[Manga] Naruto Chapter 616 Discussion Thread

[TimeMask]

Originally Posted by El_Negro

Is it just me or does Ino still love Sasuke even though she finds out he's a evil s.o.b??

The flashback hinted Ino may still have feelings for Sasuke. Like when Sakura remembered Sasuke when that guy gave Sakura a love letter back when a Zetsu was pretending to be Neji and Sakura punched the Zetsu.

[gibits]

Originally Posted by Eragon

Please no revivals. Just no. Let people who are dead stay dead. Its hard as it is for Kishi to develop existing characters(or give them panel time), don't want to see more "ZOMG he's so powerful!!" characters just for the sake it.

I agree with this post. Too many revives as it is makes death cheap.

[AC-Phoenix]

hmmm Maybe this has already been aksed and things but since we are already at revivals...
Is it certain Jiraya is dead?
I've been thinking about this for a while now, we never saw his corpse and when Kabuto resurrected all the strong Ninjas Only 3 he could have known were missing:
Jiraya and Naruto's parents.
The latter two were part sealed, but yeah what about the old man

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

I think you're taking it a little too far. I only suggested Minato and Sarutobi to be resurrected because they have never been resurrected before.

Big things don't happen just because it seems like a good idea, the author always has a good plan when he makes such big decisions. I mean resurrecting the 4 hokages is a big thing, so it has to have some profound impact on the plot. Right now we have a war arc which is really extreme and full of massive powerups and even side character being kage level. So in this sort of shonen manga where each new story arc has to be even more extreme and have even more powerful enemies and always raising power level, we have to make the question how can Kishimoto do something even more extreme than this war arc. Because right now it seems quite clear that Tobito will perish at the end of this war, Orochimaru is now just a weakling, so then we have Madara and Sasuke only and that doesn't seem enough. If we add to that the 4 hokages and maybe even the Sage of 6th path that would allow to raise the intensity of battles even beyond the current.

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

I remember reading before that when you revive somebody, you can't un summon them and summon them back again.

Kabuto was summoning and unsummoning them left and right. I think you meant if the summoned soul was once bound to the dead corpse with Edo Tensei and then it was released and went back to the other world you can't bind it again with Edo Tensei. But the 4 hokages never went back to the world of the dead, they are supposed to be sealed inside the death god so technically they can be brought back if the seal is broken somehow.

Originally Posted by El_Negro

Is it just me or does Ino still love Sasuke even though she finds out he's a evil s.o.b??

For me that was the only stupid part of this chapter. Why the hell must Kishimoto put this Sasuke guy even in the most intimate scenes where the dying father and his daughter are talking the last time. It's like Sasuke was a super-playboy who could mess up every girl's mind so much that no matter what he does they will think and dream about him even while they talk with their dying parents. I could even accept that in Sakura's case, but Ino wasn't even in their team, last time she was close to Sasuke was in the ninja academy. And by "close" i mean they were in the same classroom, and that's it, they never had any adventure together.

[b1gdawg]

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

hmmm Maybe this has already been aksed and things but since we are already at revivals...
Is it certain Jiraya is dead?
I've been thinking about this for a while now, we never saw his corpse and when Kabuto resurrected all the strong Ninjas Only 3 he could have known were missing:
Jiraya and Naruto's parents.
The latter two were part sealed, but yeah what about the old man

Kabuto explained that he couldn't revive Jiraiya because his body was crushed by the bottom of the river he died in (complete bs but seeing Jiraiya as an enemy woulda complicated a lot of things).

[Artimus_Prime]

so naruto is noooot gonna give Lee any chakra?!? it'll be like opening the eight gates without the risk. lets go Lee!! i hope he is part of the plan

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by james0246

The finality and sacrifice of the technique is something that makes it so 'ultimate'. That's not even going into the whole symbolic nature of the technique (the ultimate sacrifice to protect the ones you love), and reversing the technique would instantly make the symbolic nature of the jutsu meaningless (not to mention it would be kind of stupid if the previous Hokages never had their village use the reverse-technique to end their torment).

