(L+CR) Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Season 3

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by stray

No, I really disliked White Album 2 but its probably most similar to Oregairu as far as trying to keep a 'power trio' together. Just in the Introductory Chapter it went straight into cheating pretty much for the sake of cheating and followed it up with a "please don't leave me" before going deeper and deeper down the rabbit hole in the main game. I'm not fundamentally against cheating or netorare but I am fairly sensitive to it and incredibly selective about it.

What exactly about WA2 do you classify as cheating or NTR?

Spoiler for White Album 2:

Would you classify Setsuna interfering after Kazusa's first kiss with Haruki as NTR? Technically Haruki and Kazusa loved one another before Setsuna came on the scene too, so I'm not sure who's cheating on whom here.

Originally Posted by stray

I mean first off an author should never let an audience dictate their work, but that said I don't understand why anyone would put shipping ahead of storytelling to begin with. I literally can't appreciate a ship if I don't like how the story plays out.

An author doesn't need to let an audience dictate his/her work, s/he can just see which way the wind is blowing (i.e., how many fans of each ship there are) and decide to make the most sales by pandering to the fans that will buy the most books.

Originally Posted by stray

I don't know what a "true harem" end is BTW... I've always understood "harem end" being essentially inconclusive since even stuff like eroges are monogamous, with some exceptions here and there. Evenicle was a good time. But I tend to dislike harems in general with rare exceptions.

A "true harem" ending is a polygamous ending where one protagonist loves and decides to stay in romantic relationships with more than one character at a time, and the other characters are okay with that. If you remember the School Days VN, there was the "Two Lovers" ending where the main love triangle decides to stay together and share the protagonist together. I'm sure there are some Oregairu fans who would have preferred that kind of ending for the main "power trio."

[stray]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

What exactly about WA2 do you classify as cheating or NTR?

Spoiler for White Album 2:

Would you classify Setsuna interfering after Kazusa's first kiss with Haruki as NTR? Technically Haruki and Kazusa loved one another before Setsuna came on the scene too, so I'm not sure who's cheating on whom here.

Its been a while so I'm fuzzy on the specifics of Introductory Chapter but generally speaking I would say that if you're dating someone and your dick happens to slip inside someone else its cheating, full stop. Any kind of justification or rationalization is just sugar coating the obvious.

If there is not any sort of commitment though... anything goes. Doesn't matter what someone else's feelings might be if they're not communicated.

An author doesn't need to let an audience dictate his/her work, s/he can just see which way the wind is blowing (i.e., how many fans of each ship there are) and decide to make the most sales by pandering to the fans that will buy the most books.

That's not really viable for anything but a harem (or harem style triangle) though... you need the advantage of an indecisive MC to really drag things out to be able to get the pulse of the audience to begin with. Maybe some do that, especially those with long running harems, but it seems pretty limiting.

There's something to be said for writers who are willing to piss off half (or more) of their fanbase with an ending too... I think the "right" ending will always be better than the "popular" ending, especially over time.

A "true harem" ending is a polygamous ending where one protagonist loves and decides to stay in romantic relationships with more than one character at a time, and the other characters are okay with that. If you remember the School Days VN, there was the "Two Lovers" ending where the main love triangle decides to stay together and share the protagonist together. I'm sure there are some Oregairu fans who would have preferred that kind of ending for the main "power trio."

Polyamory is probably a better word... its also a tag in a few places if you want to look up poly manga or VN. Polygamy is specifically marriage to multiple partners.

I'm not for or against poly relationships but I have yet to really see a decent representation of it. Two Lovers was entertaining but it was just Sekai and Kotonoha talking outside their suite, Makoto didn't even appear. And the poly manga I know of just pile on more girls just because. I'm not sure I feel like it fits with Oregairu but... maybe?

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Hell no. Right now, you're talking like you don't know how that kind of relationship works IRL.

The point being: nobody from our trio wants to cut off their friendship, yet you call it bad writing when it's not.

Your comment doesn't make any sense. A show is considered a Harem when you have more than two girls who are seriously pining for the MC. Oregairu only has two, so it's a triangle, not a harem. Also, do you actually know what a "Harem ending" is? A Harem ending is where the protags gets to have most of the girls. Example:

Spoiler for Anime with Harem ending:

Dual Parallel Trouble Adventure
Tenchi Muyo & many of its spin offs.

By "in 8-man's place" in my comment I mean after his pledge to Yukinon, not before. There's simply no reason to cut off Yui as a bestfriend & vice versa. I doubt most guys will act the same way as 8-man if you put them at the beginning of the story or this season alone. So, the rest of your argument is invalid in this context.

Yui's family is not rich, so 8-man would still have to wear the pants in the family. With Yukinoshita family, they're filfthy rich and Yukinon will inherit the family business and Hachiman can have his dream job since season 1: a house-husband .

