The Novel and Manga of Haruhi Suzumiya

[PastPrime]

Originally Posted by kniteowl

I haven't reed much about peoples thoughts about Nagato's short story (Untitled) in Volume 8.

A friend of mine pointed out to me that the 3rd part could possibly be a prediction of the future, definitely a foreshadow of something that will happen in the future, probably not in volume 10 but a lot further into the future.

I didn't realize that the story Nagato wrote was aforeshadow of the future the 1st time reading it.

This is my speculation and interpretation of Untitled Part 3, the first two parts I reckon more have to do with her past and her origin.



The Black Coffin represents Death,



Assuming the Coffin represents death, who's death does it refer to?

Since the Coffin is in the center of the Club Room (Being the Literature Club) It may represent the death of the central person of the literature club, since there is only 1 member of the literature club, it probably represents Nagato's death

(Yes I'm shocked too, I don't want my favourite character to die as much as the next person :-( )

The man above the coffin could be one of two people, Kyon or Koizumi. IT also says he's smiling, MAYBE it's refering to Kozumi but why is he above the coffin?



Well the person wearing the white cloth is probably Asahina (it might be Haruhi but I don't see her apologizing for her lateness)

Makes me wonder what kind of costume she's wearing, it's definitely white.



The recital makes me think of music which leads to the Band Haruhi wanted to start after the cultural festival last year.

So assuming that this death were to occur, it would occur During or before the cultural festival.

When does the cultural festival occur in the story? Autumn/Fall? I'm not sure which month though...



Assuming these are Nagato's thoughts, she has forgotten something... which is unusual for Nagato being an All-knowing alien.



It appears Nagato wants to return to the coffin but Kyon is denying her the choice.
Assuming that the person blocking her is Kyon.



Here it says Nagato can't join the recital, does that mean she has lost her powers?

Does she feel she is no longer of use and she feels she should be erased?

Well that the best I can do in interpreting it currently, there are probably other people out there who could do a more indepth interpretation or even an entirely different interpretation.

So that's all I can extract from this story. Nagato may Die (more or less) during or before the cultural festival. Obviously Kyon will not let that happen and will prevent it or even bring her back from the dead.

So assuming that this will occur during Autumn and we are currently in Spring for the current Arc in Volume 9 & 10. Maybe this will occur somewhere around volume 14 onwards, Nagato may get a 2nd Arc to herself, It could also possibly be a Koizumi Arc becuase he did promise Kyon that.



In the Snow Mountain Chapter. It may also be in the distance 3rd might be a Kyon arc although I doubt it, you should exclude it just yet... but then again all arc revolve around Kyon, the only chapter is based on Kyon though so far is most likely the # Editor in Chief★Straight Ahead! Chapter from Volume 8 in my opinion.

That's all I got, this is all speculation though lol there's only so much you can get out of a paragraph.

So what do you guys think???

My own thought was that the coffin was the Data Entity where Nagato would be supposed to return when her mission is over. It would be the death of her as an individual. Kyon and Haruhi are preventing her from returning because she still has to observe them and I think that the recital is Kyon trying to get her to be more human. I suspect that most of the Humanoid Interfaces will not want to return.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by PastPrime

My own thought was that the coffin was the Data Entity where Nagato would be supposed to return when her mission is over. It would be the death of her as an individual. Kyon and Haruhi are preventing her from returning because she still has to observe them and I think that the recital is Kyon trying to get her to be more human. I suspect that most of the Humanoid Interfaces will not want to return.

I definitely think that the coffin is the data entity, but I don't think that the "smiling man" is Kyon. Kyon rarely smiles, whereas Koizumi is well known for doing so.

