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Old 2017-01-19, 18:12   Link #121
Arya
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Very good episode, I liked it. While some plot points were predictable, like Yoshino good intentions and Aki's being a good girl it was a well done episode, I liked the pace, it didn't drag on these points going straight to them. And they made Aki more likeable already.
Basically she and Makabe are similar, it's just that he hasn't a Yoshino there to fool him

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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
I wonder if anyone on the Futaba ship is swaying at all now that the girl jumped so quick from "I want to be with Makabe" to "I want Kojuurou to be with Makabe, and I want to watch every last second of it!"...
I wasn't shipping them, but it surely helped me to kill any possible second thoughts about it if they had took a different path for her. Glad they did, since this eventuality is what usually can break this kind of shows for me.
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Old 2017-01-19, 18:33   Link #122
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Aki really is the sheltered ojou sama archetype. That along with her trust in Yoshino makes it real easy for Yoshino to trick her. But in the end Yoshino is doing all this for Aki's sake. The date was nice and so far both Yoshino and Aki come off as likable enough.
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Old 2017-01-19, 19:28   Link #123
rladls2121
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Makabe might be glad he rejected Futaba as he just found out how Futaba turned out to be after she was being rejected by him and becomes one of the MakabexShuri shippers.
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Old 2017-01-20, 05:47   Link #124
Harry Dresden
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Episode 3
Yeaaah...this is creepy and a drop as my fears from first episode are slowly being confirmed.

Not only the show does not handle the concept of "two asshole MCS" with enough levity to make it interesting, but the "asshole justification" is heavily tipped in male MC's favor(I can literally feel the metaphorical fedora tips of the narrative). Its typical MRA/RedPill dream stuff with "male victim" power fantasy getting "justified" revenge(its okay to be an ass if you suffered before!) and "evil independent woman" who is just totally faking her strength and actually will be head over heels over the MC dropping her "facade" and becoming domesticated waif.

And then we have the tasteless gay joke this episode. Were tall the trap/butt jokes supposed to be funny or have me laughing? Creating a character solely for "gay jokes" because of his body shape is supposed to be a comedy gold? Then again this IS a show where MC thinking of all females as shallow and vain beings chasing after hot guys is supposed to be funny, so IDK. I have yet to see any actual comedy in this show that would actually gel with me, beyond some small moments. I guess it targets way different audience with such jokes, as I already said.

*mod snip*

I'm out.

Last edited by LKK; 2017-01-20 at 12:09. Reason: removed hint
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Old 2017-01-20, 11:00   Link #125
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Harry Dresden View Post
Episode 3
Yeaaah...this is creepy and a drop as my fears from first episode are slowly being confirmed.

Not only the show does not handle the concept of "two asshole MCS" with enough levity to make it interesting, but the "asshole justification" is heavily tipped in male MC's favor(I can literally feel the metaphorical fedora tips of the narrative). Its typical MRA/RedPill dream stuff with "male victim" power fantasy getting "justified" revenge(its okay to be an ass if you suffered before!) and "evil independent woman" who is just totally faking her strength and actually will be head over heels over the MC dropping her "facade" and becoming domesticated waif.
Ugh... another of those. Sorry, but why is it that so many people equate man-hating sadism with being a "strong, independent woman"? Look at the flashbacks we just saw, her "true" self is far from "domesticated". Her true form is harsh, judgmental, tells people off if they're not standing up for herself, and generally demonstrates both strength and high standards, even as she demonstrates an ability to be sweet when she feels like it. What you're seeing right now is a girl who HATES men and either tries to destroy their reputation or, if they're lucky, just toys with them and forces them to go through hell and fight rabid chickens for rewards that don't really exist. That's not independence, it's mean. She has come up with some reason that men are bad and need to be put in their place, and she'll only show kindness to them if they're so low there's nothing left you can do but pity them. Breaking through this fašade will not turn her into a domesticated housewife. There's a huge range of middle ground here and again the character she started out as certainly doesn't suggest that her natural state is anything like that.

