Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 3 Discussion / Poll

[DuelGundam2099]

Those restarined and unarmed people had sent all of those kids to their deaths without a second thought, just so they could have better chances of running away (which, judging by Ortiz's orders, they never had).

That doesn't excuse Mika the murderer's actions. No other gundam protagonist did what he did.

[CelestialNocturne]

Really enjoying this series so far. The emphasis on melee combat over beam-spam (are there even beams in this universe?) and glorified poses mid-fight is a nice change of pace to previous series and the impressive sound-work makes these engagements all the better.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

That doesn't excuse Mika the murderer's actions. No other gundam protagonist did what he did.

I assume you've never seen Gundam Wing where Heero (and the other Gundam pilots, to some extend) has murdered a lot more people for less.

[DuelGundam2099]

Not while they were restrained and unable to fight.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

Not while they were restrained and unable to fight.

Oh yeah sure, destroying a shuttle full of pacifists with a beam saber and blowing up factories and military academies full of innocent workers and freshmen (in their sleep) is sooo much better than offing two thugs who had been oppressing and abusing Mika & his friends for god knows how long .

[Kanon]

This is really great so far. Already washed away the bad taste left by G-reco.

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

I like how Orga says Mika has a sense of honor right after he murders two restrained and unarmed people without warning. That is the main character? Way to make him unlikable and knowing Gundam he isn't going to die. Also who ties people by their thumbs? That is just creepy.

That's precisely what I like about him. He isn't afraid of dirtying his hands and do what needs to be done. My only problem with him is that he seems to have no will of his own. He's little more than Orga's puppet, though neither of them see it that way. Last time I saw such a relationship was in Gungrave, and that didn't end well.

[dienrachen]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

That doesn't excuse Mika the murderer's actions. No other gundam protagonist did what he did.

So what about Setsuna? He was mass-murdering other pilots, all of whom were stuck in suits that couldn't even scratch his Gundam nor run away once he appeared. Those guys never had any chance. That was okay?

As for what excuses Mika's actions and what doesn't, I don't see how the circumstances don't factor in. Mika has killed two people who would have also killed him and all his comrades without giving them any chance to survive. Sure, the Third Group weren't physically bound, but they were just as helpless. They were sent on a certain suicide mission with absolutely no other options or ways out.

To be honest, I only see Mika's action as comeuppance. Both sides had tried to do the same thing, only one being more competent than the other. Not to mention Third Group having more justification than "you kids are worth less than us so you should all die to give our chances a slight boost".

Originally Posted by Kanon

My only problem with him is that he seems to have no will of his own. He's little more than Orga's puppet, though neither of them see it that way. Last time I saw such a relationship was in Gungrave, and that didn't end well.

I don't think it's him being a puppet. Orga always asks him IF he wants to do it... and Mika simply never refuses. Heck, in ep2, Orga even said that he's willing to cancel the whole rebellion if Mika refuses. That's not treating Mika like a tool - more like a co-conspirator.

To me, their relationship feels a symbiosis. They completely depend on each other. Mika needs Orga to give directions, and Orga needs Mika to actually get anywhere. They actually remind me of Sora and Shiro from No Game No Life - Orga being Sora (understanding society and knowing when/how to bluff people), and Mika being Shiro (the raw genius who needs guidance).

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by dienrachen

I don't think it's him being a puppet. Orga always asks him IF he wants to do it... and Mika simply never refuses. Heck, in ep2, Orga even said that he's willing to cancel the whole rebellion if Mika refuses. That's not treating Mika like a tool - more like a co-conspirator.

To me, their relationship feels a symbiosis. They completely depend on each other. Mika needs Orga to give directions, and Orga needs Mika to actually get anywhere. They actually remind me of Sora and Shiro from No Game No Life - Orga being Sora (understanding society and knowing when/how to bluff people), and Mika being Shiro (the raw genius who needs guidance).

