Abilities and Technologies: Speculation based on Science, Metaphysics, and Magic

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by I_am_Kami

Nanoha sucks. Come at me.

Sigh, you didn't get the joke, nevermind...

And nobody cares Kami... Nobody cares...

Of course Nanoha sucks now, why else would I move house to here two years ago? Don't state the obvious please, you're better than that.

[leukrota]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

I'm sorry to hear that- You know what you should do? You should trying dipping into Nanoha's magitech discussion thread; compared to us, those guys are loads of fun and will absolutely, definitely, positively not take things too seriously...

Sounds like troll bait.

[ellifeedn]

Originally Posted by leukrota

I guess this won't generate much discussion...

Ok, here another wild idea inspired by that aborted embryo of a theory.

What if Espers are actually magicians who use Science as their belief system?

I suppose that being made a psychic (I refuse to use that other term) is similar to being baptised, if I'm using the right word.

[leukrota]

Baptized, but yeah... undergoing the curriculum could be a sort of baptism.

BTW, now that you mention it, why are we using the term "esper"? If I remember correctly the novels use something more similar to "ability user"...

[Marcus H.]

It's a consolidated term that's already been established.
Please don't try to make a major amendment to the terminology, thank you very much.

[leukrota]

I'm asking out of curiosity, to see if anyone knows how it was decided.
I'm not suggesting to change anything.
Please don't make prejudiced assumptions, thank you very much.

[Marcus H.]

Okay, let's just answer that. One reason why "esper" is chosen as a translation over "ability user" is because "ability user" is too literal: "chounouryoku" = "ability" and "-sha" denotes a person, so you get "ability user" for that. However, as one watches Index and Railgun, it becomes much clearer that "chounouryokusha" refers to people with psychic abilities, and since "espers" is the term often used for people with psychic abilities, "esper" is used instead of "ability user".

Apologies for my response. I just don't want events (read: shitstorms) similar to what happened when Sasha's surname spelling or one of those various mistranslations in the light novels (Accelerator splitting Russia in half, anyone?) gets discussed to happen.

[leukrota]

All right, no hard feelings, and thanks for the answer.

[Sumeragi]

"Chounouryoku" is meant to mean what in English would be "esper ability".

[Apache Thunder]

Alright I would like to throw around an idea I've had that I can toss into this thread to get things going again. What about the possibility of time travel? Not in the sense of an ability for a separate Esper as I'm sure this has probably been discussed before, but an ability that a lvl 5 or pre-lvl 6 (aka "Awakened") teleporter could develop.

Last time I checked, Acadamy City doesn't have a lvl 5 teleporter. Closest one is Awaki and Koruko would come in second. As I understand it Koruko uses higher dimensions and such to teleport herself and other things from one point to another. (I am unsure of what type of physics Awaki uses. Perhaps her method of calculation is different or her AIM field acts on it differently)

But lets say a lvl 6 or an "awakened" Koruko (or Awaki, chose your favorite here. :P ) could develop it to a degree that one would then not only teleport from one place to another, but also teleport from one time to another. Basically the ability to teleport in all 4 dimensions and not just from one physical location to another in the normal 3 dimensions. I wonder what kind jump in power would require something like this and whether Awaki or Koruko would be most likely to achieve it first if at all.

It would be for an interesting dynamic in the story if one of the teleporters finds out how to teleport through time and what kind of limitations the author could use so that it doesn't become too overpowered?

Another Anime that put time travel to good use was Haruhi with the story arc involving Kyon going back in time to fix an alteration that Nagato did to the time line that would have caused him to never meet Haruhi and Haruhi never having powers. This story arc happened to be the most popular of the series.

So it could be something that would work in this series as well. Especially with all the other supernatural stuff going on so time travel wouldn't be too out of place either.

[Flere821]

Problem: Not every esper/ability has the potential to 'awaken'. Accelerator and Kakine were special in that they held abilities that are:

Originally Posted by Vol15 Ch5 Pt4

Different from this world, this is 'organic' and 'inorganic' in terms of a different world. The one who wields the power of God and the one who has touched the territory of God

Whereas people with, say, pyrokinesis don't have that capability. Teleporting might be relatively rare (54 people in Academy City with this ability right? ref Vol8), but it isn't ''H4XX0R" in-universe enough to qualify for Awakening.

*Snips rant about how some people refuse to acknowledge this fact and have Mikoto awaken - electromaster ability isn't special enough, hard work does jack all compared to pure talent (cough Saints vs normal magicians (Vol16), Black Wings vs normal espers etc cough) in One-on-One battles, etc*

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Flere821

Problem: Not every esper/ability has the potential to 'awaken'. Accelerator and Kakine were special in that they held abilities that are:

Just humor the idea.

Originally Posted by Apache Thunder

Perhaps her method of calculation is different or her AIM field acts on it differently)

Different method of calculation.

Kuroko only have to calculate the location of her destination since she's using her position as the origin, while Awaki has to calculate the object's location and then it's destination.

Originally Posted by Apache Thunder

But lets say a lvl 6 or an "awakened" Koruko (or Awaki, chose your favorite here. :P ) could develop it to a degree that one would then not only teleport from one place to another, but also teleport from one time to another. Basically the ability to teleport in all 4 dimensions and not just from one physical location to another in the normal 3 dimensions. I wonder what kind jump in power would require something like this and whether Awaki or Koruko would be most likely to achieve it first if at all.

Isn't our current understanding of physics say something about 'technically' going to the future, but you can't go into the past ?

Mah nevermind, long story short we don't know what would happen.

[Ashaman]

If Accelerator had an oxygen supply, could he survive for extended periods in space without any other equipment?

[Mr.Kyon]

Originally Posted by Ashaman

If Accelerator had an oxygen supply, could he survive for extended periods in space without any other equipment?

