AnoHana - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by SoFarGone

no Menma needs to leave their lives. Everybody needs to move on. If Anjou and Yukiatstu go on a date next episode I think its going to be short. Tsuruko and Yukiastu somehow will end up together by the end of the episode leading to the finale to see Jintan give an answer to Anjou's confession while Menma finally disappears to the other world.

Agree with this. Though it would be nice if Anjou x Jintan did happen.

[darkmanure]

I'm starting to think Jinta will be alone at the end, alone but pushing ahead instead of stuck in the past.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by miketyson

Spoiler for Silly Question:

Did Jinta just die at the end? He took a rather ridiculous fall didn't he?

I hope that's not our big twist. Notably he could see a shadow under Menma, when up until now I don't think we've seen her cast a shadow (I checked in this episode and she doesn't seem to have been before).

I guess it's possible Menma's now "real" too, somehow. Is there anyone who's been obsessively tracking whether or not Menma has a shadow?

Note: it's not a "full" shadow, just a smallish one underneath her while he's out in the water and she's waiting for him. It seems to be what Jinta notices right near the end of the episode.

Spoiler for 9:

I definitely don't think he saw a shadow under Menma. I'm 100% sure he cast a shadow on the water and she didn't - and that she had no reflection. That's probably what he was staring at.

What unsettles me was the slow-mo of the splash when Jintan dived into the water. Signifying what?

[Ziziphus]

Great episode! But why do I feel that things are getting more complicated instead of resolved?

I so hope they won't rush the ending.

About ED: are those some new shots of the girls that I saw? (or maybe I just missed them from previous episodes for whatever reason. >_>) Anyway, I made some gifs and sticks from those shots because I friggin' love them:

...

[Mizz-Bubblez]

no Menma needs to leave their lives. Everybody needs to move on. If Anjou and Yukiatstu go on a date next episode I think its going to be short. Tsuruko and Yukiastu somehow will end up together by the end of the episode leading to the finale to see Jintan give an answer to Anjou's confession while Menma finally disappears to the other world.

I would love that where all the characters end happy some way, but I am skeptical for such an ending considering who wrote the story.

[serenade_beta]

Super jealousy machine, Yukiatsu Muneatsu.
You thought he was over being hilarious after he was caught crossdressing, but he proves to be great again, be it kicking the fence (No, Tsuruko, he was broken way before, clearly) or asking Anal to date him because they are similar or whatever his imagination brought him to.

In the meantime, Tsuruko... It would have been priceless if she was voiced by KitaEri...

Episode felt a bit lacking in development, but it did feel like a needed transition episode. Seems the end will be the fireworks.

[garbage]

too bad for anaru
well, really the most difficult rivals are the ones the are "no longer there" especially if the death was as traumatic as it was for their group.
i wonder why anaru keeps doing her hair that way with those strange twin tails sticking up she looks way cuter with her hair down imho, and she looks great in the preview with the hat.
still i would want them ( jintan and anaru ) to be together in the end to get on with their life, they would be good for each other. [unless we have a jintan dying ending and he goes together with menma ehehe]

yukiatsu as usual just comes across as creepy for me....

The bridge was ... scary? my heart skipped a beat... i thought menma fell in, like a reenactment of her accident before. and whats with her going in the river will she disappear if she does? because she died that way? guess wait for next episode for answers.

edit : come to think of it , Japanese believe when you die you cross some river, cant recall the exact name tho, that might be a reference of sorts.

[Triple_R]

I really, really liked this episode.

Spoiler for Episode 9 thoughts:

I felt that Okada hit just the right note in how the rest of the gang reacted to the revelation that Ghost Menma is actually amongst them.

I'm glad that Anaru and Tsuruko were creeped out a bit at the beginning of the episode. I think that a lot of people would be if in their situation.

I liked how Yukiatsu accepted that, yes, Menma is really there, but he is still seriously pissed that he himself can't see her or talk directly with her. His jealousy of Jinta is palpable, and understandable. It adds good drama and tension to the plot.

Likewise, Anaru's emotions came out very nicely here, and I liked how Yukiatsu openly stated how she and him are kindred spirits.

I liked the multifaceted romantic conflicts going on here, and how they played out in this episode. Hinting at a possible Yukiatsu/Anaru relationship makes that more interesting for me, as even now I'm not really swallowing Menma the Ghost as a serious romance option for Jinta or Yukitatsu going forward.


I felt that Menma's dad came off really well, and so did how Yukiatsu responded to him.

I also liked seeing Tsuruko getting a lot of screentime in this. She had very good dialogue in this, and she carries herself with a certain dignity and sophistication that helps round out and balance the cast nicely, imo.

