AnimeSuki Forums

itanshi1 · 2012-01-21, 21:54

It seems to me via vivid the style is alive and well, if not only derivative, much like karate is now etc

Keroko:Ah that was mentioned, tho, Belkan style doe snot only use cartridges.

Mow Yun · 2012-01-22, 03:13

Verossa and Carim (sp?) were likely to have been utilizing old style Belka magic, because of their special abilities.

Key Board · 2012-01-27, 00:31

I think it's really weird that the TSAB didn't recognize old belka style at first during A's

The magic triangle is EXACTLY the same as modern Belka, and modern Belka has been in use since Quint Nakajima's days

It's not exactly an obscure magic style either. There's a Saint Church in every administered world, according to Force.

Akiyoshi · 2012-01-27, 00:34

^ Not to mention Zest who is both a Mid-Childan officer AND an Old-styled Belkan Knight.

Key Board · 2012-01-27, 00:34

Exactly.. maybe Amy just needs to go back to cadet school. Or all that combing Chrono did caused some permanent damage to her memory.

//

Sunder the Gold · 2012-01-27, 00:54

Further, while Fate's incomplete education easily explains why she didn't know, Yuuno should have been warning her about exactly what Vita was and to watch out for her Cartridge Ignitions.

Their knight garb might be different each time, but "a small, powerful, redheaded Belkan Knight with a hammer Device" should have thrown up warning flags in a certain scholar's mind.

itanshi1 · 2012-01-27, 00:59

eh, he's a relic scholar, not a historian. No access to the Library maybe

Sunder the Gold · 2012-01-27, 01:36

The Wolkenritter and Book of Darkness attacked the TSAB no earlier than 14 years ago, and the book has been around for all or most of Hayate's life.

Thus, the Book can return from destruction within a ten year period, or shorter.

Imagine losing at least one planet every 10 years to a Lost Logia and its Four Horseman of the Apocalypse.

You think our Horsemen are popular in horror and fiction? People have actually SEEN the Wolkenritter and lived to tell about it! Repeatedly, over the course of a thousand years.

They are living, infamous legends. You shouldn't need to be a historian to know about them. They'd be at least as famous as the Last Sankt Kaiser.

itanshi1 · 2012-01-27, 02:05

That does leave a gap in the plot eh

Akiyoshi · 2012-01-27, 02:32

Well, it was also implied that the info about incidents related to the Book of Darkness are labeled as top secret. Even the true nature of the Wolkenritter and Hayate's powers are a secret for most people in Mid Childa and the TSAB in order to protect them from retaliation from other people.

itanshi1 · 2012-01-27, 02:34

Then it'd be like comparing it to the Phildelphia Experiments

Keroko · 2012-01-27, 03:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by itanshi1

That does leave a gap in the plot eh

Even more gaping when you remember that Amy recognised the serial number for the Belka cartridge system at first glance.

Though having said that... I don't recall any of the Mid crew not recognizing Belka magic. At least, none of them went "what's that?" during the fight, and afterwards we got an infodump from the Mid crew rather quickly.

Akiyoshi · 2012-01-27, 03:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

Though having said that... I don't recall any of the Mid crew not recognizing Belka magic. At least, none of them went "what's that?" during the fight, and afterwards we got an infodump from the Mid crew rather quickly.

To be fair, most infodump came from Amy, chrono, The Lieze Twins, Graham and Lindy. the last two are high-rank officers while the other have close connections with them and other high-ranked officers like Letti Lowran that more likely have access to exclusive information. In the case of Lindy is a given since her husband was a lead officer during the past Book of Darkness incident as also a victim. It's natural fro them to have all that usefull info to make the exposition xD

Sunder the Gold · 2012-01-27, 03:52

Amy didn't recognize the kekkai's programming language was Belkan. She also didn't recognize the Wolkenritter on her displays, or the Book.

Chrono only recognized the Book.

Fate had no idea to expect a cartridge mechanism when fighting a Belkan Knight.

Akiyoshi · 2012-01-27, 04:20

^ Yet Graham and the Twins were absolutely aware of practically everything, and have countermeasures prepared for everyone including Nanoha, Fate and the entire Wolkenritter.

Keroko · 2012-01-27, 05:40

The barrier can be explained as a variable of the spell itself that was unknown rather than the type of magic used to cast it.

The knights... One could argue that since the book tends to end with the total destruction of whatever world its on, few survivors, much less record, remains of the knights appearance.