i think their ultimate sacrifice and symbolism would still be valid. if the scroll does contain the death god's secrets then it's probable that nobody before orochimaru knew that there was a way to unseal people. that would explain why the hokages never asked anyone to save them. so far only hiruzen, minato and most likely orochimaru know the technique at all. hiruzen even went so far as to throw it in orochimaru's face that it was a technique that he didn't know at the time. orochimaru is the type to immediately start studying something like that, not only to get his soul arms back, but for his own pride and complete knowledge of ninjutsu which is his primary goal

[Artful Dodger]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i think their ultimate sacrifice and symbolism would still be valid. if the scroll does contain the death god's secrets then it's probable that nobody before orochimaru knew that there was a way to unseal people. that would explain why the hokages never asked anyone to save them. so far only hiruzen, minato and most likely orochimaru know the technique at all. hiruzen even went so far as to throw it in orochimaru's face that it was a technique that he didn't know at the time. orochimaru is the type to immediately start studying something like that, not only to get his soul arms back, but for his own pride and complete knowledge of ninjutsu which is his primary goal

There is something I never fully understood about Orochimaru, can he not use any ninjitsu without his "soul arms" (and why not)? Is this the reason he is portrayed weak after his fight with Hiruzen?
If thats the case, Sasuke may put a final end to him once they deal with this death god character, as they probably wouldn't want someone like him retrieving his arms, and all his power again. I doubt he'll come out of this little trip alive, Kishimoto really seems bent on giving him embarrasing losses.

[b1gdawg]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Kabuto was summoning and unsummoning them left and right. I think you meant if the summoned soul was once bound to the dead corpse with Edo Tensei and then it was released and went back to the other world you can't bind it again with Edo Tensei. But the 4 hokages never went back to the world of the dead, they are supposed to be sealed inside the death god so technically they can be brought back if the seal is broken somehow.

Say the scroll is something completely different (can't really imagine something else that would make them rule the world), I really do believe Hashirama will be involved in the future of the story. Madara was Hashirama's b*tch, and the strongest ninja of all time. Madara had to alternate his plan just because Hashirama was alive. I think Hashirama is still alive, and it's gonna have a lot to do with that flower Madara's been growing. If he truly is the greatest ninja he knew that Madara was still alive and planned ahead to stop him in the future.

Plus, look at Madara right now, he's not breaking a sweat whether it's against the shinobi alliance or the 5 kage. Even this chapter, when it looks like the Alliance is doing something, he's smiling. No way anybody other than Hashirama can stop him

[james0246]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i think their ultimate sacrifice and symbolism would still be valid. if the scroll does contain the death god's secrets then it's probable that nobody before orochimaru knew that there was a way to unseal people. that would explain why the hokages never asked anyone to save them. so far only hiruzen, minato and most likely orochimaru know the technique at all. hiruzen even went so far as to throw it in orochimaru's face that it was a technique that he didn't know at the time. orochimaru is the type to immediately start studying something like that, not only to get his soul arms back, but for his own pride and complete knowledge of ninjutsu which is his primary goal

What if the death god was actually Rikudou-Sennin? That would be valid enough justification for his reappearance in the story...

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Artful Dodger

There is something I never fully understood about Orochimaru, can he not use any ninjitsu without his "soul arms" (and why not)? Is this the reason he is portrayed weak after his fight with Hiruzen?

it is a little convoluted but i think he can only use summonings and mouth oriented techniques. in his fight with 4 tails naruto those are all he uses. i think that any techniques that require hand seals are off limits. when he got a new body he was able to move his arms again, but i think the hand seals were still not available

Originally Posted by james0246

What if the death god was actually Rikudou-Sennin? That would be valid enough justification for his reappearance in the story...

heh i've thought about that, but it just seems too weird. it's also possible that the death god (who or whatever it is) is 'the one who knows everything'

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

Madara was Hashirama's b*tch,

That was in past, but since then Madara acquired Hashirama's powers and by that he even awakened the rinnegan, plus he is now an immortal Edo Tensei. So if they had their battle now Madara would most likely win.

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

If he truly is the greatest ninja he knew that Madara was still alive and planned ahead to stop him in the future.

He was the strongest, but that doesn't mean he would have such plans. The good guys have faith that their followers will succeed and even surpass them.

