AnimeSuki Forums

panzerfan · 2007-01-05, 01:19

Zaris, let me assure you that mobile phone existed in Japan even before 1995, and were in use. Mail services were available during 1998 actually. NTT DoCoMo was one of the key groups involved in the development of mobile phone. They took over the PHS business during 1998 and have digital network since 1993. Mobile internet service started in 1998-99 as well.

Leaving that aside... I am quite surprised at the pacing. Episode 14 does not feel like a 20 minute segment at all, and I felt drained coming out of it. It went by like a whirlwind for me. I couldn't shake off recollection of AIR in this episode throughout its entirety.

Vexx · 2007-01-05, 01:52

However, mobile phones weren't very common in the 90s (and frankly I don't know what they called them in Japan - "keitai" is the modern word for cell phone in Japan). That's the word Ayu didn't recognize. I can certainly see... whoops, spoiler time (avoid unless you've seen 2002 or played the game)

Spoiler:

Mentar · 2007-01-05, 01:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaris

So what does it mean when Mai says "Sayuri-san no koto ga suki. Dai-suki dakara..."? (Literal translation: "I like Sayuri-san. Because I really like her...") I won't answer this. I'll leave it to you guys instead and comment other people's responses if I have something to say. I've said a lot already. heh

It's rather "Daisuki, dakara..." - I love her, so... (that's why I was so nasty to her a minute ago, to keep her out of this)

houkoholic · 2007-01-05, 02:33

Thelastguardian,

I don't think Kyoani cut that much out and it managed to get across what was needed. A lot of the things were already implied within Sayuri's dialogue (also I think it was brilliant how Sayuri's voice changed slightly when she talked about her past, because this is the first time that we get to hear/see the REAL Sayuri, and not the pretended happy Sayuri that we see on screen, great kudos to Kawakami Tomoko), there really is not much more need to have to draw everything out. In fact, too much information sometimes can backfire and cheapen the effect, especially when taking a visual novel scene (where a player can control his reading speed) vs an animated scene, where timing of the overall delivery is crucial, IMO Kyoani struck a pretty good balance overall in this, even coming from the angle as a player of the game.

Ep15 will see the background of Mai's story, something which the Toei version really dropped the ball on, so I'm looking forward to how Kyoani can pull it off.

Kinny Riddle · 2007-01-05, 02:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelastguardian

Spoiler for 14:

Spoiler for in response to your post:

Meophist · 2007-01-05, 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaris

So what does it mean when Mai says "Sayuri-san no koto ga suki. Dai-suki dakara..."? (Literal translation: "I like Sayuri-san. Because I really like her...") I won't answer this. I'll leave it to you guys instead and comment other people's responses if I have something to say. I've said a lot already. heh

It's impossible to translate directly, but basically she first says she likes Sayuri-san. The second part is her going back to revise what she said, from "like" to "really like". At the end, she adds "dakara", which the English equivilent would be "…so, ". It's to represent that she did something(context given during the show), because she likes Sayuri-san.

As for the episode itself… it's odd. I've already watched the older anime, so I knew what was coming up for most of the story. This episode was the exception. Since the last anime aired quite a while ago, I picked up on alot of story details that was not present in the anime from fans. Finally seeing those story details from an official source was quite amazing to see.

The first minute. I love how Nayuki suddenly wakes up to the mention of the jam. I saw this scene coming from a mile away and yet it still gets me. Also at how the two act as if it's literally going to be death for Ayu(especially Yuuichi's little narrative). Even a reused joke was executed masterfully.

Also, "kirin-san" is the best thing ever.

Vexx · 2007-01-05, 03:11

The second part is pretty clear, Dai-suki dakara is as
"(I) love (her) because/'which-explains' .... (why I bit her head off - to chase her away so she'll be safe).

How she means love *I* take to mean spiritually soul-bonded but I'm sure other interpretations can run amuck.

I'll admit a major "duh" though... I'm scratching my head at "Sayuri-san no koto" mostly because I can't figure out any alternate meaning for koto outside of a musical instrument. Is Mai being unusually poetic or do I just have lousy dictionary access?

edit: wow.. sprocket-waffle was *really* fast today, they have ep 14 out (drat, still downloading something else...)