Every scene in this I liked, really. The execution was splendid.


My only issues are, of course, the premise itself is a bit hard to swallow and may take some getting used to now that it's front and center and undeniable. The way I feel about this episode, and much of this anime really, is that the situation isn't realistic, but the way the characters respond to it is.

Furthermore, I'm a bit unnerved at the possible foreshadowing here of Menma somehow coming back to life fully. I hope that Okada doesn't go down that route, but the way Jinta keeps talking about not letting Menma go, I have to wonder...


Still, a very pleasant, excellently executed, and even slightly amusing episode. Definitely deserves a 9/10 from me.

[SoFarGone]

oh yea forgot to mention this: there's a chance Jintan might stop the fireworks because he doesn't want Menma to go. Probably won't anyway since fireworks probably isn't the wish.

[Guardian Enzo]

I really need to start composing my thoughts after watching an episode of this show before blogging it, so much happens every damn week - but it's churning around and needs to come out. The blog review:

Just a couple of general thoughts, somewhat in response to RRR's post:

Spoiler for Speculation on the River Scene:

I don't think the hinting here is that Menma is coming back to life - rather, I think the hinting may (and I hate, hate, hate suggesting it) that Jintan is going to die. Consider:

- The river representing the barrier between this world and the afterlife is nothing new - it's literally older than the Greeks. But the symbolism here was pretty obvious. From the moment Menma felt that cold breeze and saw the ghost carp, that river scene was magical - and ominous. Clearly, it was a hugely important moment for the series.

- Jintan finally admitted that he wanted Menma to "stay around forever". Immediately afterward, he looked at the water and noted with a frown that she had no reflection. So she can't stay around forever - not in the world of the living. But what he said could be interpreted as "I want Menma to stay with me forever."

- Please note the long, lingering, slow-motion shot of Jintan jumping into the water. The splash, all of it. The river that has such obvious symbolic import, the river he was so adamant that Mernma not step into that he almost broke his neck racing down the embankment to stop her.

In some ways, I think a case could be made than Jintan died when Menma died. He'd already lost his mother, and how his beloved childhood sweetheart. He retreated inside himself - became a hikikomori, had no joy in his life at all. Until Menma came back, anyway. Maybe what Jintan really wants is to be together with Menma and his mother, and the only way for that to happen is for him to cross the river.

Mind you, that's speculation. I'd bet my house that the river scene was colossally important, but there's enough potential symbolism there for me to be off base. Did Menma die in that river? That could account for a lot. And I certainly hope that this isn't the case - indeed, I've resisted the notion that he could be dying since it was first proposed. I hope that isn't the way this is headed - but for the first time, I really feel as though it might be.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I really need to compose my thoughts after watching an episode of this show before blogging it, so much happens every damn week - but it's churning around and needs to come out. The review:

Just a couple of general thoughts, somewhat in response to RRR's post:

Spoiler for Speculation on the River Scene:

I don't think the hinting here is that Menma is coming back to life - rather, I think the hinting may (and I hate, hate, hate suggesting it) that Jintan is going to die. Consider:

- The river representing the barrier between this world and the afterlife is nothing new - it's literally older than the Greeks. But the symbolism here was pretty obvious. From the moment Menma felt that cold breeze and saw the ghost carp, that river scene was magical - and ominous. Clearly, it was a hugely important moment for the series.

- Jintan finally admitted that he wanted Menma to "stay around forever". Immediately afterward, he looked at the water and noted with a frown that she had no reflection. So she can't stay around forever - not in the world of the living. But what he said could be interpreted as "I want Menma to stay with me forever."

- Please note the long, lingering, slow-motion shot of Jintan jumping into the water. The splash, all of it. The river that has such obvious symbolic import, the river he was so adamant that Mernma not step into that he almost broke his neck racing down the embankment to stop her.

In some ways, I think a case could be made than Jintan died when Menma died. He'd already lost his mother, and how his beloved childhood sweetheart. He retreated inside himself - became a hikikomori, had no joy in his life at all. Until Menma came back, anyway. Maybe what Jintan really wants is to be together with Menma and his mother, and the only way for that to happen is for him to cross the river.

Mind you, that's speculation. I'd bet my house that the river scene was colossally important, but there's enough potential symbolism there for me to be off base. Did Menma die in that river? That could account for a lot. And I certainly hope that this isn't the case - indeed, I've resisted the notion that he could be dying since it was first proposed. I hope that isn't the way this is headed - but for the first time, I really feel as though it might be.

Spoiler for Brief response:

Hhmmm... you could be right. That is another way, and perhaps a more natural way, of taking Jinta's comments.

While I'd actually prefer this to Menma magically coming back to life, it also wouldn't be how I'd like to see the anime end.

