ScriptClub Reborn

[Schneizel]

So what's preventing a person from the misuse group to just download the release they want on their own and getting the script that way.

"Security" is a joke and just makes the Script Club look elitist. We should know by now that when we release something that it's out there, and people can/will do whatever they want with it whether we approve of what exactly they're doing or not.

[Vide]

Unless you are posting scripts that never saw the light of day, then what is the point in restricting access? DVD groups will take what they want either way, OCR is simple and you only use a couple of hours per episode.

Several groups still hardsub signs/songs/group logo/credits and whatnot even if they add softsubs for the dialogue. Some use AFX, or complex karaoke was used. These things going to be added as well?

A database with scripts is not a bad idea, just all this security and "ethics" stuff that seems ridiculous.

[dj_tjerk]

Originally Posted by Vide

Several groups still hardsub signs/songs/group logo/credits and whatnot even if they add softsubs for the dialogue. Some use AFX, or complex karaoke was used. These things going to be added as well?

No, people should just download the original release if it contained stuff like that and they want it. Totally not useful to store all that kinda stuff on a central server. The translation of the signs and karaoke could be added to the script of course, and let people that use the scripts decide what they do with it (like.. leave it in the script or take it out and make some 1337 afx stuff).

[Desbreko]

So pirating anime from the legal distributors is okay, but pirating funsub scripts from other pirates is bad?

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by Desbreko

So pirating anime from the legal distributors is okay, but pirating funsub scripts from other pirates is bad?

Over and over again you all fail to get WHY the security is there. It is there because some people I have talked to want it. Drop this whole "blah blah elitist" holy war bs you all are riding to death. I guess the fact groups have secure FTP's or staff channels is elitist? It is seriously at this point whining to whine imo. For the final time I'll say this, the security is there SHOULD a group WISH to use it, otherwise they can set their scripts to be 100% PUBLIC.

[Waryas]

Isn't that a bit retarded ?
Securing scripts when they're releasing softsubs ?
Do they want people to download their releases?
You can extract the softsubs usually when there's only 10% of the torrent done anyway so yea!

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by Waryas

Isn't that a bit retarded ?
Securing scripts when they're releasing softsubs ?
Do they want people to download their releases?
You can extract the softsubs usually when there's only 10% of the torrent done anyway so yea!

Who said anything about them being the softsub scripts to begin with? Fansubbing has been going on for over 20 years now. And softsub is a quite recent concept. There is a massive library of scripts that were all hardsub only. Also some groups brought up the point of stoping public distribution upon licensing. I fail to see why you want to complain about a function that is controlled by the individuals who created the scripts anyways. It is up to them what is done with the scripts. The option is there, end of story, move on already.

[edogawaconan]

Originally Posted by getfresh

For the final time I'll say this, the security is there SHOULD a group WISH to use it,

sounds like elitist to me.
And it's also stupid. Seriously, pirates trying to protect themselves from another pirate? In internet age, where even legal companies failed protecting their stuffs?

Once it's publicly (in a way or another) available, it's pretty much impossible to control the distribution.

(also I read this somewhere before: if a group doesn't want their script stolen, they should NEVER release it at all)

[Desbreko]

Originally Posted by getfresh

Over and over again you all fail to get WHY the security is there. It is there because some people I have talked to want it. Drop this whole "blah blah elitist" holy war bs you all are riding to death. I guess the fact groups have secure FTP's or staff channels is elitist? It is seriously at this point whining to whine imo. For the final time I'll say this, the security is there SHOULD a group WISH to use it, otherwise they can set their scripts to be 100% PUBLIC.

I think it's more that we're questioning the validity of such a desire for security, or at least in my case it is. If people don't want to make their scripts public, that's fine with me. But if they truly want that then they shouldn't release it any way. Because the moment you put it out there in a release, anyone is able to download it and do what they want with it, soft-subbed or not, just like people cap transport streams of the anime broadcasts. Trying to claim exclusive use of a script when you yourself are pirating the anime it goes with is hypocritical.

[Access]

Originally Posted by getfresh

It would work like this. First a group makes a claim of misuse against another group. We then check the records as well as comparing the 2 diff groups releases on a timing level. Anyone who times knows that if 1/2 of the times are matching up completely or with a equal scale of expansion or contraction to the times then its pretty obvious it is the same script. As another measure of checking we would look for who recently accessed/downloaded the script from the offending group. If all things match up then thats that. Also different proxies mean nothing

And then what? You ban that person? By then it's too late, they've already got and archived everything they want.

