Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Kairin]

Welcome to the discussion thread for Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero, Episode 20.

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[The Green One]

Well Mr. Pope is gone at least. Glad we don't have to look at that derpy grin of his anymore. Cmon guys another long conversation break in the middle of a battle to the death? Well the Queen finally makes her appearance while her army does literally nothing to contribute to the battle. She also seems to have time to leisurely stroll over to introduce herself to the Hero she came to save who's in the middle of bleeding out on the ground in front of her without any sort of care or concern.

*sigh*

I just want this silly arc to be behind us at this point. These last two episodes were terrible. Just about the only praise I can give this episode is everyone got to participate, the other Heroes included and it felt like they had some actual effect. Kudos to that at least.

[Ichinotachi]

So much for the pope and the fight, the pacing and how the episode spend so much time on meaningless things like the whole conversation and how the Pope didn't do anything to attack and use that time to wipe out the heroes or Naofumi trying to deal with the curse shield made everything even worse, let alone that awful soundtrack during the fight. Finally the queen is here, she looks damn fine after 2 kids.

The quality of the adaptation is not helping the source material at all, in fact is just showing the flaws of the story and making them even more obvious. Looks like the next episode is going to finish with this arc once and for all.

[Chosen_Hero]

^^Characters speaking on the middle of a battle for what feels like minutes (sometimes hours) isn't inherent to just this series, literally every anime is guilty of this so I don't understand why some are acting as if they have been insulted by it and as if this is anything new. As bad as it is you should be used to it by now, or should at the very least expect it to happen.

[Kanon]

"You guys simply don't know how to use your weapons"

Yeah... not really. It's true he handles his shield better as proven by his first battle against Motoyasu, but they were clearly talking about the cursed shield, which is something Fitoria said he shouldn't be using. And it was shown once again in this episode how dangerous it is.
For all we know, they're using their weapons just fine, they're perhaps not as versatile as his shield is. We have no way to know and neither does he.

The battle lasted too long for what it was, but at least the finale was bloody satisfying.

[BWTraveller]

Yeah, honestly even Goku was known to pull this at times, though not near as badly. The problem is less the things they do than the way they do them that makes us conscious of it. I very much like this series, but admittedly it has its flaws. For one thing, the way the Shield of Rage is handled is really not very good in my opinion. Too much silence and slow montages or speeches to call him back, and far too little sight of Naofumi himself ripping into his opponents. If you're going to do a character surrendering to rage and going berserk, this is not the way to do it. Instead it should be more centered on torrential floods of flame bursting out at his enemies and him roaring out in unleashed fury while he's being visibly eaten by the curse. If we got stuff like that, it would be awesome, but instead we mostly just get him in a dark place struggling until he hears their voices. The blood sacrifice at the end was one of the few spots where they did something good with the cursed state.

[The Green One]

I agree that conversation breaks are not a new thing in anime, my complaint is how the pacing is utterly destroyed by it. The battle grinds to a literal halt so they can chat while their foe is left alone to charge up his power in peace without even a second thought.

That's asinine. At least in other shows the examples I remember it was the characters not actively participating in the fight that would ramble on and talk while the villain and the character fighting him continue to battle in the background.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by The Green One

I agree that conversation breaks are not a new thing in anime, my complaint is how the pacing is utterly destroyed by it. The battle grinds to a literal halt so they can chat while their foe is left alone to charge up his power in peace without even a second thought.

That's asinine. At least in other shows the examples I remember it was the characters not actively participating in the fight that would ramble on and talk while the villain and the character fighting him continue to battle in the background.

Either that or find a hiding spot to discuss things and then their discussion is of more immediate importance; or, in DBZ, occasionally it's actually a discussion with the villain himself.

But pretty much this. Tropes aren't bad, as TVTropes likes to say, it's just a matter of how you use them. And Shield Hero does not use the mid-combat conversation well.

[justinstrife]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

^^Characters speaking on the middle of a battle for what feels like minutes (sometimes hours) isn't inherent to just this series, literally every anime is guilty of this so I don't understand why some are acting as if they have been insulted by it and as if this is anything new. As bad as it is you should be used to it by now, or should at the very least expect it to happen.

I have been watching anime for over 30 years. This is not how shows like even DBZ do things.

Haven't watched this episode yet, but I am dis-heartened by the comments I am reading here. I had hoped that they would not continue the pacing of the last episode. My enthusiasm for the show is dropping.

[Ichinotachi]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

^^Characters speaking on the middle of a battle for what feels like minutes (sometimes hours) isn't inherent to just this series, literally every anime is guilty of this so I don't understand why some are acting as if they have been insulted by it and as if this is anything new. As bad as it is you should be used to it by now, or should at the very least expect it to happen.

You're completely missing the point.

Being something common on any series doesn't mean that it has a free pass, some series use these moments in a proper way but this episode is a perfect example of how to not use these moments. As others mentioned this completely altered the pacing of the episode in a really bad way and that doesn't help the series as a whole when the last arc is not working for the viewers.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by justinstrife

I have been watching anime for over 30 years. This is not how shows like even DBZ do things.

Haven't watched this episode yet, but I am dis-heartened by the comments I am reading here. I had hoped that they would not continue the pacing of the last episode. My enthusiasm for the show is dropping.

Don't worry there's action too. And the conversations aren't as long as in previous episodes, but it's long enough to annoy. The action in here is, however, pretty darn good when it comes.