So, yeah, I don't like the idea of Jinta dying either.

Truthfully, I don't think Okada needs to do anything plot twisty at this point. The premise of the show is different enough as is, and that alone gives it a distinctive feel.

So, at this juncture, I agree with the opinion that you've been voicing for awhile now. In other words, that a simple end where the gang gets back together and Menma moves on through her wish being achieved (while the gang comes to grips with losing her) would probably be for the best.

But the more I think about it, the more I think the idea of Jinta dying could very well fit the hints that we've seen. The question of "Why does Menma only appear to Jinta?" is one that still hasn't really been answered concretely yet. Maybe it's because she can't move on to the afterlife until Jinta comes with her...

[Master Chibi]

I don't know what the hell to think at this point.

Shit, I'm rightly overwhelmed at this point.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Spoiler for Brief response:

Hhmmm... you could be right. That is another way, and perhaps a more natural way, of taking Jinta's comments.

While I'd actually prefer this to Menma magically coming back to life, it also wouldn't be how I'd like to see the anime end.

So, yeah, I don't like the idea of Jinta dying either.

Truthfully, I don't think Okada needs to do anything plot twisty at this point. The premise of the show is different enough as is, and that alone gives it a distinctive feel.

So, at this juncture, I agree with the opinion that you've been voicing for awhile now. In other words, that a simple end where the gang gets back together and Menma moves on through her wish being achieved (while the gang comes to grips with losing her) would probably be for the best.

But the more I think about it, the more I think the idea of Jinta dying could very well fit the hints that we've seen. The question of "Why does Menma only appear to Jinta?" is one that still hasn't really been answered concretely yet. Maybe it's because she can't move on to the afterlife until Jinta comes with her...

Spoiler for Re-response:

Bolded the key phrase, one I wholeheartedly agree with.

I can accept that ending if it happens, mind you - while it wouldn't be my choice I don't think it would be a betrayal of the spirit of the series. But not only for the reasons I've stated and the ones you refer to above, I don't think it's the best way to go. I'd really prefer something a little more life-affirming, as pat as that sounds. Really, it's kind of a depressing message if there's no other path to happiness for Jintan but to die - especially given that he has a father and a friend who love him dearly and would - quite literally, it seems - do anything for him.

Jintan is the main character here, no question about it - this has been his journey more than anyone else's. While by far my dominant feeling for the character is positive - I deeply sympathize with him and can imagine the pain he's suffered - a strong case could be made that he's a pretty selfish guy. In closing himself off he's certainly hurt his father and Anaru, though not through an ounce of maliciousness - but he's been so consumed with his own pain that he hasn't seen the pain he's been causing others. Menma's return has - ironically - brought him back to life. It would be a much more positive message if that return was the catalyst for him to grow up and accept and appreciate the love of his father and his friends than it would be if her role was to guide him to the next life.

Of course, if you're a believer in OPs and EDs as spoilers, I don't see much foreshadowing of this theory there - Jintan is lumped in with the living Busters there, and Menma is the odd one out.

[Sackett]

I think that symbolism fits very well Enzo, however, it might just be an expression of Jintan's attempt to cross the boundary of death, and a revelation of how impossible it is for him.

Thus the river represents the boundary of the dead from the living, hence Menma's attraction to it. Jintan rushes down there to try and stop Menma from crossing. Then Jintan tries to cross it himself in Menma's place. Time slows down as he tries to cross the barrier, but he can't. For Jintan it's just a river. Then he looks back and sees the evidence that Menma is already dead (has no reflection). Somehow the riverbank has changed sides, and he's still on the side of the living while Menma is on the side of the dead.

Jintan is separated from her, and he can't change that.

Instead of foreshadowing a future plotline, I think it's representing Jintan's character development since the start of the show, and now a conscious revelation to Jintan of what he's been learning all this time. That he can't go back to those days of having Menma with them all together as the Super Peace Busters.

Just like everyone else, Jintan is having trouble letting go of the past, but I think he's beginning to see that no matter how hard he holds on, the past isn't there to hold.

At least that's how I interpret the scene.

Also, why are you putting all this in spoilers? It's just speculation, not actual spoilers.

[MeoTwister5]

To further elaborate on what Sackett was saying, I'd say that Jinta's observations on the river/creek further reinforces the irony that while Jinta seems to be the one most active in finding a way for Menma to fulfill her wish, he is also the one most invested and likely to be most affected when he finally succeeds, in that he is the one who tries the hardest to succeed but has the most to lose when he does.