As for Fate, she's an isolated child. Not recognizing the cartridge system is not surprising.

Sunder the Gold · 2012-01-27, 10:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akiyoshi

^ Yet Graham and the Twins were absolutely aware of practically everything, and have countermeasures prepared for everyone including Nanoha, Fate and the entire Wolkenritter.

Supposing it wasn't a ridiculous fluke that allowed Graham to find Hayate and the Book, but that the TSAB had developed a method to try and track it down, Graham may have told everyone that he failed to find the book on Earth, or otherwise quietly foiled everyone else's attempt to search or scan the planet.

Eight years is MORE than enough time to research the Book, the Wolkenritter and Ancient Belkan Knights, and it wouldn't even be suspicious for Graham to be doing so. People would just chalk it up to an old man dwelling on a bad loss.

Graham wasn't prepared for everyone who DID get involved so much as he and his familiars were already capable of dealing with ANYONE who got involved.

For ME, the questions are why the twins framed Nanoha and Fate for the deaths of the Wolkenritter, as that pretty much garaunteed they were going to die. Were the twins THAT annoyed by the little mages getting involved, or are they just that pointlessly MEAN?

Their sadism towards the Wolkenritter is mildly reasonable in that they understandably hate the knights of the Book and don't regard them as human. Their sadism towards Hayate could be explained as an act they performed out of necessity, to get her to activate the completed Book.

However, there was absolutely NO reason to set Hayate off IN A HIGHLY POPULATED CITY.

Altogether, the cats come off as EEEEEEVIL as Quattro.

I don't know how aware Graham was that his familiars were apparently trying to murder Nanoha and Fate, but would he really have been unaware of their choice of location?

Skane · 2012-01-27, 11:36

It was because of Fate's and Nanoha's interference that the cats got involved in the first place. Until Vita and Signum were getting brow-beaten, the twins did not reveal themselves at all. We only know what the plan was supposed to be, but the exact details and desired execution are unknown. They could have arranged for Hayate to "visit" her sugar daddy at some isolated corner of the world when the book is nearing completion before freezing her, but all the TSAB interference basically forced them to escalate the plan.

Also, Graham was about the ends justify the means.

Cheers.

Keroko · 2012-01-27, 12:22

The plan was to set Hayate off, seal her and be done with it. If all went to plan the city wouldn't even have noticed (barriers 'n stuff). As for why show Nanoha and Fate, Hayate needed a mental shock in order to be motivated enough to activate the book (as Hayate herself had no intent of doing this). Showing your friends killing your family is about the biggest shock you can get.

Twins don't do stuff half-assed.

Akiyoshi · 2012-01-27, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keroko

The plan was to set Hayate off, seal her and be done with it. If all went to plan the city wouldn't even have noticed (barriers 'n stuff). As for why show Nanoha and Fate, Hayate needed a mental shock in order to be motivated enough to activate the book (as Hayate herself had no intent of doing this). Showing your friends killing your family is about the biggest shock you can get.

Twins don't do stuff half-assed.

^ This.

Nanoha and Fate by that point were two nice girls that Hayate recently meet ...on CHRISTMAS EVE! xDU ...The Twins really took that gold opportunity for shock value xD.

2012-01-21, 21:54	Link #2601
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	It seems to me via vivid the style is alive and well, if not only derivative, much like karate is now etc Keroko:Ah that was mentioned, tho, Belkan style doe snot only use cartridges. __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2012-01-27, 00:31	Link #2603
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	I think it's really weird that the TSAB didn't recognize old belka style at first during A's The magic triangle is EXACTLY the same as modern Belka, and modern Belka has been in use since Quint Nakajima's days It's not exactly an obscure magic style either. There's a Saint Church in every administered world, according to Force. __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2012-01-27, 00:34	Link #2604
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	^ Not to mention Zest who is both a Mid-Childan officer AND an Old-styled Belkan Knight. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-01-27, 00:34	Link #2605
Key Board Carbon Join Date: Nov 2003	Exactly.. maybe Amy just needs to go back to cadet school. Or all that combing Chrono did caused some permanent damage to her memory. // __________________ "Legitimacy is based on three things. First of all, the people who are asked to obey authority have to feel like they have a voice—that if they speak up, they will be heard. Second, the law has to be predictable. There has to be a reasonable expectation that the rules tomorrow are going to be roughly the same as the rules today. And third, the authority has to be fair. It can’t treat one group differently from another.” Malcolm Gladwell

2012-01-27, 00:59	Link #2607
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	eh, he's a relic scholar, not a historian. No access to the Library maybe __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2012-01-22, 03:13	Link #2602
Mow Yun Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 34	Verossa and Carim (sp?) were likely to have been utilizing old style Belka magic, because of their special abilities.