Zaris · 2007-01-05, 03:33

Nah, Vexx, your dictionary can't be bad. The 'koto' that Mai was using was the kanji '事', which literally means "thing, experience, circumstance". Mai basically meant she liked "the thing about Sayuri-san", but you can take it as just "Sayuri-san" as well. It's not uncommon for JP people to add this kanji in speech when they refer to particular nouns.

「私はサユリさんの事が好き。大好きだから…」

But yes, you're right. How you take their relationship may also depend on our own definition of like and love. It's just perplexing to see different anime use different words to say or mean the same thing. = |

Vexx · 2007-01-05, 04:11

(light dawns....) bleh ... I forgot to crosscheck against kanji, was just using the JP-ENG phonetic dictionary I have. Annnnd suddenly I remember my teacher using that phrase once or twice in class last session... d'oh. I guess I'm getting better at this, I could read 「私はサユリさんの事が好き。大好きだから…」 without blinking.
Time for bed methinks.

Sushi-Y · 2007-01-05, 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaris

So what does it mean when Mai says "Sayuri-san no koto ga suki. Dai-suki dakara..."? (Literal translation: "I like Sayuri-san. Because I really like her...") I won't answer this. I'll leave it to you guys instead and comment other people's responses if I have something to say. I've said a lot already. heh

She's simply repeating it for emphasis, nothing more. The line could be translated into something like "I love Sayuri-san. I really do, that's why..."

Of course, the love here refers to friendship love.

Quote:

Originally Posted by houkoholic

I don't think Kyoani cut that much out and it managed to get across what was needed. A lot of the things were already implied within Sayuri's dialogue (also I think it was brilliant how Sayuri's voice changed slightly when she talked about her past, because this is the first time that we get to hear/see the REAL Sayuri, and not the pretended happy Sayuri that we see on screen, great kudos to Kawakami Tomoko), there really is not much more need to have to draw everything out. In fact, too much information sometimes can backfire and cheapen the effect, especially when taking a visual novel scene (where a player can control his reading speed) vs an animated scene, where timing of the overall delivery is crucial, IMO Kyoani struck a pretty good balance overall in this, even coming from the angle as a player of the game.

I feel pretty much the same way. Like I said in my first post, it's true Kyoani had to pick up their pace somewhat, and inevitably, some of the details were lost (especially since we're talking about a sub heroine story here). But that doesn't change the fact that this episode was still some 20 odd minutes of meaningful animation, right?

**Klashikari** · 2007-01-05, 06:27

*cough* aye... another 10 *cough* let's see

1) the very first scene is again, another comedy gold... i was bursting in laughter with the special "horror" effect on Akiko's glory gesture with the jam and nayuki's sudden awakening with the words "special jam"

I couldn't refrain myself saying "Rest In Peace Ayu...", even more dramatic with both nayuki and yuuichi's thoughts, especially with THAT amount of jam (and the creepy sound of it...akiko has one of the absolute torture tool XD)... heck, wasn't there even more than matoko's share in the ep 7 ?

2) nayuki's gift... i must say i was caught offguard with that thing coming from nayuki. kudos for KyoAni for this subtle way to reveal even more yuuichi's memories, confirming definitavely some link he had previously.

3) I dunno if it is because some sakuga irregularity or such, but at the scene of the lunch, Mai's face was kinda... nicer/cuter than usual while talking about sayuri being late, such like a pet waiting for its beloved master. (maybe i am imagining things...)
It was even more surprising that she would accept playing shiritori. It appears that she is becoming even more open to yuuichi <3

4) More points for yuuichi : he DOES realize that nayuki would be worried about him !

