AnimeSuki Forums

Tyabann · 2009-07-26, 06:05

That's not it.

I'm just REALLY angry at being fucked with right now.

How did everyone else figure this crap out without being told?

Kitsu · 2009-07-26, 06:14

Well I think most of us were were tricked by Beato. Only a few doubted her because they didn't belive that change, especially not after the talk of her and Virgilia and her new tactic. I wasn't tricked as well, but just because I like evil Beato the best and was all like
"Ah, what the heck. She just laughed about a person getting smashed with cake, no way she's gonna all goody now" and I just didn't wanted a good Beato.

Tyabann · 2009-07-26, 06:23

Ah, but...

Spoiler for random-ass theory I haven't touched Ep4 yet don't hurt me:

And no, I mean how did everyone figure out the details before Ep4 was released?

Spoiler for ending:

Kitsu · 2009-07-26, 06:32

Cause she said that herself,
In the beginning she wanted to show Battler a cruel witch and make her accept him that way, but then Virgilia gives her a tip. I don't know the exact sentence anymore but that she should not scare and force him to accept but show him a more nice site so he would accept the witches. This was said with that metapher I can't remember. Something about a wanderer and his cloack. It's quite popular

sento · 2009-07-26, 07:00

They call it "The North Wind and Sun" strategy.

It's perfectly explained in the final scene, so I don't get you Kaisos Erranon...

Tyabann · 2009-07-26, 07:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by sento

It's perfectly explained in the final scene, so I don't get you Kaisos Erranon...

...Where?

Gimme a quote or something.

Natsuki Hyuga · 2009-07-26, 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

...Where?

Gimme a quote or something.

Spoiler for Quote:

Tyabann · 2009-07-26, 07:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natsuki Hyuga

Beato: ... Sorry Battleer. It was pretty interesting. ... Still I was just trying to do what teacher told me* but it really did work very well!

Then she said something about rise in goodwill meter-quote is too long for me to write.

*refers to North Wind and Sun theory in earlier part of the VN.

I... I really don't see how I could have made that connection at all.

I know you're supposed to replay the game until you get it, but how could I do so now that I retroactively feel like I wasted my time?

Thank you, though.

Natsuki Hyuga · 2009-07-26, 07:31

Sorry just edited the entry for maybe more proper explanation, if you want check it back

(Was in hurry atm)

Tyabann · 2009-07-26, 07:32

...I really do still feel like I've wasted my time, but thank you very much.

MeoTwister5 · 2009-07-26, 07:34

In my case I was enjoyably mindfucked and remained in said state at the end of this episode 2 days after the fact.

The thing with me was that Beatrice's "change of heart" was completely and utterly sold to me after seeing her ruminate on Battler's worda about trickery. I ended up believing her 90% of the episode and was even at a loss at her apparent sacrifice at the end.

And then when shit hits the fan at the end I was picking up the pieces of my shattered belief. I can be one of the most suspicious people you ever meet but Ryukishi managed to sell episode 3 to me like it was nothing. I was still picking up my jaw off the floor after Ange had to save his ass.

After that I went back and reread my notes of Episode 3 and that's when I started to realize inconsistencies in her actions, her storytelling and her personality. I found it shocking that I never noticed them.

Tyabann · 2009-07-26, 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

After that I went back and reread my notes of Episode 3 and that's when I started to realize inconsistencies in her actions, her storytelling and her personality. I found it shocking that I never noticed them.

...You take notes?

I had actually thought Beatrice's inconsistencies were simply, well, "poor writing", but now I get it, and realize how insanely clever Ryukishi07 really is.

...My head hurts. That's probably a good thing...

ghost_zero5 · 2009-07-26, 07:45

Regarding Virgilia I always wondered: As she really completely on Beato's side? After all in episode 4 she said that she hopes that Battler doesn't give up BUT shouldn't exactly this be her goal?
Also in this episode she didn't help Beatrice from the beginning. She just did so later, after she helped Battler too much, to make it "even". At least that was the first time she told Beato about this strategy. She also helped Battler a lot by telling him the thing with Schroedinger's cat. After all without this he very likely would have surrendered this time for sure.
The only thing that really confuses me is the last part where she tried to force Battler to sign it though he didn't want to sign it.
However, it seems that her main reason for being there is to make the power between Beato and Battler even. So if one side is too good, she helps the other one.
If that is indeed the case, she probably works for Lambdadelta as that one wants that the game endlessly ends with ties.