Take a step back and think it over, what you are trying to do basically feeds on paranoia and is a lot of work to maintain. It's a lot of overhead and in the end, it's a losing battle. There's got to be a serious caveat or disclaimer to any group that expects that access can be controlled effectively in an substantial way.

Groups do have private FTPs, but they're not really private. There's almost always a way in, especially when you have something someone wants.

Likewise, b'cos groups do have their own FTPs, b'cos trading sites and other things do exist, once a script is out there, it can't effectively be revoked. Especially for the popular ones that are likely to get licensed, a lot of collectors will have it and revocation would only make it more valued.

I also think it is a serious oversimplification to believe in one person, one group, one nick, etc.

I hope my point is understandable, honestly it's not such a big deal one way or the other, just trying to save you and any group who has plans to do that some time. You can say choices are better, but a false or unrealistic choice doesn't really add much. A false sense of security is worse.

"And it's also stupid. Seriously, pirates trying to protect themselves from another pirate? In internet age, where even legal companies failed protecting their stuffs?"
Oh, many try. They just fail more often than not... and they end up all nervous, paranoid, on-the-edge b'cos of it. Especially if you talk about illicit groups in general. Now the effective groups stick to what they do best and just don't worry about it, they understand that stuff getting out 'just happens' and you don't waste too much time or overhead trying to prevent that.

[getfresh]

How about this. Don't use it if you don't want to. If you want to, you are welcome to.

[LelouchVII]

So If I get a script and start to share it everywhere even though I shouldn't (like I didn't have anything better to do :P ) you will track my ip down and ban me? What about shared ips? A lot of people don't have static. Or you gonna ban only my user name?

Also I pressume if this is going to work (sorry Im kind of new to the fansubbing community so I just learned about scriptclub) avisynth scripts and samples of typessetting will be uploaded to?

Like an archive-learn database? And what would be the point to restrict scripts to members only? If its free to join that won't really prevent anything..They ips still stay on the log (or am I wrong?)

[日本ひきこもり協会]

Originally Posted by getfresh

Who said anything about them being the softsub scripts to begin with? Fansubbing has been going on for over 20 years now. And softsub is a quite recent concept. There is a massive library of scripts that were all hardsub only. Also some groups brought up the point of stoping public distribution upon licensing. I fail to see why you want to complain about a function that is controlled by the individuals who created the scripts anyways. It is up to them what is done with the scripts. The option is there, end of story, move on already.

Firstly, softsubs aren't new at all. If I'm not mistaken it's being used since 2004.

So tell me, what's the point of making scripts public if you want to encrypt them or whatever? Then don't make them available in the first place. It's that easy. Seems like you're not really that tech-savvy so I shall give you a brief tutorial about how the internet and all that site management stuff works.

Fact is (which has already been said a couple of times now) if you post something on the internet, then it's there. You can remove it later but people who already downloaded that file have it on their own harddrive or where ever. They can freely redistribute it even after you remove it from your website. Let's say A and B downloaded the same file and uploaded it somewhere. How will you know who uploaded it? Will you modify the scripts in a way that could identify each downloader? And who said it's so difficult to remove that mark? It's pretty easy to strip the script from all kind of ass/ssa stuff that would make it impossible to trace it back. UNLESS you distribute scripts encrypted and write a program that connects to the master server that gets the key to decrypt them for your very viewing pleasure but doesn't allow you to export them so you could strip the content. Please do it for the lulz! (Well then again it's not hard to intercept the program.)

Another thing I don't understand is why you make such a big fuss about it. The scripts will be clearly identifiable from which group they origin, no? Unless you will post translations on your site before the actual group release that show. Then again people want translated and timed scripts (and preferably with some decent English). People who post their translation to the public want it to get subtitled and doesn't care about who or how many groups use that in the first place.

Sadly, I see that you didn't understand the purpose of the script club at all. The script club was there to share scripts with everyone. Back in the old days (I'm sure you're pretty familiar with the old times) people craved for anime and wanted to understand them. It was a good platform to share scripts so that everyone could read them. Even if they didn't had the translated VHS copy they could have read it along with their Japanese copy of the VHS/LD they owned. And later in the digisub era when someone else used the scripts on the site, the actual group that translated the anime was always credited. I even remember people fully crediting them (lupin gang or nordic anime) even though they did all the typesetting, encoding and even some editing touch ups. What you try to introduce is just fanning people to do some wicked stuff with the scripts if you didn't realize that yet. But that all was in the old days. You do realize that nowadays that a script club is a bit redundant (except to have a good nice archive) because people just get the animes. There's no such thing as having trouble to get the fansubbed VHS's.