As I said, I don't think either of them sees it that way. Orga doesn't consider Mika his puppet, but the fact is, Mika will never refuse anything Orga asks, no matter how unreasonable it is. The term puppet is probably not appropriate since it's not like Orga is trying to manipulate him, but you know what I mean. Mika lives and dies by Orga's orders. He can't even think for himself, he's entirely dependent on Orga. I'm not so sure the same applies to Orga. Mika is a valuable friend to him, but he's not an unreplaceable existence. If he lost him, he'd be able to go on, especially with his great leadership skills. I don't think he actually needs him to get things done, he relies on him because he trusts him the most, no because he can't do anything without him.. If Mika lost Orga, his entire world would crumble.

That's way I see it right now, until we get more insight on their past.

[TheRealWinston]

Not a bad episode, can't wait for the next one.

And somehow, I have the feeling that later Kudelia Aina Bernstein will do that surgery to operate a Mobile Worker/Suit. But that feeling is very weak.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

The character I love most though? The defector from first group. He allows the writer to gives us the audience on what are the more grim options available to Orga, without actually him thinking it. So his presence alone makes the story darker just from suggesting all these underhanded actions Orga could take, kinda like the evil advisor to the king in other stories. Thought he was focused to be shown as needlessly shady in the past episodes despite not being a leader or possessing the system, and now I know why. XD

I thought it was stupid of Orga to have a shady guy like that join. Yeah, I guess you're right in that his presence offers a sinister angle to the group that will more-than-likely be explored at some point, but its almost TOO obvious that he'll betray the group at some point when it is to his advantage(unless he's there as a red herring and its actually the blond guy who will betray everyone).

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

No, Setsuna/Soran is fine the way he is. After all, he lost confidence & interest in the ISIS-like organization he were in and fed up with all the violence early on before CB found him and take him under their wing. So it makes sense that Setsuna already became “softer” than Mika when he launched in his Exia. In fact, I admire Setsuna’s persistent search for answers (for how to make world peace actually works) throughout the series, while Mika is just following his pal. Don’t get me wrong, I like the relationship with between Mika & Orga here but I also like Setsuna/Soran. There’s nothing really wrong with both characters.

I actually somewhat dislike the Mika/Orga relationship =01. Reminds me too much of Loran/Guin. Of course, I like Orga and Mika as individuals, but hated Guin with a passion, so it's not as bad. Still, it pains me to see a Gundam pilot that gives an impression that his only goal is to follow orders with no hint of wanting to do things his own way =0\(I know this statement isnt' completely true[end of duel moment], just in general).

[dienrachen]

Originally Posted by Kanon

As I said, I don't think either of them sees it that way. Orga doesn't consider Mika his puppet, but the fact is, Mika will never refuse anything Orga asks, no matter how unreasonable it is. The term puppet is probably not appropriate since it's not like Orga is trying to manipulate him, but you know what I mean. Mika lives and dies by Orga's orders. He can't even think for himself, he's entirely dependent on Orga. I'm not so sure the same applies to Orga. Mika is a valuable friend to him, but he's not an unreplaceable existence. If he lost him, he'd be able to go on, especially with his great leadership skills. If Mika lost Orga, his entire world would crumble.

That's way I see it right now, until we get more insight on their pasts.

Hmm, I see what you mean. I'm not sure about your insight on Olga though - while he's more socially competent, the carefree&bold guy only smells like a charade to me. He only seems to relax when he's with Mika.

"What are you eating?" - he never came close to asking anyone else such a question. He's either talking to his subordinates (practically everyone) or to his contract (Kudelia). He's only close to Mika.

I can see him going on if Mika died - surviving is big part of what makes these kids themselves. But to be honest, I could see Mika taking a large and very important part of Orga with himself if he was gone.

Or, I could be reading a bunch of nonsense into signs that I have misinterpreted. As you said, we'll see.

[kari-no-sugata II]

Regarding duels, the old man mechanic said that they occurred before the Calamity War, not during.