5) serious training... again more humour around... RIP yuuchi XD (i'm wondering how he was able to take back his sit for the rest of the day

). interesting note : yuuichi DOES have some confidence as a man XD

6) Sayuri, when she tripped, reminds me of Misuzu when she fell, while buying some juice for Yukito...(same expression, same "whoa ! ", and same clumsy yet cute face)

7) more mai character development ! when mai had shown how she overpowered sayuri, i was like "WTH are you doing oO" just like yuuichi, but the BGM recall me that there is indeed a reason for this. She is plain awkward... (but it gives her even more points <3 first reason why this episode deserved a 10)

8) Sayuri's past... it explains a lot, i can't do anything but agree with what was said earlier : original way to tell a sorrowful past, lots of depths, etc (second reason why this episode deserved a 10)

9) Things are now dead serious... can't deny the fact that i was like "you shouldn't, sayuri !". the sudden silence and black screen were perfect (maybe it should be slightly longer, like 0.5s-1s ?)
Impressive face expressions and seyuu performance for the speechless and despaired moments.

10) mai's breakdown... ok, while the demolition show was a bit exagerrated (high jump, things being slashed just like butter), it shows how far was mai's rage and sorrow. The twist in the usual mai's theme increased a lot in the mood, while the seyuu, again, made a "god-like" (no joking) job here, my hat off to Yukari Tomura. (the whole scene is the third reason for a 10)

Not only it adds so much in mai's character, but also the relationship between the three of them.

Can't wait the next episode for some kick demon asses.

Knavinusa · 2007-01-05, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thelastguardian

Spoiler:

Good catch. I thought it was weird that they decided to zoom into her wrist like that, but she covered it rather quickly so I missed it.

I just had to give this one a 10. The bit of comedy at the beginning with Akiko's special jam was good comic relief for all the drama afterwards.

It's a good thing they included Sayuri's confession, because I no longer need to wonder why she never seems to laugh naturally. But wow, that scene at the end was incredibly freaky, (actually, those demons remind me of those monsters in Bleach 'cause of the water and all) not to mention the look on Mai's face after falling to the ground...

By the way, Yuuichi seems to have gained superhuman strength. Did you notice how high he knocked Mai's sword into the air?

Skane · 2007-01-05, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knavinusa

~ By the way, Yuuichi seems to have gained superhuman strength. Did you notice how high he knocked Mai's sword into the air?

Yuuichi gained superhuman strength? What about Mai? She is either wielding a Wh40k Power-Sword, or has the strength of a Demi-God to smash those stuff up.

Narf.

Pakxenon · 2007-01-05, 08:02

WOW. If I weren't so hard-hearted I would have been broken down in tears by 19:, but alas, I still have some problems with this episode.

First, Sayuri's past seemingly came out of nowhere. I thought we were Mai-centric. However, it did flow good into the next part XspoilersX.

Second, the comedy/drama transitions aren't done quite well throughout THE WHOLE SERIES. In my opinion, they really need to work on this, because I am still more impressed with Rozen Maiden's transitions (weird, eh?) from its comedy to drama/fighting. As much as Akiko's jam-mu is funny, I couldn't get into Sayuri's story without thinking how Ayu will react to it.

Other than that, if only it was perfect, I'd be crying with Mai right now. Technic score: 9/10.

Deathkillz · 2007-01-05, 08:30

rofl lets see...

Spoiler:

solid 10 in my books...

Knavinusa · 2007-01-05, 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

Spoiler:

Mai's intentions for doing that are obviously not bad; she is Mai's best friend after all. Mai just did that to try to keep her from getting hurt (again). Granted, the method she used was rather awkward, but perhaps she isn't able to express her concern for Sayuri in any other way.

aliensporebomb · 2007-01-05, 08:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyz

Spoiler:

Well:

Spoiler:

This episode receives a 10, the first of all the episodes to get a 10 from me.

Great stuff.

Deathkillz · 2007-01-05, 08:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knavinusa

Mai's intentions for doing that are obviously not bad; she is Mai's best friend after all. Mai just did that to try to keep her from getting hurt (again). Granted, the method she used was rather awkward, but perhaps she isn't able to express her concern for Sayuri in any other way.

yep i know that

and what makes her so shocked to see...was sayuri getting hurt again O.o and quite seriously no doubt...but like i said that incident has now opened mai up and to release her emotions ~ in the form of blind fury and anger...

velocity7 · 2007-01-05, 08:44

Words about Sayuri...