2012-01-27, 00:54	Link #2606
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Further, while Fate's incomplete education easily explains why she didn't know, Yuuno should have been warning her about exactly what Vita was and to watch out for her Cartridge Ignitions. Their knight garb might be different each time, but "a small, powerful, redheaded Belkan Knight with a hammer Device" should have thrown up warning flags in a certain scholar's mind.

2012-01-27, 01:36	Link #2608
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	The Wolkenritter and Book of Darkness attacked the TSAB no earlier than 14 years ago, and the book has been around for all or most of Hayate's life. Thus, the Book can return from destruction within a ten year period, or shorter. Imagine losing at least one planet every 10 years to a Lost Logia and its Four Horseman of the Apocalypse. You think our Horsemen are popular in horror and fiction? People have actually SEEN the Wolkenritter and lived to tell about it! Repeatedly, over the course of a thousand years. They are living, infamous legends. You shouldn't need to be a historian to know about them. They'd be at least as famous as the Last Sankt Kaiser.

2012-01-27, 02:05	Link #2609
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	That does leave a gap in the plot eh __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2012-01-27, 02:32	Link #2610
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	Well, it was also implied that the info about incidents related to the Book of Darkness are labeled as top secret. Even the true nature of the Wolkenritter and Hayate's powers are a secret for most people in Mid Childa and the TSAB in order to protect them from retaliation from other people. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-01-27, 02:34	Link #2611
itanshi1 Writer, Jester, MtG nerd Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Nanoha Used Car Dealership. RERISE!	Then it'd be like comparing it to the Phildelphia Experiments __________________ For those that belittle their favorite characters, complain about pairings, complain about oversexed images. Stop, thank you. Fear Anxiety Doubt is but a fad. The life of a fad depends entirely on the willingness to support it. Difficulty is a choice. Determination is a path. Your next great idea after your destination is the true goal.

2012-01-27, 03:52	Link #2614
Sunder the Gold Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011	Amy didn't recognize the kekkai's programming language was Belkan. She also didn't recognize the Wolkenritter on her displays, or the Book. Chrono only recognized the Book. Fate had no idea to expect a cartridge mechanism when fighting a Belkan Knight.

2012-01-27, 04:20	Link #2615
Akiyoshi The Flame Crussader Join Date: Aug 2009	^ Yet Graham and the Twins were absolutely aware of practically everything, and have countermeasures prepared for everyone including Nanoha, Fate and the entire Wolkenritter. __________________ May 29 2010-2019 ...9 years ago, the day after never would be the same ~The ASFB~

2012-01-27, 05:40	Link #2616
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	The barrier can be explained as a variable of the spell itself that was unknown rather than the type of magic used to cast it. The knights... One could argue that since the book tends to end with the total destruction of whatever world its on, few survivors, much less record, remains of the knights appearance. As for Fate, she's an isolated child. Not recognizing the cartridge system is not surprising.

2012-01-27, 11:36	Link #2618
Skane Anime Snark Join Date: May 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 41	It was because of Fate's and Nanoha's interference that the cats got involved in the first place. Until Vita and Signum were getting brow-beaten, the twins did not reveal themselves at all. We only know what the plan was supposed to be, but the exact details and desired execution are unknown. They could have arranged for Hayate to "visit" her sugar daddy at some isolated corner of the world when the book is nearing completion before freezing her, but all the TSAB interference basically forced them to escalate the plan. Also, Graham was about the ends justify the means. Cheers. __________________ Hearthstone Battletag: Skane#1425 [Can't GIF This], [Jail's House of Rock], [Kanon In The Snow], [She Ain't Dead Yet... She's In Quantum], [She Stabs] Founder of "The Cult of Psycho-Moe", Member of "ARIA the Social Group" & the "Belkan Saint Church".

2012-01-27, 12:22	Link #2619
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	The plan was to set Hayate off, seal her and be done with it. If all went to plan the city wouldn't even have noticed (barriers 'n stuff). As for why show Nanoha and Fate, Hayate needed a mental shock in order to be motivated enough to activate the book (as Hayate herself had no intent of doing this). Showing your friends killing your family is about the biggest shock you can get. Twins don't do stuff half-assed.