I doubt Yukino's mother would let him . In fact, I'm pretty sure they'd make him work his ass off fixing all their problems... The 8-Man way.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I also want to address this comment in earnest.Shizuka never begged for 8-man's romantic-love, because she was aware of her place as a teacher enough not to be romantically/sexually involved with her students (thank God). And 8-man is perfectly aware of this by saying that he would've took her as a bride if only he was 10 years older . I don't know about the novel.

Is what he said, but we also have at least one instance where Hachiman clearly thought "Someone please marry her fast, before I give in."

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She was joking (I hope...) but she has begged him to marry her at least once...

I took the first few times as a joke, while taking the one presented in this season more seriously, since hachiman's reaction was what he was thinking at that moment.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by stray

Its been a while so I'm fuzzy on the specifics of Introductory Chapter but generally speaking I would say that if you're dating someone and your dick happens to slip inside someone else its cheating, full stop. Any kind of justification or rationalization is just sugar coating the obvious.

If there is not any sort of commitment though... anything goes. Doesn't matter what someone else's feelings might be if they're not communicated.

I think I'll chalk it up to the writer's style of making love triangles then. Maruto Fumiaki has been known to offer plenty of shipper-bait in his VN stories. Still, do you consider what Setsuna did in the Introductory Chapter as a form of NTR?

Originally Posted by stray

That's not really viable for anything but a harem (or harem style triangle) though... you need the advantage of an indecisive MC to really drag things out to be able to get the pulse of the audience to begin with. Maybe some do that, especially those with long running harems, but it seems pretty limiting.

There are plenty of harem stories with indecisive MCs, aren't there?

Originally Posted by stray

Polyamory is probably a better word... its also a tag in a few places if you want to look up poly manga or VN. Polygamy is specifically marriage to multiple partners.

Polyamory works too as a term to describe these relationships, but sometimes marriage is involved, like in Shinmai Maou no Testament.

Originally Posted by stray

I'm not for or against poly relationships but I have yet to really see a decent representation of it. Two Lovers was entertaining but it was just Sekai and Kotonoha talking outside their suite, Makoto didn't even appear. And the poly manga I know of just pile on more girls just because. I'm not sure I feel like it fits with Oregairu but... maybe?

What would be a decent representation of poly relationships to you then? As for "piling one more girls," that's probably a scattershot approach intended to try and bring in more fans of female character archetypes more than anything else.

[stray]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

I think I'll chalk it up to the writer's style of making love triangles then. Maruto Fumiaki has been known to offer plenty of shipper-bait in his VN stories. Still, do you consider what Setsuna did in the Introductory Chapter as a form of NTR?

I'm absolutely not a shipper so when bait takes priority over story I begin to check out. That said though I don't really remember what Setsuna did aside from confessing first which I don't think is even remotely NTR. If you consider that wrong you should probably be faulting Yukinon for responding to 8's 'confession' without talking to Yui first, especially with Yui's "wish" still in play.

I brought this up in another post regarding Oregairu but its true of White Album as well -- when it comes down to it the girls in the trio are mostly held together by common activities; they really aren't best friends or even that great of friends.

There are plenty of harem stories with indecisive MCs, aren't there?

Maybe this isn't obvious from what I've already written but harems really aren't (or even compatible with) romance. Unless you're content with porn, comedy, and waifu wars you're going to be disappointed 99% of the time. For an actual romance to be driven by public opinion wouldn't really work.

Polyamory works too as a term to describe these relationships, but sometimes marriage is involved, like in Shinmai Maou no Testament.

What would be a decent representation of poly relationships to you then? As for "piling one more girls," that's probably a scattershot approach intended to try and bring in more fans of female character archetypes more than anything else.

Polygamy kind of requires a fantasy setting, because its either illegal or frowned upon in most places. I don't remember much about Testament, but if manga is your thing Kanojo mo Kanojo is kind of interesting for now. Same mangaka as (the underrated) Aho Girl so there's a lot of yelling for some reason, but its the closest thing to a polycule I think I've seen.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by stray

I brought this up in another post regarding Oregairu but its true of White Album as well -- when it comes down to it the girls in the trio are mostly held together by common activities; they really aren't best friends or even that great of friends.

Setsuna in WA2 tries to be Kazusa's best friend as far as I can remember, which is different from Oregairu.

Originally Posted by stray

Maybe this isn't obvious from what I've already written but harems really aren't (or even compatible with) romance. Unless you're content with porn, comedy, and waifu wars you're going to be disappointed 99% of the time. For an actual romance to be driven by public opinion wouldn't really work. Polygamy kind of requires a fantasy setting, because its either illegal or frowned upon in most places. I don't remember much about Testament, but if manga is your thing Kanojo mo Kanojo is kind of interesting for now. Same mangaka as (the underrated) Aho Girl so there's a lot of yelling for some reason, but its the closest thing to a polycule I think I've seen.