Anyway, not much world-building in this episode, more about the payoff. btw, anyone get the feeling that "Nobliss" is a title rather than a name? ie the Nobliss Gordon person that Kudelia name drops is just one of many "Nobliss". Probably more like a noble. Since Gordon is referred to as being rich rather than powerful I'd guess that they're not kings but as groups they make up the main power blocks - ie there's factions of them. Or something like that.

Was also interesting to get some example data on just how risky it is to get the Whiskers. Not great odds and can see why it's considered inhumane. Interesting that Kudelia was willing consider using it, even if only for a bit. She's no pacifist that's for sure. Though she changed her mind (physical combat isn't her battlefield) since she was willing to consider it I wonder if we might see a scenario later in the series where she might need it, somehow (cliche option would be a Gundam that requires someone with particular DNA to pilot it).

PS I wonder how much Kudelia trusts Nobliss Gordon but should probably be about as much as that slime-ball Todo...

[DuelGundam2099]

So what about Setsuna? He was mass-murdering other pilots, all of whom were stuck in suits that couldn't even scratch his Gundam nor run away once he appeared. Those guys never had any chance. That was okay?

His kills were all armed and able to fight back, not so much here.

"you kids are worth less than us so you should all die to give our chances a slight boost".

And Mika gave them perfect justification for thinking that way.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

And Mika gave them perfect justification for thinking that way.

So you think that person was justified in using child soldiers for fodder and abusing them in horrific ways? Amazing deduction there.

[Galaxian]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

Not while they were restrained and unable to fight.

Wufei from Gundam Wing blew up a bunch of trainees while they were sleeping in their barracks. These were kids that had not seen battle.

And Setsuna from Gundam 00 killed his parents, while Al from the same series killed all his friends.

[dienrachen]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

His kills were all armed and able to fight back, not so much here.

Able to fight back? WHAT? They had absolutely no chance whatsoever. All those poor devils had were butter knives while Setsuna was armed with a freaking tank... no kinetic projectile could affect the Exia, while every weapon Exia had was instakill against the old-style mobile suits. Oh, and Setsuna was never showing any mercy, unlike say Lockon.

For all the chances they had, Setsuna could have been executing those pilots with a well placed shot to their head. No difference.

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

And Mika gave them perfect justification for thinking that way.

It's the other way around - cause and effect, not effect and cause. They tried to kill all the kids first, getting 48 of them dead for no justifiable reason. That was what gave Orga&Mika the justification, too... not the other way around.

Had the 1st Corps not fled but joined the battle as they have "promised" (lied), Orga wouldn't have decided to rebel against them. They never meant to help of course, and both sides knew that with abundant clarity.

[Patriot's Blade]

to be fair Heero was programmed from ground up like a Terminator, he is the most robotic of the five Gundam Pilots, if only the English dub gave him an Austrian accent or something as he spouts cheesy one liners

[DuelGundam2099]

Able to fight back? WHAT? They had absolutely no chance whatsoever.

Fighting with weapons with intent to kill is fighting with weapons with intent to kill. They were not restrained and drugged first.

Wufei from Gundam Wing blew up a bunch of trainees while they were sleeping in their barracks. These were kids that had not seen battle.

They were still combat capable.

[Galaxian]

Originally Posted by DuelGundam2099

They were still combat capable.

They were SLEEPING! There was no combat! Wufei went in, planted explosive on their barracks, waited until the STUDENTS went to sleep, and then blew them to hell!

[frubam]

Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata II

PS I wonder how much Kudelia trusts Nobliss Gordon but should probably be about as much as that slime-ball Todo...

Yeah, instantly imagined 'a sleazeball who wanted to marry Kudelia with money'. Hopefully I'm wrong. Worse would him being a guy like Guin(∀), who will use Tekkadan and Kudelia as puppets to further his own agendas =01(though I guess he'll need to get SOMETHING out of the deal).