[Chosen_Hero]

The best representation of how conversations work in anime:

So don't worry, you are not alone in this regard.

[grecefar]

It would've been funny if naofumi had told the queen "fuck you" before passing out.

[Frontier]

Man, I was not expecting some queen fanservice. Myne and Melty's mom has really aged well. So not only is she beautiful, but she's ripped, commanding, regal, and a powerful mage all in her own right. Where has this woman been all season ?

"...and Melty." Ouch. I know Malty is terrible, but it's got to hurt that your own mother seems to prioritizes or cares more about your sister then you. Not that Malty doesn't deserve it, and Melty is next in line, but it still must sting .

The fight with the Pope feels so climactic that I wonder what they're going to be doing for the next 5-6 episodes. Is it all going to be a denouement with the queen taking care of everything and setting our heroes on the next leg of their journey? Are they going to fit in one more Wave ?

Naofumi loses himself to the Rage Shield again, necessitating his party to come together to try and break him out of it by reminding him of the happiness and good he's found in them instead of the anger, even at the expense of themselves. I actually thought Raphtalia was aiming for his mouth for a second there .

It was nice to hear "Rise" again during the fight with the Pope. Still the shows best Opening, and not a half-bad battle theme .

"Blood Sacrifice." That name is definitely not joking, what with blood popping out of Naofumi as soon as he ended it and then summoning a giant chain monster that eats the Pope and spreads his blood everywhere. That was pretty brutal .

"Naofumi's Triumphant Return." So is Naofumi finally going to get a major win? Is the title meant to be ironic? It's almost hard to believe there's more light at the end of the tunnel for Naofumi, but maybe the queen is really back to set things right .

Originally Posted by BWTraveller

But pretty much this. Tropes aren't bad, as TVTropes likes to say, it's just a matter of how you use them. And Shield Hero does not use the mid-combat conversation well.

I thought they were better here then in the last episode where they had such a long, drawn out, hashing out in front of the Pope. They felt brief enough here amidst all the Pope's attacks to be believable for me, in my opinion.

[Kanon]

Talking is usually a free action in fighting anime, but that's not the case here. The Pope pointed out last week and once again this week that the time they spent talking allowed him to charge his attacks and strengthen his defenses, so it just makes the characters look bad.

The real problem though is that they're just rehashing stuff from previous arcs. Naofumi had already told Ren and Itsuki about their shortcomings in a previous episode. He had already lost himself in rage/hatred and been brought back by his Raphtalia twice in the series. All they did was add Filo and Melty. The entire sequence was just a waste of time.

[BWTraveller]

Originally Posted by Frontier

"...and Melty." Ouch. I know Malty is terrible, but it's got to hurt that your own mother seems to prioritizes or cares more about your sister then you. Not that Malty doesn't deserve it, and Melty is next in line, but it still must sting .

One must bear in mind that Mommy has known Malty for her entire life, and that Malty's behavior has apparently been bad enough to warrant her having her authority and position as heir stripped from her. One must also bear in mind that the Shadows have been watching a fair amount of the events leading to this point and reporting to the queen. In short, Malty dug her own grave there.

I thought they were better here then in the last episode where they had such a long, drawn out, hashing out in front of the Pope. They felt brief enough here amidst all the Pope's attacks to be believable for me, in my opinion.

Wholly agree there. Definitely better than the last episode. I'd still love it if they did the Shield of Wrath parts better though. I mean, this corrupting power and loved ones bringing him back has been done before, and far better. One big thing is all the good portrayals I've seen put a main focus on an external view. Show his actual transformation and his comrades' desperate struggles to cling to him and free him even if it means suffering a curse themselves. Showing the inner dialog is ok too, but the external action needs to take precedence as that's where the action is.

[Twi]

One must also bear in mind she tried to kill her younger sister numerous times in a bid for the throne. Tha fact that she's still breathing is something she should be grateful for.

Originally Posted by Kanon

"You guys simply don't know how to use your weapons"

Yeah... not really. It's true he handles his shield better as proven by his first battle against Motoyasu, but they were clearly talking about the cursed shield, which is something Fitoria said he shouldn't be using. And it was shown once again in this episode how dangerous it is.
For all we know, they're using their weapons just fine, they're perhaps not as versatile as his shield is. We have no way to know and neither does he.

The show really tries to heavy hand that Naofumi is in the right, overcompensating for the crap he got early on.

[The Green One]

He's certainly more in the right than the other 3 heroes, but he's not without his flaws.

[blakstealth]

Wow, the Queen....

*gulp*

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Talking is usually a free action in fighting anime, but that's not the case here. The Pope pointed out last week and once again this week that the time they spent talking allowed him to charge his attacks and strengthen his defenses, so it just makes the characters look bad.

At least here it was more because they were strategizing and less standing around and sniping at each other.

The real problem though is that they're just rehashing stuff from previous arcs. Naofumi had already told Ren and Itsuki about their shortcomings in a previous episode. He had already lost himself in rage/hatred and been brought back by his Raphtalia twice in the series. All they did was add Filo and Melty. The entire sequence was just a waste of time.

The Rage Shield was stronger now (on top of Fitoria's warnings about using it) and the last episode made it apparent that Naofumi still has his anger issues towards the other Heroes, so I felt the sequence where they broke him out of it was somewhat necessary.

And if it sticks better this time, then I think it will have been worth it.