I don't mind if you dislike this and choose to drop it, but don't go making this into a fantasy of breaking an independent or making independence a bad thing. Frankly it's almost as big a leap as the idiotic article that claimed Keijo encouraged pedophilia because one girl was an A-cup.
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Old 2017-01-20, 12:06   Link #126
DragoonKain3
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In all honesty, the manga version of this was even weaker than this. The date happened immediately after the rejection, and I was like 'WTF did I skip a chapter?' at that time. At least they fixed it a bit this time around, with the anime staff actually realizing the break of flow in the story. I'm also pretty sure that horror flick in the manga was strictly a horror flick.. I admit seeing them change it to a weird zombie necrophiliac movie actually made me chuckle. XD

I personally don't think Masamune 'getting revenge' on Adagaki is any sort Red Pill message, where the male is getting an advantage over the girl. If anything, the story is turning it against Masamune, as the more he gets to relearn about Adagaki, the more he starts falling in love with her again. Even more, the reason why he is falling in love with Adagaki is because she is showing her strength; if anything, it's the OPPOSITE of Red Pill philosphy. They usually talk about being a 'strong jerk-ass male' is the ideal type of male that people of the opposite sex falls in love with, when in here it is the 'strong jerk-ass female' that the guy is falling in love with.

I mean, I can get why people are not liking this story. Like it still having the 'MC sees heroine in underwear then gets punched' cliche, or the heroine is a total bitch (no defense here), or how MC wants revenge on her for turning him down when he in part likes her for her harsheness. These are all valid criticisms, and I admittedly just brush them under the rug because 1) they're childhood friends and 2) it's mostly done for humour. But this being a proponent of Red Pill Philosphy? I don't see that at all.
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Old 2017-01-20, 14:15   Link #127
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
In all honesty, the manga version of this was even weaker than this. The date happened immediately after the rejection, and I was like 'WTF did I skip a chapter?' at that time. At least they fixed it a bit this time around, with the anime staff actually realizing the break of flow in the story. I'm also pretty sure that horror flick in the manga was strictly a horror flick.. I admit seeing them change it to a weird zombie necrophiliac movie actually made me chuckle. XD

I personally don't think Masamune 'getting revenge' on Adagaki is any sort Red Pill message, where the male is getting an advantage over the girl. If anything, the story is turning it against Masamune, as the more he gets to relearn about Adagaki, the more he starts falling in love with her again. Even more, the reason why he is falling in love with Adagaki is because she is showing her strength; if anything, it's the OPPOSITE of Red Pill philosphy. They usually talk about being a 'strong jerk-ass male' is the ideal type of male that people of the opposite sex falls in love with, when in here it is the 'strong jerk-ass female' that the guy is falling in love with.

I mean, I can get why people are not liking this story. Like it still having the 'MC sees heroine in underwear then gets punched' cliche, or the heroine is a total bitch (no defense here), or how MC wants revenge on her for turning him down when he in part likes her for her harsheness. These are all valid criticisms, and I admittedly just brush them under the rug because 1) they're childhood friends and 2) it's mostly done for humour. But this being a proponent of Red Pill Philosphy? I don't see that at all.
Wow. I didn't even know about this Red Pill nonsense till now. Sort of like the so-called feminazis then, the ones that give everyone else a bad name.

Concerning the guy hating the girl for rejection while liking her harshness, I'd say that's a little oversimplifying it. Her past harshness was that of a girl who wanted people to stand up and show some self-respect and talked down the hero because he cowered and cried and acted pathetic. It simultaneously showed that while she was harsh in her view of his weak will she was very warm and praising of his kindness. All that flew out the window at the rejection scene where "she" declared that there was no way she could ever love a pig's foot like him. This is a completely different matter than calling him out for his weakness, it's a legitimate insult directed at him. So I'd say it doesn't seem in any way wrong to hate the girl for the extreme rejection while loving her for her normal self.
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Old 2017-01-21, 12:13   Link #128
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Makabe should have let her Aki finish explaining to the little girl about wearing the "weird clothes" is part of the "ritual".
That scene should be gold even to Makabe, he actually should have video recorded that critical moment.
After finally done with his revenge, he should put that recorded online as a parting gift, and then him having the last laugh.
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Old 2017-01-21, 12:56   Link #129
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In terms of the overall setup, I'm liking where the story is. The latest episode was a good insight into both how Aki used to be and why Masamune would have liked her. She was tough on those around her, but in a way that tried to get them to stand on their feet. Just ignoring how she rejects people her current behavior has gone to another level.

Look at how she uses Yoshino. There are bits of her old self in pushing Yoshino to stand up for herself...but not in regards to how Aki herself treats her. And in the end sends her off on errands and often criticizing her efforts. I can see why Yoshino feels the current situation and behavior from Aki isn't healthy and could use a chance to re-examine herself.

If Aki hadn't been getting more extreme it might be tough to get behind Masamune at all. But solid job of starting off with that insane rooftop rejection to set the tone. And since the level of his revenge is basically just doing what Aki herself is already doing it hardly seems particularly evil. If the plan goes as expected he's simply dropping himself to her level. A bad development for his character, but only falling that far.