Spoiler:

Words about Yuuichi...

Spoiler:

In other notes about Mai...

Spoiler:

And as for the "I like Sayuri" line, we had subbed it as "I care for Sayuri. I really do. That's why..." as it made the most sense context-wise. I feel that going by "I like Sayuri" or "I love Sayuri" has always been ambiguous, as Yuuichi had also said the same thing in episode 13 with the "Sayuri and I care for you!" line.

Of course though, that brings up the matter of Sayuri telling her little brother that she loves him so much, which we left alone. That would be along the lines of, "we don't treat you like a friend, we treat you like our own" sort of thing. The word "love" would definitely work here more. Same holds true for Makoto, as Yuuichi had accepted her as family rather than just a friend or random bystander eating away at his food.

**Klashikari** · 2007-01-05, 09:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by velocity7

Words about Sayuri...

Spoiler:

the difference is :

Spoiler:

Quote:

Words about Yuuichi...

Spoiler:

it's rather normal i think :

Spoiler:

View Poll Results: Kanon - 2006 - Episode 14 Rating
Perfect 10	133	70.37%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	43	22.75%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	10	5.29%
7 out of 10 : Good	2	1.06%
6 out of 10 : Average	0	0%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	0	0%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	1	0.53%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	0	0%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

2007-01-05, 01:19	Link #21
panzerfan Name means little... Graphic Designer Join Date: Dec 2004	Zaris, let me assure you that mobile phone existed in Japan even before 1995, and were in use. Mail services were available during 1998 actually. NTT DoCoMo was one of the key groups involved in the development of mobile phone. They took over the PHS business during 1998 and have digital network since 1993. Mobile internet service started in 1998-99 as well. Leaving that aside... I am quite surprised at the pacing. Episode 14 does not feel like a 20 minute segment at all, and I felt drained coming out of it. It went by like a whirlwind for me. I couldn't shake off recollection of AIR in this episode throughout its entirety. __________________ It would be enough for the depressing things in life to only exist in reality. It is because that I think the birth of a story... is from people dreaming of a happy ending. ~Misaka Shiori Last edited by panzerfan; 2007-01-05 at 01:40.

2007-01-05, 01:52	Link #22
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	However, mobile phones weren't very common in the 90s (and frankly I don't know what they called them in Japan - "keitai" is the modern word for cell phone in Japan). That's the word Ayu didn't recognize. I can certainly see... whoops, spoiler time (avoid unless you've seen 2002 or played the game) Spoiler: why Ayu would have no knowledge of cell phones, given her situation and her age when all this started to happen. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-01-05, 03:11	Link #27
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	The second part is pretty clear, Dai-suki dakara is as "(I) love (her) because/'which-explains' .... (why I bit her head off - to chase her away so she'll be safe). How she means love I take to mean spiritually soul-bonded but I'm sure other interpretations can run amuck. I'll admit a major "duh" though... I'm scratching my head at "Sayuri-san no koto" mostly because I can't figure out any alternate meaning for koto outside of a musical instrument. Is Mai being unusually poetic or do I just have lousy dictionary access? edit: wow.. sprocket-waffle was really fast today, they have ep 14 out (drat, still downloading something else...) __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-01-05, 04:11	Link #29
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 66	(light dawns....) bleh ... I forgot to crosscheck against kanji, was just using the JP-ENG phonetic dictionary I have. Annnnd suddenly I remember my teacher using that phrase once or twice in class last session... d'oh. I guess I'm getting better at this, I could read 「私はサユリさんの事が好き。大好きだから…」 without blinking. Time for bed methinks. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Novel series rough drafts; vol. 1 thru vol. 3 complete Volume 4 in work, Visit the thread for short stories!

