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View Poll Results: Fate/Zero - Episode 12 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 21 | 23.33% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 25 | 27.78% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 19 | 21.11% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 12 | 13.33% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 11 | 12.22% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.11% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 1 | 1.11% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll |
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2011-12-17, 17:42 | Link #22 | |
King of Heroes
Join Date: Feb 2009
Age: 38
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Also, I thought people retained their Command Spells after they lose a Servant, since they could make a new contract with another one. So I'm a little confused why he lost his. I thought he should've retained them all along. Or maybe I misunderstood something. |
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2011-12-17, 19:52 | Link #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
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I guess it's just like that. In order to be a master, you must desire the grail. After Kirei lost his assassins, he genuinely felt that he was done with the war and ready to put it behind him. He still had an interest in Kiritsugu, but that doesn't have anything to do with the grail war.
So he lost the seals, but then some demigod jerk came and drank all his wine. And dragged him back to hell. I wonder if Gilgamesh likes tempting Kirei just to waver his faith? Gilgamesh always liked to challenge the gods after all.
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2011-12-17, 21:11 | Link #25 |
Keep on keeping on
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The pale blue dot...
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A slower-paced episode, but even if it's talking, it wasn't that bad. The highlight is clearly Kirei and Gilgamesh's conversation. It's interesting to see how Kirei reacts to Gilgamesh's words, and there's so much foreshadowing going on, like with the chess pieces. And I found the BGM at the beginning of that segment kinda odd...
And something's wrong with Illyasviel. Uh oh... Anyway, 7/10. Can't wait for the next one - the final episode of this cour. =/ |
2011-12-17, 22:10 | Link #26 |
Loves the Experience
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Earth...hopefully
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Didn't like this episode. It was just people talking, and unless the characters involved are Rider or Waver (or even the Caster team), talking heads aren't exciting. 5/10 for being so boring.
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2011-12-17, 22:40 | Link #27 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
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;( I'm so disappointed of this episode. There are was a lot of talk....... no action, absolutely nothing except the Kirei's awakening, which could be done in less than 3 minutes. The first season will be over soon and they are in the middle of nowhere.
6/10 |
2011-12-17, 22:56 | Link #28 |
Senior Member
Author
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What I find with Fate/Zero is that most of the episodes are excellent when evaluated individually, but the net effect of them thus far is a somewhat stagnant plot.
In other words, as good as much of the dialogue is, not a whole lot of significance in the Holy Grail War itself has happened thus far. Kayneth was knocked out and replaced by Sola-Ui, meaning that a Lancer team is still around. The Assassins have all been eliminated, but Kotomine has been chosen by the Grail to continue on. Between Kayneth and the Assassins, it's kind of like one competing pair out of seven being eliminated, I suppose. That's not terrible, but it's not much either for 12 episodes worth of Grail competition. With this in mind, I'd have no issue with dialogue-heavy episodes like this one if the action-oriented ones had resulted in more significant changes in the competition itself. Now, that being said, for a dialogue-heavy episode, this was very good. Kiritsugu strategizing was genuinely fun to watch, as it's one of the character's strengths and puts some real focus back on the competition itself, which is good to see. Saber and Irisviel's scenes weren't particularly exciting, but they did make for a good lighter contrast to the Kiritsugu and Kotomine/Gilgamesh scenes. Saber and Irisviel do have pretty good chemistry between them, and watching them care about and respect each other a lot has a sort of contagious effect for me, where it also makes me care about and respect them more as well. Irisviel's overall condition is certainly one that encourages great sympathy, and so it's good for that to provide added emotional investment here. The highlight of the episode was definitely the Kotomine/Gilgamesh scene, though. It had that rare combo that often makes for such great drama: subtle but intense. The conversation between them has a slight poetic quality to it that kept it from becoming dull, but it was also comprehensible enough to follow without getting completely lost. Just the right amount of "talking in riddles", in other words. So, all-told, this was a very good episode. I do find the pacing rather slow, but I suppose one possible positive arising from that might well be a very exciting and intense second half. 8/10 for Episode 12.