So yeah, I'm disappointed how you tainted the good idea of a script club. Go name it elitist #subbers circle-jerking club. Or something that doesn't even remotely resemble our beloved old script club.

[npcomplete]

so.. not to join in on the bashing Getfresh, since its a great idea.. but: good intention, bad execution

I'd rather protect against $&*@ companies (seriously) than users "stealing" scripts

Just have a policy that relies of the goodwill of others to simply honor certain requests of subbers like crediting them in derived works in the subs, or NOT crediting them in the filename, etc.

[Quarkboy]

Originally Posted by npcomplete

so.. not to join in on the bashing Getfresh, since its a great idea.. but: good intention, bad execution

I'd rather protect against $&*@ companies (seriously) than users "stealing" scripts

Just out of curiosities sake, has there ever been a case of a company stealing a fansub script and using it themselves except for that one time with Odex and Haruhi, which was not actually Odex's fault, but the shady subcontrators they hired to "translate" the show?

I don't think there's too much to worry about companies stealing scripts. If it came out that one used fansub scripts without permission it would be a giant black eye for any serious company and might even put them out of business.

[Access]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Just out of curiosities sake, has there ever been a case of a company stealing a fansub script and using it themselves except for that one time with Odex and Haruhi, which was not actually Odex's fault, but the shady subcontrators they hired to "translate" the show?

I don't think there's too much to worry about companies stealing scripts. If it came out that one used fansub scripts without permission it would be a giant black eye for any serious company and might even put them out of business.

Not a legit company, but those bootlegged DVDs from HK or China, it wasn't unheard of for those guys to have an english sub track based on what was freely available, often complete with typos and the original poor timing.

I don't think the legit companies cared in most cases, I know in many cases the fansubbed scripts were offered at least but turned down or just not used. In other cases (ie. Marmalade boy) legit companies asked for the scripts but were refused by the fansubber for one reason or another. With MBoy I think she wanted final editing/approval rights or something like that, and they wouldn't give it to her. Just stuff like that, it often ended up being unworkable unless the subber gave the scripts without any strings attached, and some/most didn't want to do that.

[日本ひきこもり協会]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Just out of curiosities sake, has there ever been a case of a company stealing a fansub script and using it themselves except for that one time with Odex and Haruhi, which was not actually Odex's fault, but the shady subcontrators they hired to "translate" the show?

I don't think there's too much to worry about companies stealing scripts. If it came out that one used fansub scripts without permission it would be a giant black eye for any serious company and might even put them out of business.

I believe one company used Central Anime's subs for a show. But they credited CA too. Correct me if I'm wrong though.

[jfs]

Like everyone says, implementing any attempt at security is waste of time, because it won't work anyway.

Anyway, here's something that might work just a slight bit: Make it possible to add a script to script to the database but don't allow anyone to download it. It's there and it's searchable, but if you want to download it you have to place a request where you state why you want to have it. Then the original uploader can read the requests and grant or deny them.

[getfresh]

Originally Posted by Quarkboy

Just out of curiosities sake, has there ever been a case of a company stealing a fansub script and using it themselves except for that one time with Odex and Haruhi, which was not actually Odex's fault, but the shady subcontrators they hired to "translate" the show?

I don't think there's too much to worry about companies stealing scripts. If it came out that one used fansub scripts without permission it would be a giant black eye for any serious company and might even put them out of business.

I know that Animego has used L-E scripts with permission. The only companies that I can think of that have stolen fansub scripts would be some of the HK companies. I've heard rumors in the paste, but rumors are just that. Never seen actual proof.

[edogawaconan]

Originally Posted by jfs

Like everyone says, implementing any attempt at security is waste of time, because it won't work anyway.

Anyway, here's something that might work just a slight bit: Make it possible to add a script to script to the database but don't allow anyone to download it. It's there and it's searchable, but if you want to download it you have to place a request where you state why you want to have it. Then the original uploader can read the requests and grant or deny them.

+1
the best way, imo.

pretty stupid if it's from softsubbed released project though.