2007-01-05, 02:33	Link #24
houkoholic seiyuu maniac Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Tokyo, Japan	Thelastguardian, I don't think Kyoani cut that much out and it managed to get across what was needed. A lot of the things were already implied within Sayuri's dialogue (also I think it was brilliant how Sayuri's voice changed slightly when she talked about her past, because this is the first time that we get to hear/see the REAL Sayuri, and not the pretended happy Sayuri that we see on screen, great kudos to Kawakami Tomoko), there really is not much more need to have to draw everything out. In fact, too much information sometimes can backfire and cheapen the effect, especially when taking a visual novel scene (where a player can control his reading speed) vs an animated scene, where timing of the overall delivery is crucial, IMO Kyoani struck a pretty good balance overall in this, even coming from the angle as a player of the game. Ep15 will see the background of Mai's story, something which the Toei version really dropped the ball on, so I'm looking forward to how Kyoani can pull it off.

2007-01-05, 03:33	Link #28
Zaris of Porsche Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Pasadena, California Age: 39	Nah, Vexx, your dictionary can't be bad. The 'koto' that Mai was using was the kanji '事', which literally means "thing, experience, circumstance". Mai basically meant she liked "the thing about Sayuri-san", but you can take it as just "Sayuri-san" as well. It's not uncommon for JP people to add this kanji in speech when they refer to particular nouns. 「私はサユリさんの事が好き。大好きだから…」 But yes, you're right. How you take their relationship may also depend on our own definition of like and love. It's just perplexing to see different anime use different words to say or mean the same thing. = \|

2007-01-05, 06:27	Link #31
Klashikari 阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180 Graphic Designer Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Belgium, Brussels Age: 37	cough aye... another 10 cough let's see 1) the very first scene is again, another comedy gold... i was bursting in laughter with the special "horror" effect on Akiko's glory gesture with the jam and nayuki's sudden awakening with the words "special jam" I couldn't refrain myself saying "Rest In Peace Ayu...", even more dramatic with both nayuki and yuuichi's thoughts, especially with THAT amount of jam (and the creepy sound of it...akiko has one of the absolute torture tool XD)... heck, wasn't there even more than matoko's share in the ep 7 ? 2) nayuki's gift... i must say i was caught offguard with that thing coming from nayuki. kudos for KyoAni for this subtle way to reveal even more yuuichi's memories, confirming definitavely some link he had previously. 3) I dunno if it is because some sakuga irregularity or such, but at the scene of the lunch, Mai's face was kinda... nicer/cuter than usual while talking about sayuri being late, such like a pet waiting for its beloved master. (maybe i am imagining things...) It was even more surprising that she would accept playing shiritori. It appears that she is becoming even more open to yuuichi <3 4) More points for yuuichi : he DOES realize that nayuki would be worried about him ! 5) serious training... again more humour around... RIP yuuchi XD (i'm wondering how he was able to take back his sit for the rest of the day ). interesting note : yuuichi DOES have some confidence as a man XD 6) Sayuri, when she tripped, reminds me of Misuzu when she fell, while buying some juice for Yukito...(same expression, same "whoa ! ", and same clumsy yet cute face) 7) more mai character development ! when mai had shown how she overpowered sayuri, i was like "WTH are you doing oO" just like yuuichi, but the BGM recall me that there is indeed a reason for this. She is plain awkward... (but it gives her even more points <3 first reason why this episode deserved a 10) 8) Sayuri's past... it explains a lot, i can't do anything but agree with what was said earlier : original way to tell a sorrowful past, lots of depths, etc (second reason why this episode deserved a 10) 9) Things are now dead serious... can't deny the fact that i was like "you shouldn't, sayuri !". the sudden silence and black screen were perfect (maybe it should be slightly longer, like 0.5s-1s ?) Impressive face expressions and seyuu performance for the speechless and despaired moments. 10) mai's breakdown... ok, while the demolition show was a bit exagerrated (high jump, things being slashed just like butter), it shows how far was mai's rage and sorrow. The twist in the usual mai's theme increased a lot in the mood, while the seyuu, again, made a "god-like" (no joking) job here, my hat off to Yukari Tomura. (the whole scene is the third reason for a 10) Not only it adds so much in mai's character, but also the relationship between the three of them. Can't wait the next episode for some kick demon asses. __________________ [Sig art: Kagura Yuu, Nunukko, Maku Rako & Mishima Kurone] / [Twitter]

