sneak away from Suzaku if he was planning to let Suzaku kill him anyway, as well as the fact that he could have used Suzaku's help against Schneizel. Aside from that I'm mostly neutral on the alternate idea, but Nobodyman9 does make good points.

Thinking about it, given Kallen's "follow you to hell" line, I would wonder if rather than trying to get Lelouch to live when he didn't want to, she would instead respect his wishes and arrange a sort of "lovers-suicide" setup for the two of them.

[Paladinoras]

Oh god, people here have the same avatars....makes it hard to tell who is who and who. XD

And sometimes, it's better to force someone to live than letting them die. In fact, ALL the time it would be better. She would follow him to hell, but why would she let Lelouch do the dumbest thing possible by killing himself? I mean, would you let your girlfriend commit suicide cause she said she wants to? What? If you say yes, then you are one hell of a shitty boyfriend. XD

[Bonzo]

With simple words, Ougi tried to shifting the blame like when the black rebellion failed, that time he abandoned his place to follow villetta (after lelouch gone away) but he success to give all the fault to zero.
But that trick couldn't work after schneizel double dealing, because Lelouch/zero was gone and at the world they told he was dead, then ALL the fault was up his head, his and the other BK officers.
Tohdou was a man of honor, he was ready to be punished like soldier, but Nagisa unchained something of...forbidden.

At the beginning, after the final battle, when Lelouch was in coma, Kallen was ready to kill herself if Lelouch not survived.
She will need three years to heal the wound in her heart, and more five to return to be officially happy.

[Arbitres]

So Kallen would kill herself if Lelouch didn't survive? I'm glad there was that pendulum word 'If' in there.

Kallen was obviously mentally exhausted, as noted by Bonzo. She was there for Lelouch almost regardless. With that in mind, I have to ask Who was who's crutch? lol

Still, It was good.... I feel bad about Jeremiah still, but Kallen takes priority, along with Lelouch.

Offtopic: Should we bring the Nagisa and Tohdou stuff to generic discussion? Since it's where we do generic stuff lol

[Nogitsune]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Offtopic: Should we bring the Nagisa and Tohdou stuff to generic discussion? Since it's where we do generic stuff lol

Actually, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to discuss fanwork there. Personally, I don't really mind it here, since it's very much about Kallen in this case, and yeah, this is the Kallen thread (not to mention I have no idea if there is thread where it would fit better), but once this is taken to the generic discussion thread, more people might start bringing in their version of things, and that would probably not end well.
Not everyone is interested in the same kinds of fanwok.

If you were to make this about the characters in general and "what ifs", though, it should work.