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2011-12-17, 22:59 | Link #29 |
Magical Boy
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hiding... don't try to find me.
Age: 20
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I like the way Rider phrased it last ep. Holy Grail dialouges. There's no war.
It will be retarded if Kirei does kill Tokiomi. He has command seals and can force Gilgamesh to kill him whether he wants to be Kirei's slave or not. He can reset them. So it's infinite regardless. |
2011-12-17, 23:10 | Link #31 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Netherlands
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2011-12-17, 23:29 | Link #32 | |
Your wife is hot...
Join Date: May 2008
Location: At your house fixing A/C
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I don't blame Gil for wanting to change master, Tosaka is the most boring character in the show , even his daughter out shine him |
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2011-12-17, 23:55 | Link #33 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Spoiler for novel original, not spoilery since this scene was technically already adapted:
Gilgamesh doesn't see Tokiomi as a Master, just his lackey, a very dull one. But I liked how this chatter was replaced by the visual of Gilgamesh knocking down the chess piece that represented Tokiomi when he removed Assassin from the board. It had a powerful impact. Another interesting bit: the way Gilgamesh addresses to Kirei isn't as rude as the way he addresses to other people. Casual and informal, but not rude. He likes Kotomine that much.
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2011-12-18, 00:53 | Link #37 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Fantastic episode, though I doubt I would've found it as interesting had I not read the F/SN Visual Novel. Definitely the episode with the most throwbacks and foreshadowing to it so far. But yeah, I think I could watch Kotomine and Gilgamesh talk it out for an entire season and never once be bored. With dialogue this good, who needs action.
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But Gil's sadism is part of the reason why he finds Kotomine so interesting. Watching tortured souls go about their thorny path is Gil's preferred form of entertainment, and it doesn't get much more tortured and conflicted than Kotomine. Saber also fits the bill quite well, hence Gil's proclamation of love towards her in the previous episode. |
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2011-12-18, 01:01 | Link #38 | |
The Dark Knight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: From the deepest abyss in the world, where you think?
Age: 38
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If Emiya is correct he's spent so far what? 10 episodes hiding in his basement? Granted the intel being provided by the assassins were nice but he's making some bad choices IMO. Even Emiya has stated that it's better to leave Berserker alone because he is capable of countering Archer's Gate. |
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2011-12-18, 01:05 | Link #39 |
Spoilaphobic
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Age: 37
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I wasn't expecting so much talking, again. But it was still a great episode. We know Assassin in gone but Kirei isn't out of the fight, just yet. Gil really is pulling his string, oh man. Tokiomi should have bought Gil a Nintendo or something to keep him occupied, . It was nice to see the Emiya Mansion. Now we know where that magic circle came from too.
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2011-12-18, 01:07 | Link #40 |
<em style="color:#808080;">Disabled By Request</em>
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Standalone, this was not a bad ep, in particular the dialogue exchanges between Kotomine and Gilgamesh. It's seems to be highly hinted that Kotomine is going to betray his mentor Tohsaka and even steal Gilgamesh from him considering it was Gilgamesh himself who suggested it, and he was picking up the Archer chess piece whilst doing so.
Other parts of the episode were so-so. I'm honestly at a point where I am "cool story broing" Saber atm. Seriously, she is weak, naive and boring that I hardly care about her considering there's much more interesting servants out there like Rider, Caster and even Gilgamesh. I mean she's one of the main characters, supposed to be the strongest class but is being portrayed as such an underpowered underdog. IIRC I didn't feel the same way I did to Saber when I watched Fate Stay Night many years ago. Regardless, I am finding it very frustrating that it's the 2nd last episode of the 1st cour of Fate/Zero and someone has STILL not died. I expected Caster + Master and Lancer + Master to be eliminated as a bare minimum before the 2nd cour started in Spring next year, but I donno if I can even assume that at this point. The pacing of F/Z has been too slow and whilst the dialogue exchanges have been largely good, things need to start dying or Fate Zero pacing is little to no better than your average shonen series. For that I can't give Fate/Zero a higher score than 7/10 given where we are atm. |
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