2009-06-01, 02:21 | Link #8521 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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you DO notice that while we saw kallen being saved by gino
they never bothered to explain how the heck SUZAKU survived he was in his mecha, and he should have died by all rights since he 1)was out of power 2)as people keep insisting, the lancelot has not eject system he couldnt have just jumped out the back of the thing, becouse even if we FORGET about the whole "miles up in the air, almost in orbit, not enough air and too cold" bit your still left with the fact that after taking a hit to the chest that ment his KMF was seconds away from exploding, he was sitting in his cocpit like a lemon instead of scrambeling to get out the back and get some distance between him and the machine (like what lelouch did) if kallen was saved by gino then suzaku was saved by deus ex machina in the same way that gillford was P.S he didnt destroy her most powerful weapon before the last attack (i'm considering both harken strikes as one move) he DID lose the leg, but her arm was still woking and well on its way to killing him when he launcehd the harkens and the "official" last attack of the fight (the one that WASNT a ditch effort but rather an attemped to win) was a spinzaku kick VS a kallen claw strike it couldnt have been more symbolic if the had used swords and kallen was the one who won that praticular sword crossing (suzaku's broke)
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2009-06-01, 02:22 | Link #8522 | ||
Spinning Lotus
Join Date: Jul 2008
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2009-06-01, 02:35 | Link #8523 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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2009-06-01, 02:40 | Link #8524 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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she had two working arms and legs
he had one leg one arm and almost no chest at that point thats why he has that OH SHIT look on his face when firing the harkens and while i do agree that gino saved her from death i also state again suzaku was saved by plotus necesitus AKA deus ex machina he SHOULD have been killed, and they never bothered to explain how he survived when all his actions look and sound like he accepts that she just killed him
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2009-06-01, 02:41 | Link #8525 | |||
Banned
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Location: Los Angelas, California
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2009-06-01, 02:48 | Link #8526 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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the arm was in perfect working order after the kick
all it lost was the control rods for the wide range blast (useless anyway, since she was out of juice) she was about to kill him with that arm (hence why he blew it off first with tha harken) and my POINT was that you dont KNOW how he lived you see him sitting around like a lemon and explode before making a jesus like return and saving the day but we dont see how the fuck he survived that who says that he wouldnt have died himself if someone hadnt found his ejection block out side on the ledgh or that he didnt almost freeze to death before a search and rescue team found him i know that its nothing more then speculation but since the cast made it a point to make it look like he died and then have him show up without any explntion, its no more of an ass pull to say that he would have survived on his own (out side, miles up in the air) then it morbo's suggestion that kallen might have survived falling into the sea below its like you said BOTH were ment to survive and having gino catch kallen on screen covered HER rescue but we dont know HOW suzaku survived, which means that we dont know that he wouldnt have died without getting help of his own (more then likely, given his condition and situation)
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2009-06-01, 03:01 | Link #8527 | |
Banned
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2009-06-01, 03:04 | Link #8528 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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1)re-watch the fight
the arm was still working after the kick 2) Quote:
what do you mean why is it important for her to survive ?
