2010-08-28, 09:17 | Link #3841 | |
MUDKIP MUD!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Beside a road, next to a tree
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they should just give zerg a big buff and leave the toss alone.
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2010-08-28, 09:42 | Link #3842 | |
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
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2010-08-28, 09:49 | Link #3843 | |
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
Graphic Designer
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And it almost sounds like you are trying to say that toss are easier to use than the other races... I still don't get why zealots have their production time increased. Oh boy I'm going to have more fun being 6 pooled now
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2010-08-28, 09:52 | Link #3844 | |||
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
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^ Zealot time's up as an anti-proxy measure, I think it was a good idea...
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2010-08-28, 10:54 | Link #3846 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: ¯\(º_o)/¯
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SC2 is great. Still the same style of RTS as the first with lots of very distinct features that sets it apart from the orginal. If you're expecting exactly the same game. Don't. It's similar in play but that's around it.
Battlenet 2.0 on the otherhand unfortunately takes one step forward and two steps backwards. I despise it so much. (Warning, battlenet 2.0 rant incoming.) Just moments earlier, i joined a custom map game. Game has half full and it didn't take long to fill up and get a full house. Great i thought to myself, "lets play!". The host was afk. What does that mean you ask? It pretty much means you don't get to play that map because Bnet 0.2 automatically shoves you into a game which it thinks is best for you. In this case it kept shoving me into the same stupid game with that afk host who won't press start. You can't kick him, you can't vote for a new host, you can't even organise another game with the other people stuck in the same boat because you can't choose which game to join in the first place, you can't do jack squat. Bnet 0.2; fuck you! Eventually i did get to play the map by hosting it myself, needless to say there's a reason why i wanted to join a game and not host it myself, my connectoin can't host for peanuts. I tried dumping the hosting privileges onto someone else, but they just kept passing the buck till it went full circle back to me again. Wasn't a very enjoyable experience as you may've imagined. I fucking love Bnet 2.0 Quote:
Since i was already half-way through i figured i'd go ahead and post it anyway, talk about being blinded by rage lol . I think Toss is actually the most forgiving race to marco, epecially considering warp gates and chrono boost. Warp gates practically give you instant units. Forgot to macro your buildings while you were day-dreaming about? That's cool your units pop out instantly anyway Do that with any other race and you're stuck waiting an extra half a minute or however long on top of that time you wasted not macroing up
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2010-08-28, 11:39 | Link #3847 |
~Omedetô~
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere between heaven and hell !
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Well for me .
Easiest to hardest : - Terran : Easy easy easy , Hit&Run Powaaa !!! - Zerg : Mass units , Speed "Glings glings" ! Burrow/xplode/harass muta/nydus/infestor... - Protoss : Expensive cost for strong units , shield regen , unit's position is very important (ex : Zealot on the front , Stalker behind , Immortal above them , Sentry between them using Shield and prepare to force field) , mistake = "increase lose rate" , I still think that Micro Protoss is the hardest . En Taro Tassadar !! |
2010-08-28, 11:51 | Link #3848 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Protoss is easier than Zerg, due to Queen management and the Larvae system. Most of your units are useless in the long run if you don't spread creep, while you also have to manage your larvaes limited to how many hatcheries+queens you have.
You also can't spontaneously make units like the Barrack/Warp Gate system, unless they scouted really well (And that usually requires sacrificing an Overload later in the game.) It also doesn't help that the Marines and Stalkers are better utility units than the Hyrdralisks because they're either way cheaper tech units, or have better abilities (Blink.) |
2010-08-28, 11:56 | Link #3849 | |||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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And I think you are mistaking the definition of strategy anyway. Units are part of a strategy, regardless how they contribute. Even cheese "is" a strategy. Now calling one type of units "cheap shot" is rather ludicrous since it depends how the player is using them. Quote:
Not true theorycraft, if anyone sees a flaw in that train of thought, please correct me: In theory, it is rather better for protoss to actually upgrade armor first. Because Shield does regenerate, but HP do not. Due to this obvious point, you would rather try to lessen damage dealt on protoss HP than its shield. Especially that it is arguably better to have a better defensive stats than having 2 mediocre defense stats, due the way how damage are dealt in SCII (you rather want +1 armor for zealots so they have +2 armor, instead of having +1 shield and natural 1 armor). And armor is much better because in a prolonged fight, you rarely have the time to actually withdraw, regenerate shield and go back to the fray. Finally, a vast majority of protoss units have more HP than shields, thus, you would benefit armor more than shields on the long run (I'm not saying that shield is useless, since it is part of a protoss unit "HP" anyway). In fact, mathematically, armor would by far top over the benefit of shield. Shield is expensive just because it affect all protoss units. Because of these 2 major points, it is no wonder that you rarely see any early protoss shield upgrade, whereas weapon or armor are much more favored. Quote:
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You implied how well it can fare with the various units, but suddenly, you "just don't need every research". Yet, you are complaining of... "cheap shot" strategies, while these units need investment? I mean, yeah investing in HT, but if you don't invest with the amulet and psi storm, it is rather moot. I see little relevancy to your very first comment after all of this, since you were basically implying that protoss had it easy with tech, whereas they basically had to sail the same way than zerg. Terran has it "easier" as you can basically shuffle your way with the add ons, but the advantage of it is counterbalanced with the fact you deny yourself some units if you lose a certain add on, so it is fair. By the way, Chargelots are hardly a true counter to MM ball, not just because of stim abuse, but also concussive shell. Even with charge, a decent terran player would just micro their marauders group and obliterate chargelots with little casualties. And it is laughable for a race to resort of using T2-3 against a mass of T1 units. MM ball is troublesome because it is a cookie cutter strategy that doesn't require much research and sticks with... a ridicilous T1 tech.