Originally Posted by b1gdawg

No way anybody other than Hashirama can stop him

I think even the Edo Tensei Hashirama can't stop him right now, Madara is already the guy with the rinnegan, not just an Uchiha. Also note that this manga is called Naruto, so we can have a pretty good idea of who will stop Madara in the end

Right now it seems that both Madara and Sasuke could be the final evil boss to fight Naruto. I would like to see Madara as the final boss and Sasuke allied with Naruto to fight him, but i guess that the majority of fans would prefer Sasuke as the final boss. If Kishimoto goes for Sasuke then he has to further power him up. One way to do it is to give him the 4 hokages as Edo Tensei summons and also let him awaken the rinnegan somehow, otherwise Edo-Madara remains clearly stronger than Sasuke.

[Ulquiorra]

I'll give Kishi his due as a comedy writer. That Shikaku line made me laugh out loud. It remind me of an old Mad TV skit where you can hire a cleaning service to show up, if you end up dying, and destroy all your porn and other embarrassing things; you don't want your family to find out about.

Since his dad is a dirty old man maybe it foreshadows Shikamaru will stop acting asexual and bang Temari at some point?

Lee crying over Neji was also hilarious. Was that suppose to be touching?

Obito and Madara bore me as villains so I hope Shikaku's plan works.

Did someone say they rather a stupid NaruHina attack than this? I am going to vomit. I guess Team 10 reminded Hinata where she is on the teenage character pecking order.

It goes like this.

Naruto/Sasuke
.
.
Sakura
Shikamaru
Gaara
Choji
Ino
Sai
The Ghost of Neji
Hinata
Lee
Suigetsu
Karin
Juugo
Temari/Kankuro
Kiba
Bug Guy
Tenten

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

For me that was the only stupid part of this chapter. Why the hell must Kishimoto put this Sasuke guy even in the most intimate scenes where the dying father and his daughter are talking the last time. It's like Sasuke was a super-playboy who could mess up every girl's mind so much that no matter what he does they will think and dream about him even while they talk with their dying parents. I could even accept that in Sakura's case, but Ino wasn't even in their team, last time she was close to Sasuke was in the ninja academy. And by "close" i mean they were in the same classroom, and that's it, they never had any adventure together.

He can't help it. Kishi loves him so everyone else has to. It makes zero sense and ruins the development Ino has been getting. Ino had nothing to do with Sasuke. Sasuke doesn't even know Ino is alive. At least Sakura had some interaction. This just proves that Kishi has no clue about girls.

I actually thought he might of been building Choji up so Ino saw him in a different light. But now he is back to being a fatso. And Ino will die alone since Sakura is destined to annoy Sasuke for eternity.

Originally Posted by The Small One

BTW, how comes Konoha looks so good, after the Juubi killed the heads of the alliance?

It was Kumo that was destroyed.

[MAX_COLA_POWER!]

I wonder how many people will give Obito credit as a villain now when even the Uchiha founder he was trying to revive is giving props to the kid that's trying to stop him? Hell, he even went like, umm, HELLO!?, I WAS LIKE THAT ONCE! IT DOESN'T TURN OUT GOOD! I'M PRETTY POWERFUL!, but everyone was like, WOW! LOOK WHAT NARUTO CAN DO WITH THE KYUBI'S CHAKRA! AMAZING!

[Kyero Fox]

Originally Posted by Ulquiorra

I'll give Kishi his due as a comedy writer. That Shikaku line made me laugh out loud. It remind me of an old Mad TV skit where you can hire a cleaning service to show up, if you end up dying, and destroy all your porn and other embarrassing things; you don't want your family to find out about.

Since his dad is a dirty old man maybe it foreshadows Shikamaru will stop acting asexual and bang Temari at some point?

Lee crying over Neji was also hilarious. Was that suppose to be touching?

Obito and Madara bore me as villains so I hope Shikaku's plan works.

Did someone say they rather a stupid NaruHina attack than this? I am going to vomit. I guess Team 10 reminded Hinata where she is on the teenage character pecking order.

It goes like this.