This really strengthens the notion that Menma's appearance to Jinta and so far only to him was due to reasons greater than mere chance or mere closeness; he is by far the one in need most of closure and the need to move on. He now knows that his actions on behalf of Menma may as well have been classified as his own attempts to get back the days he spent with her, to relive the days so to speak (no pun intended), but now he knows that by doing so he will finally lose her to the afterlife. He perhaps now knows that his actions weren't as noble as he thought; he was ultimately doing it for his own benefit as well.

But now he understands the end result of his actions, that he was both selfless and selfish, but in the end as Sackett said things don't last forever even for the dead. Everyone will have to cross that river some day, it's just that Menma had to do it earlier than they did. Whether or not they'd meet again on the other said, as a group of friends, at the end of human mortality pretty much depends on whether you believe in an afterlife.

The similarities to the scene with the River Styx in Greek is actually sort of uncanny if not scary.

Blog post to follow.

[Guardian Enzo]

Sackett and Meo, your interpretations (which if you'll permit me to lump together, I believe are materially the same) certainly are plausible. They make as much such as mine - both fit with the episode and with the general symbolism I see at play here. At this point there's just no way to know - as I said, I hope my theory is wrong and there are many interpretations that fit.

As for the spoiler tags, well - while the bulk of what RRR and I posted was speculation, someone who hadn't watched the episode wouldn't know the scene I was referring to in the first place - and though this is an episode-specific thread, on the same day as airing I'd rather play it safe, just in case.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

As for the spoiler tags, well - while the bulk of what RRR and I posted was speculation, someone who hadn't watched the episode wouldn't know the scene I was referring to in the first place - and though this is an episode-specific thread, on the same day as airing I'd rather play it safe, just in case.

Yeah, that's the main reason why I used spoilers as well.

That, and to save space.

[Freeter]

So now Menma's in full force with the whole poltergeist routine of floating objects and invisible scribbles...if I were Poppo, I'd be making money off of that

I'm not throwing any death flags on Jinta. That would be such a cop out if they went that route, plus they've been giving strong hints that he and Anaru are going to end up together. Without him she'd be devastated, and the whole Yukiatsu nonsense is just there to stir Tsuruko drama (heck, she's gotta do something before this is all over ).

Seems Menma's dad isn't the angry beast others made him out to be. He's definitely going to be the one to convince the mom to give the greenlight for the fireworks, along with the younger brother.

Originally Posted by garbage

The bridge was ... scary? my heart skipped a beat... i thought menma fell in, like a reenactment of her accident before.

That's exactly what they were going for, with the zoom-in on the river and that perfectly timed sound effect. Now we know exactly how it happened, the only question left is why. Was it truly an accident, or did someone instigate the fall?

If it's the latter, then my money's on Poppo, especially after how that whole scene between him and Menma abruptly ended like that. The conclusion of that scene is likely going to come back into play later, possibly during a confrontation between him and Jinta (and since Poppo's bigger than Yukiatsu, Jinta better hope Menma pulls some dirty tricks to give him a fighting chance ).

[MeoTwister5]

The possibility of him dying is... well... the only way this would be even remotely believable would be either:

1. He dies by his own hand to be with her (and I for one refuse to accept this).
2. He dies in a manner similar to how she died. (more acceptable, but I still don't like it).

The suggestion that he may follow in her footsteps across the river of death is possible. He may, if he so chooses, follow her beyond the living into death. The thing is everything here and now has been about living beyond the specter of death and not about joining it. To me, having Jinta die defeats the purpose of a person's attempt not be be shackled to the past and live on beyond the day when time seemed to have stood still. At most I see that event as Jinta's brush with death, to help him gain perspective about what living and dying really means, and how death is ultimately unique to the one who dies and is nothing anyone can really feel until it happens.

For reference I'd point to Kierkegaard's The Sickness Unto Death, but my point being that this to me at most would be a close call on his side, that he ALMOST died in the same manner that Menma died, allowing him as close a view of death (specifically Menma's) as anyone will be able to get.

[DragoonKain3]

I dunno, got a feeling that Tsuruko might be the one most 'responsible' for Menma's death. Not being creeped out by levitating food, but being creeped out once its a pointy object? Not only that, but signs of yandere here and there (especially during the YukiAnaru scene), AND she's the one who put out the idea that maybe Menma hasn't moved on because Menma hasn't forgiven them yet (which she might be very well talking about herself, like Yukiatsu does). I might be wrong (I HOPE I'm wrong), but something is fishy regardless lol (pardon the pun).


On the whole though, I REALLY liked this episode. Especially the part where Jintan thought Menma was gone; really had me anxious if it really was true, and the ramifications of Menma gone from his life. My heart was really thumping in anticipation of what's coming next, even though I knew Menma couldn't have disappeared this early in the series.