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2010-08-28, 12:17 | Link #3850 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: 28° 37', North ; 77° 13', East
Age: 33
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As a zerg player I'm only interested in one thing with patch 1.1 .. well.. thats not true, rather I'm curious about one thing. with the extra time on reapers and zealots, will we see a return of the 14 pool 15 hatch? now THAT could make a good amount of difference.
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2010-08-28, 12:56 | Link #3851 | ||||
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
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Back to shields: toss units cannot regen HP, so maxing their shields for surgical strikes or pure harassment would guarantee complete units. Would you keep unitswith half HP in an army, if their shields are full? About Ghosts: proper scouting allows the ever so handy HT feedback counter, and if there's ghosts inside the enemy ball, you can blink through shells and go out of your way to snipe the perpetrator. Quote:
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2010-08-28, 13:17 | Link #3852 | ||||||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Zealots are only kept more or less as a base units because they have to soak damage. As much as lings are used to disrupt auto attack and surround. But by no means you can just sick around with 2-3 units for a game that go beyond 15-20 minutes. You will never see people sticking with zea/stalkers/colossi, unless their opponent is very bad and doesn't switch into things like vikings / mutas. Quote:
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A unit with either upgrade will have their shield regenerating if they survive the tale. However, the one with the armor upgrade WILL have more chances for that: 1) more HP than shield syndrome 2) natural armor factored. Here are the maths: Marine without any upgrade (so 6 dmg) against a zealot: -shield upgrade +1 (so 1 shield, 1 armor): it takes the marine 10 shots for the shield, then additional 20 for the zealot HP, so total of 30 -Armor upgrade +1 (so 0 shield, 2 armor): it takes the marine 8 shots but then 26 shots. So a total of 34 shots to take down the zealot It is simple math and logic here. Your unit will be more resilient since they have more Hp than shield in most case, and More armor = having HP = staying alive = more chance to recover the shield. In all case, it does NOT make sense to take shield over armor, except 1 unit: Archon. Quote:
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Let's review here the issue: Charge requires 200/200 AND twilight council Blink requires 150/150 AND cybernetic core meanwhile: Stim pack requires 150/150 and tech lab concussive shell requires 50/50 and tech lab. Furthermore, what is any useful to use stalkers against marauders? Anyone would be a suicidal maniac, considering marauders do a wooping 20 dmg on stalkers, shield on or off. And kiting is actually not even possible because of stim packs. There is nothing you can do, expect waiting for them to be in a choke and use forcefield, abusing the splitting reinforcement and the ramp vision (hoping your sentry isn't sniped). Marauders just screw -every- gateway units, and you can only bet on a successful forcefield, or using higher tier units, which is stupid as heck. Even a mere 5 marauders rush can smash a conventional protoss opening.
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2010-08-28, 13:18 | Link #3853 | |
Counter Force
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Too tire to comment about anything else right now, though. Watching MLG for 3-4 hours straight in the middle of the night is tiring, lol.
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2010-08-28, 13:38 | Link #3854 | |||
Senior Guest
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Athens (GMT+2)
Age: 35
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Stim packs don't come free of charge, they deal a "whooping" 20 damage per use and last for just one skirmish. Stalkers against marauders because they're anti-armour and are the first ranged units you can get.
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2010-08-28, 13:52 | Link #3855 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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We aren't in brood war. Quote:
Against, there is no viable reason to go for shield first, economically or efficieny speaking.
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2010-08-28, 13:55 | Link #3856 |
Counter Force
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Guys, I think discussing too deep into "Balancing" issue would cause unnecessary drama since different people usually have different idea about balancing imba things. And I don't think we can change anything by just discussing it here too. The patch is not even come out yet, so let's just see how it goes...
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2010-08-28, 16:09 | Link #3859 | |||
On a mission
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You can argue that a hurt army at max supply is weaker than a healthy one, but usually units die too fast anyways for this to become an issue; you're usually replacing them anyways. Micro in Starcraft is about getting the most mileage out of a unit, and that's not always keeping them alive. The fact is most units won't survive a battle, regardless of shields or not. Quote:
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2010-08-28, 16:21 | Link #3860 |
~Official Slacker~
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Xanadu
Age: 29
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So upgrading the armor of your troops is a little bit longer then upgrading the weapons?
(On another hand) I just got this replay of me barely beating this Protoss player as Zerg, it was really a close call, I would have lost to his Colossi if I dint have my Corrupters. A very close match indeed. http://www.sc2replayed.com/replays/6...-scrap-station
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blizzard, starcraft, windows |
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