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2009-06-01, 03:09 | Link #8529 | |
Banned
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2009-06-01, 03:15 | Link #8530 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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again
i dont understand what you mean by importent suzaku surviving might have been importent for the sake of the PLAN but that by no means insures his survival IN UNIVERSE nor makes his survival more important it only means that he AS A CHARCTER has a reason to want to win and survive the fight if your looking at it from a "forth wall breaking" POV the his survival for the sake of the plot fills the end of zero-r just as kallen's survival fills the epilouge need and, like i said before, having any character other then complete douchbags like diethard die during the final arc makes ZERO-R being a good thing, a very hard sale
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2009-06-01, 03:21 | Link #8531 | ||
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2009-06-01, 03:30 | Link #8532 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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SOME douchbags didnt die
but that wasnt the IMPORTENT part NON douchbags didnt die think about it like this would you still like lelouch if his use of kaguya and the tianxi and nuke shields got them killed ? would you still like him if he ended up getting nunnaly killed in his attack on the damocles same deal here lelouch kick starts a plan for taking over the world and he makes it a point to keep kallen in the dark when she comes right up to him to ASK him about it kallen getting killed in the final arc mean that lelouch had managed to get BOTH of his LI's killed and BOTH of them in similer situations that are indircetly HIS FAULT lelouch comes up with a crazy plan (who he keeps the girl out of to protect her) involving an unexpected but dangerus ally who ends up killing the girl to keep her from getting in their way it makes selling him as a hero much harder if he kills any likeable character who wasnt involved in his betryal since it means that he is ENTIRELY at fault for turning them into his enemy in the first place P.S and how did we get to this topic again ? the debate was about whether or not suzaku was trying to win
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Last edited by bladeofdarkness; 2009-06-01 at 03:51. |
2009-06-01, 19:24 | Link #8535 | ||||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Los Angelas, California
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I wouldn't of thought any differently of Lelouch if the entire OOBK were killed off because of the explosion (and I doubt anyone would have cared) since the entire time he wasn't trying to save anyone's life or go easy since he know his plan would have failed, Kallen and Rivalz are a different story since Kallen was gonna claw him inside the ship because she didn't understand at the time and Rivalz wasn't fighting, Nunnally as you know was Lelouch's weakness and would never kill her under the circumstance that's why he went to stop her (his final goodbye should indicate this) and to honest Kallen not being able to figure it out would be her fate not Lelouch's she manage to survive with sheer strength and luck by her side and at the time Lelouch was primarily focus on making up for his sins through Zero's Requiem. Another thing is that Lelouch was never a hero to begin with so that kind of scenario isn't at all farfetched, his tendencies were to fix his atrocities by becoming a tyrant of the world and then have Suzaku kill him to rebuild it so in the end there's nothing heroic about it, sacrificial but not heroic. Quote:
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But trust me that wasn't intended so sorry. |
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2009-06-01, 19:38 | Link #8536 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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fandumb and the ability of viewers to misunderstand what the story tellers are aiming at becouse a character looks "cool" will always be around
but look at it from a story telling POV remove lelouch's draco in leather pants status from the picture and what you are left with a character who behaves like a complete monster during the entire final arc between using women and children as human shields, mind raping untold thousends, sacrificing many of his own soldiers in tactics that show complete lack of care for human life, and telling nunnaly that she stands as an example of everything he hates and despises lelouch is already very close to the edge of becoming a totally unlikable douchbag himself where once he was walking the thin line between hero and villain, he is WELL past the point of no return now he may never have really been a "hero", but he was at least LIKABLE becouse he had people who he interacted with that MADE him likeable (nunnaly most of all) in the final arc he ends up turning those people into his enemies in the most brutal way that can be which is why he needs all the help he can GET to be able to stay likable making sure that almost no named character died becouse of his shit and that they all get happy endings becouse of him goes a long way to make him likable again
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2009-06-01, 19:43 | Link #8537 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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It was an act. He had to convince people he was the world's worst emperor in order to draw in the hatred of the people and make them embrace a more peaceful vision of the future, and he would have likely failed in this had he had gone any softer.
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2009-06-01, 19:49 | Link #8538 |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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i'm not talking about how he TALKED
THAT was an act im talking about what he DID and the things he actually DID are much worse then mearly telling nunnaly he dislikes her or blowing kallen off in ashford 1)turning thousends of people into slaves 2)using women and children as human shields 3)using his own troops as a meat shield and killing them by the hundreds in doing so 4)murdering everyone who disagrees with him choose any of those and tack them onto any other character see if you still like them after that
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2009-06-01, 19:58 | Link #8539 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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And I'm talking about the ultimate motivation behind those acts. Not that I necessarily agree with the acts themselves.
The motivation behind those acts was for himself to become hated by the whole world, and not just by Kallen or Nunnally. The real question is whether any of those acts he carried out were unnecessary for his final goal. (For one, I'll say the troop sacrifice was unnecessary.) |
2009-06-01, 20:04 | Link #8540 | |
Um-Shmum
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at GNR, bringing you the truth, no matter how bad it hurts
Age: 39
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having a motive alone does not make a character likable you know in the final arc lelouch is basiclly a villain in the vains of leto II, treize, and Ozymandias all did things that THEY deemed as necessary, but that in no way makes them any less monsterus but since he is also the protagonist, the writers want to keep him LIKABLE and making sure that non of the likable characters get killed by his crazy plan is a good way to achive that would you still like him if nunnaly died ? a simple yes or no please
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