As long as he has power to his choker, he could. Otherwise he'd be facing ultraviolet radiation if he's exposed to sunlight, which would first give him a severe sunburn, then roast his skin so it peels right off. His ears would also have to be protected.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Then there's the problem with the subzero temperature and non-existence pressure, blood might not be able to maintain it's liquid form.

And worst of all are the micro meteorites that travel at hypersonic speeds.

[Ashaman]

Space isn't instant freeze you know. If he's in the solar system, he's more likely to roast than freeze. And considering we;ve seen the man walk through fire without a care in the world, I'm gonna assume he can handle heat.

Second, the pressure issue is what made me ask in the first place. I think he could regulate it with his abilities, so that he wont explode.

As for the micro-meterites- well, you can imagine the lack of fucks Accelerator would have for them.

What gets to me is, can he do all of it at once?

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by Ashaman

Space isn't instant freeze you know. If he's in the solar system, he's more likely to roast than freeze. And considering we;ve seen the man walk through fire without a care in the world, I'm gonna assume he can handle heat.

Depends on where you are, if you're in the sunlight then yes you'll roast.

Originally Posted by Ashaman

As for the micro-meterites- well, you can imagine the lack of fucks Accelerator would have for them.

He would if it damages his choker but okay lets assume it's protected.

Speaking of choker, you would have to consider whether any electromagnetic field would screw with it.

[Apache Thunder]

I don't recall any one ever trying to physically attack his choker directly while his ability was active, so it's not known if he's able to protect the choker with his ability or not.

Assuming he can, I would assume he would have to shield it from the cosmic radiation that would fry it if it was exposed in space without the Earth's magnetic field.

Also keep in mind that thanks to his collar device, he's probably limited in distance with respect to the Earth. Even if he can go as far out as the Moon perhaps and still maintain a connection with the Misaka's the great distance would begin to introduce a significant delay in sending out and receiving data from the network.

For example. Lets say he went out to Mars and was still able to remain connected to the network. It would take around 40 minutes or so for the electromagnetic waves (most likely in the form of Microwaves or radiowaves depending on the nature of the field that the clones use to communicate).

Lets say the pressure suddenly changes or a rock hits him. The rock/projectile/energy enters his AIM field. In order to calculate the appropriete response, he would have to send the information relating to the incoming vectors to the misaka network. That will take 20 to 40 minutes to reach Earth and the network. They calculate the vectors and send it back to him. That's another 20/40 minutes. By that time the projectile or energies have already penetrated and injured him thus defeating the whole process. So that would mean it would be impossible for him to compensate for any immediate threat.


So as a result in a practical since he can't really go any significant distance from the Earth other then perhaps low earth orbit before the communication delays become deadly for him. If he's as far out as the moon it could take a minute or so to communicate back and forth and that would be slow enough that micro meteorites can pass through him before he can have a chance to get the calculations in place to redirect them.


He'll either have to lose the choker before doing any space travel, bring the entire Misaka network with him in his space travels, or invent a choker that communicates with a process involving quantum entanglement as that is the only theoretical communication method that would remain instantaneous at any distance.

That pretty much settles that argument.

Though prechoker Accelerator can most likely cope with ANY condition in space provided he's got something to bring his oxygen with. Everything he could possibly interact with in the depths of space are pretty much run of the mill vectors for him and they pale compared to the complicated crap he's had to process in the many encounters with Espers and Magicians alike on Earth. So sans the choker, space travel would be really easy for him. :P

Another thought. He would still need to provide some form of propellent inorder to actually get around in space. In many instances he's had to modify existing vectors like the ground or the Earth's atmosphere around him inorder to propel himself. For example he created air vortexes to propel him in to the air inorder to give Awaki his mighty punch. Thus in space, there is nothing but a vacuum. Perhaps he could find a way to gather the solar radiation around him and use that but it's a long shot and it would be very slow. He would have a hard time getting around out there, but surviving it is something that would be easy for him. :P

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Apache Thunder

Thus in space, there is nothing but a vacuum. Perhaps he could find a way to gather the solar radiation around him and use that but it's a long shot and it would be very slow. He would have a hard time getting around out there, but surviving it is something that would be easy for him. :P

With a person of pre-headshot Accelerator's abilities, all he needs are the smallest particles (No, space is not a vacuum) to move around.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by leukrota

Well, that's pretty much what I'm suggesting .

The reason the Espers get the backlash might not be due to an incompatibility of systems but that their minds and bodies only allow them to perform a small subset of spells...

Or perhaps it's not their bodies' fault, but their AIM. According to this crack induced theory the AIM is constantly refining energy to feed the Esper's powers. If an Esper tried refining energy for a different purpose then the AIM's and the spell's refining processes would get in each other ways and result in failing both processes, hence the increased backlash (it would be similar to failing 2 spells at the same time.)

Hmm.. I'm starting to think about a different theory, but I'll leave that for another time.

your idea that magic is a cruder form of Level Upper is kinda intresting.

Well we know that AIM and Mana are incompatable with each other and mages casting in dense areas of aim also suffer backlash, and there is also Telesma (Angelic power) which as been shown to cause backlash in humans if not first converted to mana (although there are other ways around it such as how Birdway is able to use it directly and useing Curtana and what ever happend to Sasha Kreutzev durring angel fall that stored some in her with out the backlash)

It may be that the 3 are like electricisty IE putting DC, AC or 3-Phase on a circit that was not designed to handel it will likely cause masave damage to it, but it is possable to convert between them if you know what your doing. perhaps that is why it seems someone whants to keep the sides as sepreat as possable. The later books do seem to sugest that there are a few espers that can ajust there PR's to limit the backlash