Naruto/Sasuke
.
.
Sakura
Shikamaru
Gaara
Choji
Ino
Sai
The Ghost of Neji
Hinata
Lee
Suigetsu
Karin
Juugo
Temari/Kankuro
Kiba
Bug Guy
Tenten


He can't help it. Kishi loves him so everyone else has to. It makes zero sense and ruins the development Ino has been getting. Ino had nothing to do with Sasuke. Sasuke doesn't even know Ino is alive. At least Sakura had some interaction. This just proves that Kishi has no clue about girls.

I actually thought he might of been building Choji up so Ino saw him in a different light. But now he is back to being a fatso. And Ino will die alone since Sakura is destined to annoy Sasuke for eternity.


It was Kumo that was destroyed.

Why dont you just stop reading it and change your sig?

[gibits]

I'd rather see a Naruhina attack than what we got tbh. Kurama giving out chakra willy nilly? More Neiji remembrance? More of Ino-Shinka-Chouji combo? I'm getting tired of it, Naruhina combo would at least move things along and be different.

Ino still being in love with Sasuke was terrible. I always thought she did that just to piss off Sakura but now it seems to be "real". Way to ruin what little devolopment she had. Has she even spoken to him or had any interaction with him throughout the series?

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by itachi-san314

i think their ultimate sacrifice and symbolism would still be valid. if the scroll does contain the death god's secrets then it's probable that nobody before orochimaru knew that there was a way to unseal people. that would explain why the hokages never asked anyone to save them. so far only hiruzen, minato and most likely orochimaru know the technique at all. hiruzen even went so far as to throw it in orochimaru's face that it was a technique that he didn't know at the time. orochimaru is the type to immediately start studying something like that, not only to get his soul arms back, but for his own pride and complete knowledge of ninjutsu which is his primary goal

while i like the idea of the manga not ending before the hokages are released, why do we think sasuke and co will be the ones to do it? he currently hates the senju way of life so i dont understand how it benefits him to release the best of them...
on the flipside im having difficulty imagining who else it could be.
i guess i wouldnt mind it being some really old school member of the uzumaki clan. someone who "knows everything" has to predate quite a bit of history...

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime

while i like the idea of the manga not ending before the hokages are released, why do we think sasuke and co will be the ones to do it? he currently hates the senju way of life so i dont understand how it benefits him to release the best of them...

sasuke doesnt really have a side except his own. he doesn't side with itachi, obito or naruto, just his own ideal memory of the uchiha clan and what he wants to make of it. he is however open to listening to anyone's perspective. he's listened intently to all 3 of those defining characters so why not hashirama as well?

hashirama is dead so it's not like he'll just be revived and fully capable of fighting sasuke and orochimaru. it will most likely be similar to ET or talking in some kind of spirit dimension where there isn't any physical threat. not only does the knowledge benefit sasuke, but using the hokages in a similar fashion to ET would be a huge advantage for him. if that happens, my guess would be that tobirama breaks the technique since he is the one who invented it.

I know people are tired of ET, so am I, but it's clearly the route kishi has gone with the story. might as well bring back everyone of consequence at this point. he cant make death any less meaningful now

[Ulquiorra]

Originally Posted by gibits

I'd rather see a Naruhina attack than what we got tbh. Kurama giving out chakra willy nilly? More Neiji remembrance? More of Ino-Shinka-Chouji combo? I'm getting tired of it, Naruhina combo would at least move things along and be different.

A NaruHina attack would have imploded the fandom. We've seen enough of Hinata as main heroine.

At least Super Ino-Shika-Cho makes some sense if they are following Shikaku's plan. What doesn't make sense is why Madara just doesn't kill Shikamaru now? You know, the guy leading the effort to hold the most powerful thing that ever existed? You kill him and the Juubi is free. But I am sure Madara will make a bored joke instead. And he wonders why he always loses.

Originally Posted by gibits

Ino still being in love with Sasuke was terrible. I always thought she did that just to piss off Sakura but now it seems to be "real". Way to ruin what little devolopment she had. Has she even spoken to him or had any interaction with him throughout the series?

Just watch. Karin will also still be in love with Sasuke. But at least Karin and Sakura actually spent time with Sasuke and talked to him. Ino is just a joke.

[solidguy]

Ino still being inlove probably has something to do with Sasuke's return in the future. Atleast I hope so