What I like so far is that things aren't too simple. Yoshino has more depth than I expected at the start. And despite expecting that she legitimately wanted revenge for her own treatment, at this point she's still selling it as something for Aki herself. Similar to how Aki was harsh on a young Masamune partly for his own sake. Aki herself has some things going on under the surface. The eating disorder seeming to be related to what happened in the past. And yet while a lot of aspects of her personality have appeared to worsen, she still has the kindness she had before. And I'm curious to see why she's ended up like this.

And even Masamune has been interesting to this point. There's more than simply being turned down by a girl he met once and fell for. Rather it seems like they did get fairly close and on good terms. Which made the harshness of her rejection and that insulting nickname all the more shocking and traumatic. And for all this he isn't simply a revenge driven character. He has built up a bit of narcissism, has good grades, and will likely end up falling back in love with the girl. There is a good inner conflict there as he sees things that reminds him why he liked her originally and also things that remind him about why he's doing this at all.

So far, so good with this show.
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Old 2017-01-23, 01:26   Link #130
Mazryonh
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Does anyone else start to get the feeling that this show is starting to get a little predictable?
  • Oh, it just so happens that Yoshino is the hidden ally that Masamune needs since she's close to the heroine? How many romcom movies have showed that?
  • It also happens that the heroine has a bunch of endearing "moe weaknesses" in the form of her irrepressible appetite (despite her "anime-perfect" figure), easily getting scared at horror films, and cluelessness regarding dating. How likely do real female highschoolers have these "waifu" traits in real life versus fiction?
  • Aki also is willing to do most whatever seems nice to Masamune if she's told "it's appropriate" by Yoshino, such as making herself into a lap pillow after one-punching Masamune. Shouldn't that wait until the fourth date? (The last sentence is sarcasm.)
I know the whole point of this anime adaptation is to endear itself to viewers and sell BDs, but I feel like I've seen some of this plot type before.

Spoiler for Elements shown later:
Some people in real life are just completely blackhearted while having beautiful faces. I understand that this is a romance anime/manga and not a heartbreaking drama, but it would seem less cliche to me if Masamune eventually found out that Aki was never worth his time and attention in the first place. What if she's one to casually stomp on his heart a second time and then cave his face in afterwards for good measure, like Lisara Restall from So, I Can't Play H! did to the protagonist of that show?



If Aki did that to Masamune, he might finally have enough reason to become more of his own person and finally leave the wreckage of that old relationship behind.

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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Ugh... another of those. Sorry, but why is it that so many people equate man-hating sadism with being a "strong, independent woman"?
"Man-hating sadism" is sort of the "in" thing now for "strong, independent female anime characters," if the popularity of Meiko Shiraki from Prison School is any indication. Just look at some of Meiko's antics and her well-deserved fearsome reputation in that series.



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Look at the flashbacks we just saw, her "true" self is far from "domesticated". Her true form is harsh, judgmental, tells people off if they're not standing up for herself, and generally demonstrates both strength and high standards, even as she demonstrates an ability to be sweet when she feels like it. What you're seeing right now is a girl who HATES men and either tries to destroy their reputation or, if they're lucky, just toys with them and forces them to go through hell and fight rabid chickens for rewards that don't really exist. That's not independence, it's mean. She has come up with some reason that men are bad and need to be put in their place, and she'll only show kindness to them if they're so low there's nothing left you can do but pity them. Breaking through this fašade will not turn her into a domesticated housewife. There's a huge range of middle ground here and again the character she started out as certainly doesn't suggest that her natural state is anything like that.
Yes, Aki's current behaviour is quite mean, but the real test of the writing will be seen if and when both Masamune and Aki learn the truth, or he gets his revenge. Then all bets are off as to how each of them deals with it.

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Originally Posted by DragoonKain3 View Post
In all honesty, the manga version of this was even weaker than this. The date happened immediately after the rejection, and I was like 'WTF did I skip a chapter?' at that time. At least they fixed it a bit this time around, with the anime staff actually realizing the break of flow in the story. I'm also pretty sure that horror flick in the manga was strictly a horror flick.. I admit seeing them change it to a weird zombie necrophiliac movie actually made me chuckle. XD
A "weird zombie necrophiliac movie"? Maybe the author saw the zombie romance film Warm Bodies?

It's good that the anime writers found a good way to bridge the gap between the rejection and the date. Will the manga writer make a good bridge for that gap in a re-released version of the volume in question?

