[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch

[Antera Caramichael]

I personnally think that Beato really sympathised with Battler in the first part of Ep3. She even THINK in Ep4 Tea Party that she really did. I think the Sun and North Wind plot came after she was rejected in the First Twilight. She surely realized then that Battler really was weak against his emotions and decided to use them.
But what really disturbs me in this tactic is that she knew that she wouldn't win even BEFORE Ange's appearance. How do we know? A simple phrase to Kanon's ghost: "You will regret in the next game" (or something like that, in any cases, she talked about the next game). She knew that she wouldn't win with her tactic, but she still perform it. In other words, she didn't wanted Battler to sympathized with her anymore.

[Squirrellord]

Originally Posted by Kamar

It doesn't make sense to say that Virgilia teaching her to use sympathy was something staged for Battler--he didn't see that happen, or he'd have been suspicious all along.

Battler doesn't see any of the scenes in episode 1 where the servants talk to Kinzo either. Yet we know those scenes couldn't have happened. Therefore, they're just there to screw with us . So if Ryuukishi kept up the act at all times, even when it wasn't in front of Battler but just in front of us, the viewers.... well, I wouldn't put it past him.

And the scene with Eva-Beatrice killing Rosa and Maria, she does kill Maria and Beatrice is forced to step in and bring them both back.
"`When Beato waved her pipe, seven colors of smoke poured out, reviving Rosa and Maria.`@ `......Compared to how the new Beatrice had done it a short while ago, it was slightly gentler.`@
`...It was probably gentler that how Beato had done it herself up until now.`\"

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Squirrellord

Yet we know those scenes couldn't have happened.

If you don't want to use magic explanations, yeah.

I can think of several ways Kinzo could still be around, the best one being that he made furniture of his own body and then placed his soul into it, thus prolonging his own "life".

[Antera Caramichael]

Like Voldemort? =p

[Ithekro]

I'd say that makes sense, but it doesn't really.

Maybe because I think of these events as more realistic than magical. Sure the magic might be real, but I tend to be of the opinion that the real and the magic represent each other in most cases. A magical scene might be a magical interpritation of an event in Maria's mind, or a real event might have a magical quality instead.

Sure one might be able to take everything at face value, but that's not how mysteries work most of the time. To much Holmes I suppose.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Antera Caramichael

Like Voldemort? =p

Voldy isn't exactly the first villain to come up with that idea... it's fairly standard for Evil Magic Dudes.

Originally Posted by Ithekro

To much Holmes I suppose.

I'm more of a Poirot fan, myself...

[Ithekro]

That things aren't as they seem works for both Poirot and Holmes, only the telling differs.

[Squirrellord]

Dr. Gideon Fell is better than both Holmes and Poirot. He deals almost exclusively in Locked Room Mysteries ;D

[gtr06]

Kanon is the most suspicious.

Kanon, said to be dead by Nanjo in episode 1, but only 2 other people were with him.

Kanon episode 2. MISSING.

Kanon coming back to life, to kill Nanjo and Kumasawa.

Kanon, supposedly dead in the church, leading Jessica to the parlor, where she apparently dies, most likely by Eva

Kanon's episode 4. MISSING body.

I don't know of any other characters with such obscurity. Except Shannon.

[vandakiara]

Originally Posted by gtr06

Kanon is the most suspicious.

Kanon, said to be dead by Nanjo in episode 1, but only 2 other people were with him.

Kanon episode 2. MISSING.

Kanon coming back to life, to kill Nanjo and Kumasawa.

Kanon, supposedly dead in the church, leading Jessica to the parlor, where she apparently dies, most likely by Eva

Kanon's episode 4. MISSING body.

I don't know of any other characters with such obscurity. Except Shannon.

maybe he's too suspicious and that itself is proof that it's not him? you know, like ryukishi was trying to make us suspect him for us not to discover the real culprit... *I can imagine him doing that actually*

[Marion]

Kanon's death is confirmed right away after the 1st twilight is discovered during EP 3, as well as the deaths of the servants and Kinzo. So unless you want to think of it as 'Kanon the servant died, but the actual person didn't' then I doubt that it's odd.

[gtr06]

I'm just trying to ignore Beatrice's red truths and look at it from the perspective of Battler or an investigator like Oishi.

He didn't die right away in episode 1. He was taken upstairs to the servants room where Nanjo confirmed his death. Its even more obscure in the anime. In episode 3, I'm not sure D:I can't remember if Battler did see it?

Maybe he is a twin and Shannon is actually a guy or the other way around with Kanon.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by gtr06

I'm just trying to ignore Beatrice's red truths and look at it from the perspective of Battler or an investigator like Oishi.

He didn't die right away in episode 1. He was taken upstairs to the servants room where Nanjo confirmed his death. Its even more obscure in the anime. In episode 3, I'm not sure D:I can't remember if Battler did see it?

Maybe he is a twin and Shannon is actually a guy or the other way around with Kanon.

Only the parents saw Kanon's death, along with Nanjo I believe. The children weren't permitted to see the bodies, but they all saw Shannon's corpse eventually when they found George dead.

[gtr06]

heh, Nanjo and Kanon, the suspicion continues!

[Christen]

With my current rerun saved in Ep.2, Kanon is indeed suspicious. Mumbling so much about unknown things.

[gtr06]

Maybe Kinzo isn't a person anymore but a group of 5 people?

Kanon
I
Nanjo
Z
Okonogi

!!!

[luckyssol]

Originally Posted by Christen

With my current rerun saved in Ep.2, Kanon is indeed suspicious. Mumbling so much about unknown things.

My top 5 suspicious characters are:

1) Eva - She is the only character than has been confirmed 100 percent as a murderer in an arc.

2) Maria - She has to be at least an accomplice in every arc.

3) Kanon - As people have discussed, Battler never officially finds his corpse.

4) Battler - No one has really seen him very much for 6 years then he shows up and everyone dies.

5) Rudolf - Always dies too fast. Mabye the culprit finds out something that makes them decide killing Rudolf has to be done quickly.

Why not Nanjo? He has no reason to be at the family reunion. The culprit has to be threatening him in some way to fake Kinzo's status.

[Shinguji]

I can maybe understand Kanon being Nanjo, but how can he also be Okonogi? Ahh, it seems Beato failed to leave no survivors, if that's the case...

[gtr06]

Originally Posted by Ssol

My top 5 suspicious characters are:

1) Eva - She is the only character than has been confirmed 100 percent as a murderer in an arc.

2) Maria - She has to be at least an accomplice in every arc.

3) Kanon - As people have discussed, Battler never officially finds his corpse.

4) Battler - No one has really seen him very much for 6 years then he shows up and everyone dies.

5) Rudolf - Always dies too fast. Mabye the culprit finds out something that makes them decide killing Rudolf has to be done quickly.

Why not Nanjo? He has no reason to be at the family reunion. The culprit has to be threatening him in some way to fake Kinzo's status.

Nanjo, Kumasawa, and Rudolf are all suspicious. Their families got a large sum of money after everyone dies or disappears. They must have negotiated with someone. I'm thinking Kyrie's family. Imagine if someone associated with Kyrie's family found the ring first.

[gtr06]

Originally Posted by Shinguji

I can maybe understand Kanon being Nanjo, but how can he also be Okonogi? Ahh, it seems Beato failed to leave no survivors, if that's the case...

Beato will lure him to the island or at least use his hit men.

I mean she waited long enough for Ange.