2007-01-05, 08:02	Link #34
Pakxenon popcorn Join Date: Jan 2006	WOW. If I weren't so hard-hearted I would have been broken down in tears by 19:, but alas, I still have some problems with this episode. First, Sayuri's past seemingly came out of nowhere. I thought we were Mai-centric. However, it did flow good into the next part XspoilersX. Second, the comedy/drama transitions aren't done quite well throughout THE WHOLE SERIES. In my opinion, they really need to work on this, because I am still more impressed with Rozen Maiden's transitions (weird, eh?) from its comedy to drama/fighting. As much as Akiko's jam-mu is funny, I couldn't get into Sayuri's story without thinking how Ayu will react to it. Other than that, if only it was perfect, I'd be crying with Mai right now. Technic score: 9/10.

2007-01-05, 08:30	Link #35
Deathkillz ~ You're dead ^__^* ~ Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: uk, England Age: 34	rofl lets see... Spoiler: ~ the jam from hell makes a come back XD we get that death look on yuuichi's face again and nayukis pitty (she even wakes up upon hearing the fobidden words) ~ flashback from the bunny ears...how convenient ~ mai's habit of adding -san to animal words is very moe ^__^ ~ yuuichi training again...and he get his ass smoked (literally) by mai but he is improving... ~ whow...mai can be rather cold when she wants too...i mean telling your best friend to "get lost" (in a way) must have hurt poor sayuri ~ sayuri's past...and what happened...mai saved her from the depts of dispair and from the screen cap above we can all guess what she did to herself... ~ oh my gods...never have i see something as dramatic...the explosion of emotion comming from mai was electric...and never have i seen her talk soo much...it was like her personality has been released from whatever tight bonds that held her in the first place...sayuri getting hammered by one of those demons now she is pissed...and i cant believe that she attempted to kill herself...is yuuichi wasnt there she would have been dead...cries its was rather heart wrenching to watch...i cant even begin to imagine how mai would have felt O.o this time its revenge... and the preview was interesting...so the mai arc is ending...everything will be revealed from the looks of it... solid 10 in my books... __________________ Siggy: hohohohoho~ \| AnimeHistory welcome to our blog ~ \| Summer2009 early review Under the radar series Summer2009: Kanamemo, GA Geijutsuka Art, NEEDLESS

2007-01-05, 08:44	Link #39
velocity7 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Words about Sayuri... Spoiler: Holy crap. Those demons are ruthless. If you thought that the previous episodes with them appearing randomly for no reason meant nothing, think again. Though I wonder why they always attack people that aren't Mai, and actually let Mai live and see these things happen... Words about Yuuichi... Spoiler: I wonder what the hell he's going to do in regards to the demons. He's going in there with a wooden katana, knowing full well these things are MEANT TO KILL. Is he nuts? Crazy? I would at least get something metal before taking on things like these. Here's a couple of suggestions: - Machete (Higurashi-style) - Excalibur from Fate/stay night - Master Sword from Zelda (is Yuuichi a "Chosen One"?) In other notes about Mai... Spoiler: Wow. As Sushi-Y had pointed out, this was definitely one of the craziest (in terms of drama) scenes I've seen thus far. I can't recall far back enough to compare against other anime, but Yuuichi blowing away the sword and holding Mai like that while she was crying... truly awesome. And as for the "I like Sayuri" line, we had subbed it as "I care for Sayuri. I really do. That's why..." as it made the most sense context-wise. I feel that going by "I like Sayuri" or "I love Sayuri" has always been ambiguous, as Yuuichi had also said the same thing in episode 13 with the "Sayuri and I care for you!" line. Of course though, that brings up the matter of Sayuri telling her little brother that she loves him so much, which we left alone. That would be along the lines of, "we don't treat you like a friend, we treat you like our own" sort of thing. The word "love" would definitely work here more. Same holds true for Makoto, as Yuuichi had accepted her as family rather than just a friend or random bystander eating away at his food. __________________ NAOMI Blog