Maybe fantasy elements are required, at least, because Shinmai Maou No Testament takes place in modern Japan but with fantasy elements and more than one plane of existence. The currently-released volumes have all been translated into English by now, so if you want to check out how it handles a polyamorous relationship you'd do well to read it (the protagonist marries every one of his harem members).

[Marcus H.]

Finally caught up on the show! Wow, that's a doozy. Also painful.

The prom finally concludes, and even the "fake" Saikyo Project was given the green light by Yukino's mom. Cred points for Yukino there, although Haruno seems to be on the fence about Yukino's willingness to inherit her father's business. In any case, Haruno reveals that part of the reason why was because she was being groomed as an heiress for 20 years and she implies she is unsure of Yukino's judgment. (This also removes any credibility to Haruno's "codependency" remark earlier. Hiratsuka-sensei would also shut that remark down through her private talk with Hachiman.)

Meanwhile, the whole "game" involving the Club ends on a painful note even before it could officially close. Yui has been using the game to desperately hold on to their times together, all while making a self-sacrifice of her feelings to Hachiman by allowing him to grant Yukino's wish, which is ironically to grant Yui's wishes. It all ends with Hachiman promising to improve himself but without a guarantee that Yui may be still by his side when that time comes. Oof.

And after all this, through Hiratsuka-sensei's "final push", Hachiman took the opportunity to speak out his sentiments to Yukino. Roundabout in their own respective ways, Hachiman and Yukino reaffirm their feelings to each other. Now all that's left is a priest to make things official...

PS: I felt like the Saikyo Project meeting was a "declaration of intent" between Hachiman and Yukino. The whole dialogue screamed "we're going to get together and we want to receive your approval of it".

[Stark700]

Final episode aired today!

Looks like the finale served as a way to celebrate the franchise and the characters altogether as they grew up.

This even includes Hachiman who is more relaxed at a social event. Lol, the tease by Haruno though. We also got the dances, music, etc. Honestly, I'm not surprised to see and hear the confession coming from Yukino herself to Hachiman. It's been building up for a long time and I guess Yui knew what to expect ever since early on in this season.

9/10. Wonderful season like the previous ones. I'll miss this franchise for sure.

[Ruki0089]

In the third years, our rotten eyes protagonist finally got himself the infamous the main character seat AKA the window seat.... Hachiman finally he become real MC

[stray]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

Maybe fantasy elements are required, at least, because Shinmai Maou No Testament takes place in modern Japan but with fantasy elements and more than one plane of existence. The currently-released volumes have all been translated into English by now, so if you want to check out how it handles a polyamorous relationship you'd do well to read it (the protagonist marries every one of his harem members).

I watched the first season of the anime and it was kinda interesting until it... wasn't anymore. I've heard it pretty much crosses the line from borderline to full H in later volumes, but it wasn't really my thing.

Anyway, in the end season 3 was genuine...ly disappointing. At least there was a nice moment with sensei to close out the series.

[Kamijou Touma IB]

Dang, what an awesome ending to a great series. Now I want to finish reading the light novels. The last episode moved me to tear multiple times.

[Kakurin]

The last episode was truly epic. Seeing dere-Yukinon was rewarding, but dangerous for the heart.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

What a lovely final episode! The perfect way to close this love-triangle between three awkward teenagers who have issues with their social lives. But, at the end of the day, the club gave them something genuine. 8-man & Yukinon found genuine partners in live and Yui at least got the genuine best-friends she had been wanting since Season 1. The fact that Yui can finally confess her feelings in front of the couple + Iroha & Komachi without too much fuss proves that she can deal with the relationship baggage without cutting off her best friends.

Another thing that I like is that there's no cliche "final kiss"-scene between 8-man & Yukinon even after the former's pledge to her. That is so true with their characters. I guess they still need more time to be even closer & I'm perfectly okay with that. Their real date is so cute though. No more stand-offs, just a genuine sweetness throughout.

Speaking of sweet, the "first & last dance with Sensei"-scene is just precious. Especially when Shizuka brought up 8-man's edgy sayings in S1. And I like that there's no fanservice shot even when Shizuka fell on top of 8-man. There's no boob-jiggle or lecherous clevage shot or ass-shot. This show is too classy & tasteful for that. The dance, falling & sitting-against-each-other scene is like the pinnacle of their chemistry & relationship: they enjoy each other's company beyond just a teacher & student but they still know their place and where they shouldn't overstep each other's social position because they respect each other too much. And when Hachiman said "It's so 10 years ago", could it be that he's recalling what he said about marrying Shizuka if he's 10 years older?

