Haruhi Suzumiya - Spoilers & Speculation (for experienced Haruhi Fans only)

[ac195]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't think that the kiss did much for her on a long-term basis. I really don't.

The constant frown is gone.
Shes having more fun with her antics.
Over all, her mood has been lightened a bit.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I understand where HaruhiKyon shippers want to see this, but... Haruhi's cold facial expressions when she was sitting in class the next day, staring out the window, barely having anything to say to Kyon...

It's called tsundere, man.

Learn it, live it, love it.

[Kogetsu Shirogane]

"Haruhi is not tsundere!"

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kogetsu Shirogane

"Haruhi is not tsundere!"

She totally is. Just one that is in no way typical.

This scene, f'r instance:

[Jonbob0008]

Not to mention Haruhi was really tired and somewhat cranky from a lack of sleep. Like Kyon, she was up all night after that "dream."

[quigonkenny]

Originally Posted by dragon4dudes

The extremists could be a mix of each of the four parties mentioned. Same with the Main School. On a values based standpoint, the extremists are radicals or far right conservatives (probably the former), the main school are mostly liberal, and then there's the conservatives? In other words there may only be four parties but different schools of thought. I thought of like you could be a main school compromise or an extremist thinker...

Trying to translate this into real-life politics is inevitably going to fail and is only going to expose your own bias. One of the things I've always loved about Tanigawa's writing since I started reading Haruhi is that it is blissfully apolitical. Nothing more annoying to be reading some excellently paced, dramatically written, intricately plotted prose only for it all to come to a screeching halt so the author can try to make some (at best) tangentially-related point about something IRL.

I'm talking to you, Eoin Colfer...

Besides, if you absolutely must translate internal Data Overmind politics to real world politics, Yuki (main school) attempts to maintain the status quo and not get involved unless necessary, while Ryoko (extremist) is all about change for change's sake. You've got it backwards.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

It's called tsundere, man.

Learn it, live it, love it.

Why do people think that not liking an anime trope (or, at least, how overused it is) means that you're not aware of the trope? I'm well aware of what a tsundere is.

Kogetsu Shirogane basically sums up my response to this - Haruhi is not tsundere. She's more complex than that, in my opinion.

I feel like I need to stress again - I'm not calling Haruhi mildly sociopathic because I want to hate the character... or compare myself positively towards her. That's not even running through my mind, Kaisos - why would a late 20s guy compare himself to a fictional 15 year old girl?

Quite the contrary - I tend to like characters with dynamic and unusual personality types. Sociopaths can be fun you know (as fictional characters, of course).

Incidentally, I really don't want to think of Haruhi as a tsundere, the most over-used trope character type of them all.

Haruhi has a distinct personality that doesn't waver randomly back and forth between harsh one minute, and sweet the next. How nice (or not) she is depends almost entirely on how entertained she is. Smooth and logical.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Incidentally, I really don't want to think of Haruhi as a tsundere, the most over-used trope character type of them all.

How is it overused?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Haruhi has a distinct personality that doesn't waver randomly back and forth between harsh one minute, and sweet the next. How nice (or not) she is depends almost entirely on how entertained she is. Smooth and logical.

I mean tsundere as in "loudly denying obvious feelings you have for someone" rather than the hot/cold flip...

And nor do I really think Haruhi is that complex or original. Honestly, I don't even like her character as much as I like the Kyon/Haruhi pairing.

Kyon and Koizumi are the only major characters in Haruhi I really like, for that matter...

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Why do people think that not liking an anime trope (or, at least, how overused it is) means that you're not aware of the trope? I'm well aware of what a tsundere is.

Kogetsu Shirogane basically sums up my response to this - Haruhi is not tsundere. She's more complex than that, in my opinion.

I feel like I need to stress again - I'm not calling Haruhi mildly sociopathic because I want to hate the character... or compare myself positively towards her. That's not even running through my mind, Kaisos - why would a late 20s guy compare himself to a fictional 15 year old girl?

Quite the contrary - I tend to like characters with dynamic and unusual personality types. Sociopaths can be fun you know (as fictional characters, of course).

Incidentally, I really don't want to think of Haruhi as a tsundere, the most over-used trope character type of them all.

Haruhi has a distinct personality that doesn't waver randomly back and forth between harsh one minute, and sweet the next. How nice (or not) she is depends almost entirely on how entertained she is. Smooth and logical.

I think you can call Haruhi a tsudere. She has a 'tsuntsun'(standard) mode and a 'deredere'(like in the end of disappearance) mode. This don't mean she is a normal tsudere.

You said you don't like she being a tsundere because it is the "most over-used trope character type". Well, Suzumiya Haruhi runs in clichés. This is not bad. Bad wud be if she was a normal tsundere, like Shana or Akane. She is not, she is her own kind.

[Tyabann]

She's more like Asuka of Evangelion fame, honestly... but whereas Asuka was a deconstruction of 'tsundere', Haruhi is 'tsundere' with a vastly different personality type than usual attached.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

How is it overused?

I'm assuming this is a joke. If so, it's a good one.

I mean tsundere as in "loudly denying obvious feelings you have for someone" rather than the hot/cold flip...

And nor do I really think Haruhi is that complex or original.

Dude, she's an extremely powerful reality altering deity who's actually unaware of how powerful she is, requires constant entertainment, loves - no, scratch that, needs - to have rivals to challenge herself against, is very proud of her accomplishments (until they seem boring to her; then she doesn't care about them at all), actively basks in the pop culture and traditions of her country (and yet finds ordinary people boring - mind-boggling inner contradiction), likes flashy costuming and putting on movies and plays and doing concerts, has a complete obsession over the concept of aliens, espers, and time travelers... she's like the Energizer Bunny turned into an anime school girl given high-end reality altering powers and longing to be a leadership figure that butts heads with rivals and enjoys the fervent support of her subordinates... who she actually calls subordinates. On top of that, she's a mystery detective super-sleuth that's heavily into sci-fi and the supernatural.