[ClockWorkAngel]

Ahh I remember this scene, let us disect this shall we? Well the black coffin may repersent death, but rather I believe this part of her story is simply an acknowledgement of her own purpose. The black coffin means the end. The end of her purpose. As I look at the Baka-tsuki translation, the white cloth was in reality a girl wearing a very cliche ghost costume. In reality I believe that the girl is Haruhi and the smiling man is Kyon. Remember that the story does not need to be parallel to the reality as we see it, really it is parallel to the world as Yuki sees it. She regards Kyon as the friendliest to her in the SOS-Dan and she imagines him as such in such a story.To not be allowed to be in the recital meant that she did not feel that she belonged to the SOS-DAN, she was different, she wasn't human, she wasn't meant to be with them, she was just observing. The we will wait might simply be the fact that Kon really wants Yuki to learn to feel, she acknowledges that, that he will wait and most likely even Haruhi will wait. And she could not be shut down or return to a "life" which she lived before the SOS-Dan as long as Kyon remained and as long as Haruhi remained. Even though Kyon himself has linked both of the people to Koizumi and Mikuru, in reality he probably knows that it was really about himself and Haruhi.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel

Ahh I remember this scene, let us disect this shall we? Well the black coffin may repersent death, but rather I believe this part of her story is simply an acknowledgement of her own purpose. The black coffin means the end. The end of her purpose. As I look at the Baka-tsuki translation, the white cloth was in reality a girl wearing a very cliche ghost costume. In reality I believe that the girl is Haruhi and the smiling man is Kyon. Remember that the story does not need to be parallel to the reality as we see it, really it is parallel to the world as Yuki sees it. She regards Kyon as the friendliest to her in the SOS-Dan and she imagines him as such in such a story.To not be allowed to be in the recital meant that she did not feel that she belonged to the SOS-DAN, she was different, she wasn't human, she wasn't meant to be with them, she was just observing. The we will wait might simply be the fact that Kon really wants Yuki to learn to feel, she acknowledges that, that he will wait and most likely even Haruhi will wait. And she could not be shut down or return to a "life" which she lived before the SOS-Dan as long as Kyon remained and as long as Haruhi remained. Even though Kyon himself has linked both of the people to Koizumi and Mikuru, in reality he probably knows that it was really about himself and Haruhi.

This is why I want to start calling the series The Endless Overspeculation of Haruhi Suzumiya.

Seriously, I know Kyon's not exactly that reliable of a narrator, but don't grasp at straws that aren't even hinted at in the text.

[ClockWorkAngel]

Ahh but we simply can't under estimate Kyon now can we? Though Kyon is not very book smart, we know that he's intelligent in other ways. As a narrator he quite bias at times. But we can't all his narration unreliable as he is really the only narrator! There's no one we can compare him to after all.

However my arguement is justified by logic, or in other occasions lack of. Without Haruhi, what exactely will happen to Yuki? We already know that's she was created to observer her, and some may say that's her purpose, without Haruhi or without a purpose she would most likely be disposed of, we can't expect the entity to be merciful can we? If something has no purpose in the eyes of a near omnipotent being, we can't really expect mercy. After all if the entity can't profit off Yuki, then Yuki doesn't need to exist.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel

Ahh but we simply can't under estimate Kyon now can we? Though Kyon is not very book smart, we know that he's intelligent in other ways. As a narrator he quite bias at times. But we can't all his narration unreliable as he is really the only narrator! There's no one we can compare him to after all.

However my arguement is justified by logic, or in other occasions lack of. Without Haruhi, what exactely will happen to Yuki? We already know that's she was created to observer her, and some may say that's her purpose, without Haruhi or without a purpose she would most likely be disposed of, we can't expect the entity to be merciful can we? If something has no purpose in the eyes of a near omnipotent being, we can't really expect mercy. After all if the entity can't profit off Yuki, then Yuki doesn't need to exist.

I'd think that, after the events of Vol.4, the Entity would know not to get rid of Yuki, or they'd have a very angry Kyon on their hands. And since Kyon can unleash God with a sentence...

I still think that the characters in Yuki's story are exactly who they appear to be: Koizumi and Mikuru. One of the things we don't understand is the relationships between those three, and it'd be interesting to find out exactly what they do when Kyon and Haruhi aren't around.