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I mean, I can get why people are not liking this story. Like it still having the 'MC sees heroine in underwear then gets punched' cliche, or the heroine is a total bitch (no defense here), or how MC wants revenge on her for turning him down when he in part likes her for her harsheness. These are all valid criticisms, and I admittedly just brush them under the rug because 1) they're childhood friends and 2) it's mostly done for humour.
Would you like it better if there really was nothing redeeming under Aki's bitchy exterior like I mentioned above? Would that have been a better story for you?

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So far, so good with this show.
I agree that there are some interesting mysteries with this show. How did Aki get her eating disorder? Why isn't it making her look like Masamune once did? Why did she scream for no apparent reason in the fitting room? And what will Masamune choose in the end, revenge or the girl?

And is this show the first one in the history of anime to feature a case of muscle dysmorphia? Masamune's obsession with his body development through exercise could be a version of that disorder.
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Old 2017-01-23, 01:53   Link #131
Nvis
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I must have skimmed the episode too quickly, but how the girl assistant know he's Pig Foot?
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Old 2017-01-23, 02:16   Link #132
rladls2121
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I must have skimmed the episode too quickly, but how the girl assistant know he's Pig Foot?
That is what is so strange about Yoshino.
Aki is the one who called Makabe that nickname since they were little.
No, what i mean by strange is that why Yoshino keeps calling Makabe by that nickname often is just too much for Makake? That nickname is a brutal insult to him.
It does not look like Aki ordered Yoshino to call him by the nickname while Aki is pretending to be playing dumb.
Aki said to Makabe in episode 2 that Yoshino is nice to everyone, but unknown to Aki, some of Yoshino actions are just acts.
Yoshino might have been watching Aki rejecting Makabe back then.

Makes me think what kind of secrets are heavily guarded in Adakaki's?
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Old 2017-01-23, 05:20   Link #133
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You guys assume it was Aki who called him that, but you can't know for sure. Earlier in this thread it was pointed out, that the child Aki in the window actually sounded like as if she was Yoshino (same voice actor?).

If this is true and you keep this in mind then it's far from "predictable" that Yoshino just happens to be the ally that Masamune needs .. Can you even consider her an ally if this is the scenario?
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Old 2017-01-24, 21:52   Link #134
BWTraveller
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Aki also is willing to do most whatever seems nice to Masamune if she's told "it's appropriate" by Yoshino, such as making herself into a lap pillow after one-punching Masamune. Shouldn't that wait until the fourth date? (The last sentence is sarcasm.)
Did you not notice Yoshino's reaction when he complimented her on the lap pillow? She obviously had no clue what he was talking about. Aki did that one on her own.

And yeah, as far as the name goes, the only ones who would know that name are the people who were present at the time and anyone said individuals told. And yes, some have claimed that the voice used at the start is "clearly" the VA for Yoshino, not Aki. I'm not that great of an ear so I can't say one way or another. All I can say is it's likely that either Aki told Yoshino about it or Yoshino did it and the creators here did a really bad job at hiding this fact (though it would've been worse if Yoshino was voiced by someone with an even more distinct voice).
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Old 2017-01-26, 10:38   Link #135
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Episode 4 was great (I'm suprised about myself saying that lol).

Masamune really fucked up his whole plan by following stories being told in a manga instead of looking at how Aki is going to act, in this case it was her who did the movement and finally stopped Masamune from screwing up this even more.

Aki can be a huge bitch sometimes but thanks to this episode, the flashbacks and especially the last part where Masamune saved her we were able to see all that is just a facade, she almost gave up and wanted to so something more than just staying in the same stage as always with Masamune, we can say Aki finally fell for him.

Now Neko is here to add a new dynamic to this series, oh man can't wait to see what happens next, is gonna be glorious to see the reaction of the viewers.

Spoiler for SILVER LINK WHY U DO DIS TO ME:
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Old 2017-01-26, 11:30   Link #136
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This week's episode felt shoujo-ish lol

Aki and Masamune had some amusing character chemistry. Other new girl showed up so I expect the show to feature more of her in the upcoming weeks.
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Old 2017-01-26, 11:59   Link #137
BWTraveller
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Episode 4 was great (I'm suprised about myself saying that lol).

Masamune really fucked up his whole plan by following stories being told in a manga instead of looking at how Aki is going to act, in this case it was her who did the movement and finally stopped Masamune from screwing up this even more.