Tsundere's typically are more anti-social than Haruhi - they have maybe one or two friends that they care about, and popularity/control over others means zilch to them. It means everything to Haruhi. Tsundere's also have much more clear-cut goals than Haruhi does.

Originally Posted by Heatth

I think you can call Haruhi a tsudere. She has a 'tsuntsun'(standard) mode and a 'deredere'(like in the end of disappearance) mode. This don't mean she is a normal tsudere.

You said you don't like she being a tsundere because it is the "most over-used trope character type". Well, Suzumiya Haruhi runs in clichés. This is not bad. Bad wud be if she was a normal tsundere, like Shana or Akane. She is not, she is her own kind.

I'm glad you raised Shana and Akane. Now, how many interests do Shana and Akane have?

Shana - Killing tomogara (and keeping Yuji alive)

Akane - Successfully running her father's dojo once she inherits it (and being a great martial artist). Other than that, getting through school.


Haruhi's ambitions are way more complex than that.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

She's more like Asuka of Evangelion fame, honestly... but whereas Asuka was a deconstruction of 'tsundere', Haruhi is 'tsundere' with a vastly different personality type than usual attached.

Well, the point is she is not like the hundred of tsundere you seen in anime. She is unique.


PP:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I'm glad you raised Shana and Akane. Now, how many interests do Shana and Akane have?

Shana - Killing tomogara (and keeping Yuji alive)

Akane - Successfully running her father's dojo once she inherits it (and being a great martial artist). Other than that, getting through school.


Haruhi's ambitions are way more complex than that.

Ok. Agree. How this make her less tsundere? She is just a good, conplex, tsundere, but still a tsundere

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Heatth

Well, the point is she is not like the hundred of tsundere you seen in anime. She is unique.


PP:



Ok. Agree. How this make her less tsundere? She is just a good, conplex, tsundere, but still a tsundere

Let me put it this way - I would probably say that Haruhi is 10% tsundere... but it's the other 90% that defines her and makes her unique. I personally think that labeling a character based on what they are 10% of the time isn't the way to go. That's just my take, though.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Let me put it this way - I would probably say that Haruhi is 10% tsundere... but it's the other 90% that defines her and makes her unique. I personally think that labeling a character based on what they are 10% of the time isn't the way to go. That's just my take, though.

I don't know if you could use percentage for this kinda of thing

But, yeah, I agree. She is a tsundere, but this don't mean she is only a tsundere nor that this is the most important aspect of her personality.

However, the original point still, she don't show liking Kyon cause she is a tsundere (it is how the discussion begun right?)

Like at the end of Melancholy, she was obvious moved by her 'dream', so she wered a pony tail for Kyon. She, being a tsundere (but not only that) don't even look to his face, even though she changed her hair style to please him (even if she is in denial for the last part). She even relate pony tail to Kyon some days latter, when she gived up giving one to Mikuru when Kyon was watching.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Heatth

I don't know if you could use percentage for this kinda of thing

But, yeah, I agree. She is a tsundere, but this don't mean she is only a tsundere nor that this is the most important aspect of her personality.

However, the original point still, she don't show liking Kyon cause she is a tsundere (it is how the discussion begun right?)

Like at the end of Melancholy, she was obvious moved by her 'dream', so she wered a pony tail for Kyon. She, being a tsundere (but not only that) don't even look to his face, even though she changed her hair style to please him (even if she is in denial for the last part). She even relate pony tail to Kyon some days latter, when she gived up giving one to Mikuru when Kyon was watching.

...Good point on the ponytail thing. I had forgotten that aspect. Ok, now I see a bit better where the HaruhiKyon shippers are coming from. Yeah, she clearly decided to wear that ponytail because Kyon said he likes it in "the dream". So Haruhi is trying to attract him with the ponytail look, and was perhaps hoping that Kyon would act on it (going back to how Haruhi considers it the guys role to make romantic confessions). Haruhi is hence pretty quiet, perhaps hoping that Kyon would take advantage of her unusual silence in order to make a confession to her.

Aahhh... now I see.

That scene just became a lot cuter to me.

[Tyabann]

...Looks like we came to some understanding, somehow.

Should just point out that Haruhi is basically this trope with megalomania, reality warping, and tsundereness attached.

Haruhi's uniqueness is her situation, not her character or personality.

[ac195]

You wanna know what Haruhi is?

Haruhi is Haruhi! She will not be defined by you mere mortals!

BTW, WTF is up will all the labeling... seriously...

[Tyabann]

Actually, yeah, fuck my last posts.

And after what I said in the Hitagi character thread too...

[Myssa Rei]

Eh? Not going to make any more knee-jerk 'foot-in-my-mouth' posts ever again Kaisos? That's not like you.

[Heatth]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

...Good point on the ponytail thing. I had forgotten that aspect. Ok, now I see a bit better where the HaruhiKyon shippers are coming from. Yeah, she clearly decided to wear that ponytail because Kyon said he likes it in "the dream". So Haruhi is trying to attract him with the ponytail look, and was perhaps hoping that Kyon would act on it (going back to how Haruhi considers it the guys role to make romantic confessions). Haruhi is hence pretty quiet, perhaps hoping that Kyon would take advantage of her unusual silence in order to make a confession to her.

Aahhh... now I see.

That scene just became a lot cuter to me.

You like overanalysing things right?

Anyway, I think is more or less this. Yay, we agree, is so good whe I discussiong ends like that right? (is somewaht rare too)

Btw, "Haruhi is Haruhi" can not be used in a discussion, even Kyon said so.