[ClockWorkAngel]

Well of course that's the other possibility, really we don't know what their relationship really are. Though we are know that they were all aware of one another before hand, but really there has never been any story really expanding on their relationships, on the relationships between each individual person and Kyon and Haruhi.

But we can sort of of think of it as two ways; she can't leave Kyon and Hauhi alone in their hands, or maybe something else. There's alot of way to interept it and we don't have any real definite and consistent hints to tell us.

[siber222000]

contains little spoiler

Spoiler:

wow i read newest chap translated to date *by people* and finally a new content! mikuru telling kyon about how she have to act accordingly because shes from the future and etc... !

[Sol Falling]

...new...chapter? I'll check it out, I guess.

[RandomGuy]

I tried requesting a new thread on this topic, but since no one responded (and since I'm basing this mostly on my reading), I thought I'd post it here instead.

So, I’ve read through the first Haruhi novel in Japanese, as well as watched the corresponding episodes in the anime (yes, in chronological order). I have found it much more entertaining than I originally assumed, largely due to the strength of its characters and plot (which I didn't entirely expect, considering the art style). But for all that, there’s something that’s been bothering me: Why is everyone speaking Standard Japanese?

As is noted in this forum’s FAQ, the series is unambiguously set in (a lightly fictionalized) Nishinomiya, Hyogo Prefecture, in the same region as the author’s current residence. While the evidence for this is primarily in place names in the novels, the anime follows suit by dutifully portraying actual locations in and around Nishinomiya, as well as passing Hankyu Railway trains, etc. Nishinomiya lies directly in between the cities of Osaka and Kobe, and is well-known as the home of the Hanshin Tigers (in fact, the baseball game Haruhi went to as an elementary schooler was probably held at Koshien Stadium). Yet for all of this, there is scarcely any Kansai-ben to be heard.

At this point, I should probably mention that I live in Osaka Prefecture right now, and the local dialect is an inescapable fact of life that you need to understand (if not use) if you want to know what others are saying. It’s not so bad if you’re a foreigner since most people will switch to the standard if absolutely necessary, but locals communicate with each other almost exclusively in dialect. Because of this fact, it is extremely jarring for a story set on the edge of Osaka Bay to contain pretty much none of the local speech whatsoever.

Now, occasionally, Kyon says something that borders on Kansai-ben: chiefly things like wakaran, shiran, dekin, etc. But while this negative conjugation is used more frequently in Kansai, it is not exclusive to the region, and more unambiguous examples are not to be found. This can easily be compared to the writing of Akiyuki Nosaka (also from Hyogo Prefecture), whose most famous short stories, “Grave of the Fireflies” and “American Hijiki”, are written almost exclusively in dialect.

This being the case, the lack of Kansai-ben in the Haruhi Suzumiya series seems to be a conscious decision on the part of the author, but I’m not sure I understand the reason why. Is it solely to make it more readable/accessible to readers from other parts of the country, or are there other factors at play here that I haven’t considered?

[Hedd]

Based purely on speculation I would have to say it's a similar reason why an ongoing joke about Robin Hood's lack of accent in movies is still running. The author probably wanted to push the actual characters more then the region they came from to allow more people to associate with them. While I'm not familiar with regional accent sigmas in japan, theres a bit of steriotype towards certain american accents. Something like this could also be a factor. Though once again at this point I'm only speculating.

[FatPianoBoy]

So that's where Nishinomiya is. It does seem a bit odd now, especially since Haruhi is your stereotypical Osakan turned up to 11
I would expect Standard from the likes of Mikuru and Nagato and possibly Koizumi, but the rest of the cast persistently speaking in Standard is a bit of a stretch. I suppose we'll have to ask Tanigawa about it

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Hedd

Based purely on speculation I would have to say it's a similar reason why an ongoing joke about Robin Hood's lack of accent in movies is still running. The author probably wanted to push the actual characters more then the region they came from to allow more people to associate with them. While I'm not familiar with regional accent stigmas in japan, theres a bit of steriotype towards certain american accents. Something like this could also be a factor. Though once again at this point I'm only speculating.