Aki can be a huge bitch sometimes but thanks to this episode, the flashbacks and especially the last part where Masamune saved her we were able to see all that is just a facade, she almost gave up and wanted to so something more than just staying in the same stage as always with Masamune, we can say Aki finally fell for him.

Now Neko is here to add a new dynamic to this series, oh man can't wait to see what happens next, is gonna be glorious to see the reaction of the viewers.

Spoiler for SILVER LINK WHY U DO DIS TO ME:
Actually, I wouldn't say his screw-up lies in using the manga content to attack, it's the fact that he ignored context. If you say "I can't see anything but you" when a girl's running away depressed because she thinks you're ignoring her and manage to convey sincerity, it can work, but if you just sit in class staring at her so you can say that, you're going to look like a creep. Similarly, if a girl has been crying from sadness and you just turned her tears around, then saying you don't mind getting wet if you imagine it's her tears has a very different context than it would when you just see her standing composed under a crosswalk. Then there's no tears so it doesn't make sense and sounds pretentious. It's great to have a library of lines and moves to pull, but you need to realize just why those lines work and thus when to use them and when not to.

That said, Yoshino was right that pushing and pushing is really not such a good idea. Sometimes you need to pull. Actually, among the stories I've seen where great friends or childhood friends become lovers, this is one of the most important points. They even talk about things being so close that you don't get to really look at them and what they mean to you. Pulling back gives her the chance to really examine you, and it also gives her a chance to notice what it's like being without you. That's actually part of what's so useful with rivals. Since general courtesy and kindness/friendship can sometimes demand the guy pay some attention to the other person, the pull becomes unavoidable and the author doesn't have to manufacture any other reason and the hero doesn't have to deliberately shun her. Anyway, the timing of the pull was perfect. That umbrella gave her cause to repeatedly approach him and be faced with his deliberate avoidance, thus guaranteeing that she'd notice it immediately and quickly experience the frustration.
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Old 2017-01-26, 16:26   Link #138
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That was an amusing episode that revealed a bit more of the real Aki. She seems to have been hurt in the past too, an event undoubtedly related to Masamune.

Yoshino continues to be awesome.
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Old 2017-01-26, 16:56   Link #139
DragoonKain3
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Love the Aki/Masamune moments. Goes to show that it's not treating them like trash is what makes people like you, nor does Aki's heart flutter because Masamune works out, nor is it because he has a strong masculine personality. She doesn't buy Masamune's sweet words because she knows he doesn't mean it, but is swayed by his actions because despite Masamune claiming it's all for revenge, somewhere in it deep down, he does care for her. Heck, Masamune himself only remembers his motivation for revenge like in the last quarter of the episode, and if he really hated her, he wouldn't have saved her from being ran over. Clearly there's something more going on...

That said, enter Neko <3. I'm not going to lie guys, I personally think Neko is the MUCH better match for Masamune. Can't wait for the next episode for her proper introduction.

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I must have skimmed the episode too quickly, but how the girl assistant know he's Pig Foot?
Episode 2, around 12:00, assistant girl was shown to be in the window looking at MC and Aki. So she's definitely known him as a kid, but how she recognized him when Aki didn't is the question. Then again, maybe because she wasn't too close to MC is exactly the reason why she can recognize him. She's not blinded by the past, where judging by this episode, Aki is still caught up in it and so, to her Pig's Foot can't be anything but fat.
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Old 2017-01-26, 20:42   Link #140
FlareKnight
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Definitely curious to see things unfold with this cast .

And yeah the whole push and pulling concept was pretty on point. Constantly attacking isn't the best way to go. It was a gamble, but a necessary one in order to draw in her attention. Making her frustrated and wanting to force a confrontation. Although through that it shows how Masamume's motivations are so mixed. Yes he can't get a full revenge if his "tsun" efforts flop, but that didn't seem to really be crossing his mind. More just being upset that things would go into this cold awkward zone and she would just be glad to be rid of him.

I'm curious if Aki's past trauma is actually related to Masamune or not. It very well could be. But I'm just curious if it had to do with someone else entirely. Regardless she knows how terrible she is and yet would prefer to be disliked than having to put her trust in a guy again. In that sense the revenge plan would really just exacerbate the trauma. Not sure in that sense how Yoshino thinks this would do her any good. Unless of course she doesn't fully understand the trauma or has another plan entirely.

Would be interesting to see if Yoshino is actually playing both Masamune and Aki at the same time. That she doesn't at all intend on Masamune rejecting Aki. But rather helping to heal her trauma and trust issue by getting these two together.
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