The second prom is rough for them as expected. There's no 80s montage that lead to total success here. There's a mounting debt after the party which Yuki & Hachi have to take care of. But at least Yukino's "I love you" is cute like 8-man said, and the gang get their place back thanks to Iroha's Shady dealings .

Meanwhile, the other scenes are just pure fun. The sauna is amusing and the people that 8-man helped in the past coming together to help his event is just neat.

All in all, a great ending to this awkward highschool SoL romance. I don't know why source-readers said that this final part sucks compared to others. The anime at least proves me that it's not true. It ends on a high-&-earned note. 8-man's last case finally got himself a genuine wife-to-be, complete with scary future sister-in-law & mother-in-law . Too bad that we never see Yuki-Mom interact with Komachi .

[AC-Phoenix]

Oh my Iroha... She was actually dumb enough to say something like that near Komachi. Good to see that Komachi took the chance to take a jab at Iroha for it.

Also what's up with Yui-friend spouting tsundere sentences at hachiman all of a sudden?

As for Yukino... Maybe my memory is starting to fail me, but the last time I saw such an awkward couple was in Kimi ga Nozumu ein, and that ended... Not very well for girl 1. But yeah... I could totally see it go that way here.

On the other side, Yukino also did something more... Yui like with the selfie there?

Also, as expected, Yukinomom expects 8-man to work his ass off .

This episode also illuminated that Shizuka was drawn far too similar to Yukino. If you look at them all the characters without knowing who is who and are told she has an adult sister, you'd probably guess Shizuka instead.

And, well, regarding the ending...When yui came in with a shy "yahallo" there, 8-man should have know that there was only one thing to do... do the Batman/vanish into thin air while everyone turns around.

[Kanon]

The highlight for me were Komachi and Iroha's first interaction (I'd love a spin-off focusing on those two) and Hachiman's farewell to Sensei. Shows how much I care about the romance, I guess
It felt to me like the series ended right when it was about to get interesting again.

Yui's closing lines felt so wrong, as they implied she'll never move on and will keep pinning for Hachiman forever.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

And when Hachiman said "It's so 10 years ago", could it be that he's recalling what he said about marrying Shizuka if he's 10 years older?

It was him breaking the fourth wall, that line was written ten years ago.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Yui's closing lines felt so wrong, as they implied she'll never move on and will keep pinning for Hachiman forever.

Iroha did something similar with her alcohol remark though.

[Klashikari]

S3 had some issues when it comes to pacing and narrative choices that felt at odds with the stakes (mostly the setup regarding the prom), but I definitely liked how things concluded while characters stayed true to their characterization and growth through S1 and S2. It has been so long I didn't feel that way for an anime series.
I sure hope there will be an OVA for the new service club under Komachi's leadership. That would be interesting to say the least.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

In general, I still don't understand the doom-&-gloom reaction of the source-readers back then before S3 started. Unless they really really don't like Yukinon being with 8-man, the show turns out great.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

Also, as expected, Yukinomom expects 8-man to work his ass off .

I assume the debt of holding the prom is shouldered by the Yukinoshita household for now? If so then, yeah, Yuki-Mom will make 8-man pay it back. It was his prom after all . Thank god Yuki-Mom still likes him, to some degree.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

And, well, regarding the ending...When yui came in with a shy "yahallo" there, 8-man should have know that there was only one thing to do... do the Batman/vanish into thin air while everyone turns around.

Nah, he doesn't need to. Not after all that character development.

Originally Posted by Kanon

Yui's closing lines felt so wrong, as they implied she'll never move on and will keep pinning for Hachiman forever.

I mean, Yui still have no other love interest, and 8-man & Yukinon aren't married yet, so..........do what Iroha told her to?

Originally Posted by Kanon

It was him breaking the fourth wall, that line was written ten years ago.

LOL didn't expect that.

[AC-Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

I assume the debt of holding the prom is shouldered by the Yukinoshita household for now? If so then, yeah, Yuki-Mom will make 8-man pay it back. It was his prom after all . Thank god Yuki-Mom still likes him, to some degree.

Possible, I meant it more along the line of considering him her in-law already and expect him to work to work his ass off for the family business.

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

Nah, he doesn't need to. Not after all that character development.

LOL didn't expect that.

But... it would have been the cool thing to do! ; ) (also the funniest)

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by stray

I watched the first season of the anime and it was kinda interesting until it... wasn't anymore. I've heard it pretty much crosses the line from borderline to full H in later volumes, but it wasn't really my thing.

H-elements might not be your thing, but SMnT is one of the few harem-based LNs where the MC does end up with every one of his harem members (the "true harem" ending) as well as have children with all of them.

Originally Posted by stray

Anyway, in the end season 3 was genuine...ly disappointing. At least there was a nice moment with sensei to close out the series.

You're not alone in that assessment.