That could certainly be a point. As parodied in series like Azumanga Daioh, Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi, Lovely Complex, et al., there are certain strong stereotypes associated with the region and its dialect that generally center around differences in humor and manners from the nation's capital. At the same time, however, it is hard to completely suspend disbelief to think that this is how the characters would "actually talk," much as I would balk at seeing the Beatles exchanging their lower-class Liverpudlian Scouse for the Queen's English (in anything other than jest), or Frank Sinatra with a plain Upper Midwestern accent instead his Hoboken, New Jersey one.

That said, the very inseparability of region and dialect probably makes it difficult for the series to be written in Kansai-ben without making it a story about Nishinomiya, Hyogo, instead of a story about Haruhi Suzumiya. So, for the purposes of argument, maybe we should assume that as the narrator, Kyon is "translating" everyone's dialogue (including his own) into Standard Japanese, for the sake of getting his story out there?

[Louie Louie]

YAY!!! everyone!!! i just read something about the release of the 10th volume....

it says that it's gonna be published on the january 31st... i don't know if it's real... haha.. at last we have a release date of our long awaited 10th volume... not translated though...

here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sur...aruhi_Suzumiya

YAY!!!

[ClockWorkAngel]

The citation looks legit. Well this is a good day for the fans then! Hopefully the good people at baka-tsuki will be able to pick the story up when it comes out .

[Tyabann]

First off, as for the whole Kansai-ben thing... doesn't Tsuruya speak some of the dialect in the anime? She IS voiced by Yuki Matsuoka, after all...

Besides, aren't there dialect differences between Osaka and Hyoga in any case?

Also:

Originally Posted by Louie Louie

YAY!!! everyone!!! i just read something about the release of the 10th volume....

it says that it's gonna be published on the january 31st... i don't know if it's real... haha.. at last we have a release date of our long awaited 10th volume... not translated though...

here's the link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sur...aruhi_Suzumiya

YAY!!!

Okay... That's just weird. The kind folks at Baka-Tsuki already proved that this was a fake and the work of a wiki troll, yet, when I click on your link, the edit is still there.

Yet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...aruhi_Suzumiya

When I go through there, it's back to "the release date has yet to be confirmed." WTF?

[Louie Louie]

yeah... i found out that one too... that's why i said "i don't know if its real"... they are different links i think... hehe...

[ClockWorkAngel]

Hmm... That shouldn't be right then... Once again we need someone to look over the citations, I don't know jap myself so I can't really prove anything. Once again we should all be careful. But the problem is that if it's indeed fake, someone who mods the page should have correctly it.

@Kaisos the links look different it's probably because of the fact that the first one is a link to the specific novel and contains the list while the other is a list of the entire series. But really that shouldn't be happening...

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by ClockWorkAngel

Hmm... That shouldn't be right then... Once again we need someone to look over the citations, I don't know jap myself so I can't really prove anything. Once again we should all be careful. But the problem is that if it's indeed fake, someone who mods the page should have correctly it.

@Kaisos the links look different it's probably because of the fact that the first one is a link to the specific novel and contains the list while the other is a list of the entire series. But really that shouldn't be happening...

They link to the SAME PAGE.

And yes, it's fake. There'd be an announcement on the official site if it was real.

[RandomGuy]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

First off, as for the whole Kansai-ben thing... doesn't Tsuruya speak some of the dialect in the anime? She IS voiced by Yuki Matsuoka, after all...

Besides, aren't there dialect differences between Osaka and Hyoga in any case?

From what I know of Tsuruya (through the audio drama I've listened to, since I haven't gotten to her appearance in the novels/anime yet), she has slightly odd pronunciation on certain words (attributed at least by fans to her snaggletooth), as well as using unique vocabulary like "megas", but that's not really anything like Kansai-ben. It's more, well... Tsuruya-ben.

As for Hyogo-ben, it does have its differences from Osaka, but it's still recognizable as a dialect of the region. And even if it were more substantially different, there's still no conclusive presence of Kansai-ben at all, let alone the Hyogo dialect, in what I've read/seen so far.