MeoTwister5 · 2009-07-26, 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

...You take notes?

I had actually thought Beatrice's inconsistencies were simply, well, "poor writing", but now I get it, and realize how insanely clever Ryukishi07 really is.

...My head hurts. That's probably a good thing...

I have 180kb worth of of text file notes. Some players have even more than that, in fact.

And yes, you're brain is supposed to hurt. It means you used it and the game still managed to make you fail at it.

unconfirmed · 2009-07-26, 17:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I don't understand why everyone seems to like Ep.3 the most.

Spoiler for the ending:

That is all.

It's not bad writing, you just got mindraped like everybody else...
Plus, there's nothing really abstract with the ending, what you see is how Ryukishi07 intended for you to see it.

k//eternal · 2009-07-26, 20:04

Eh, I thought by the end it was extremely clear, and it had been fairly obvious even before that point that Beato's actions later on were a trick based on what Virgilia had said. In fact, the real surprise was that Virgilia had apparently been playing him all along, too.

Magicberyl · 2009-07-26, 21:39

Spoiler for Question:

Jan-Poo · 2009-07-27, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

That's not it.

I'm just REALLY angry at being fucked with right now.

How did everyone else figure this crap out without being told?

Apart from what everyone said before, If you ever saw "the prisoner" as I did you would undertsand it right away XD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magicberyl

Spoiler for Question:

I don't think it is possible to make a sense out of magic events...

kiki_natsumi-chan · 2009-07-27, 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

...You take notes?

I had actually thought Beatrice's inconsistencies were simply, well, "poor writing", but now I get it, and realize how insanely clever Ryukishi07 really is.

...My head hurts. That's probably a good thing...

If it's for that, then Ep2's writing must've been abysmal. xDDD But yeah, I need to replay those episodes...and take notes. Cause I don't do that. Even though my memory is in a new level of fail.

If your head hurts, that means that you've read through the episode correctly. xD

maximilianjenus · 2009-07-27, 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Actually Bern said that this game is very unfair, so I am expecting a bad trick somewhere, something that will make us facepalm. "The red truth is a lie" theory wasn't bad, it could explain a lot of things, but I think I've proven this is not the case.

I think bern says that the game is unfair because there is no way beatrice can win. the scenario can play like this, all murders were commited by human,s witches do not exist; therefore convincing a stubborn person that witches exist is an already lost game, you can outsmart a not so stubborn but very intelligent person, but outsmarting someone stubborn is pointless because he will never give up until he beats you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

I've been trying that, but it doesn't work. The red truths from different games are incompatible.

Agreed, this is such a mild spoiler from Episode 4 that I don't even feel like using spoiler tags, beatrice must explicitly said that a certain red truth applies to more than one game board (actually I think she also had to do that in Episode 2, though I am not sure).

2009-07-26, 06:14	Link #1722
Kitsu The unlucky one Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hiding	Well I think most of us were were tricked by Beato. Only a few doubted her because they didn't belive that change, especially not after the talk of her and Virgilia and her new tactic. I wasn't tricked as well, but just because I like evil Beato the best and was all like "Ah, what the heck. She just laughed about a person getting smashed with cake, no way she's gonna all goody now" and I just didn't wanted a good Beato. __________________ Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara

2009-07-26, 06:23	Link #1723
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	Ah, but... Spoiler for random-ass theory I haven't touched Ep4 yet don't hurt me: ...Isn't it possible that the Virgilia you see AFTER Beatrice kills her is simply furniture created by Beatrice? And no, I mean how did everyone figure out the details before Ep4 was released? Spoiler for ending: Beato and Virgilia just go totally evil for no discernible reason... and then ANGE shows up in a whirl of Deus Ex... the entire thing made no sense at all. How did you guys even figure out at first that Beato had planned the ENTIRETY of Ep3 just to trick Battler into accepting her?

2009-07-26, 06:32	Link #1724
Kitsu The unlucky one Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Hiding	Cause she said that herself, In the beginning she wanted to show Battler a cruel witch and make her accept him that way, but then Virgilia gives her a tip. I don't know the exact sentence anymore but that she should not scare and force him to accept but show him a more nice site so he would accept the witches. This was said with that metapher I can't remember. Something about a wanderer and his cloack. It's quite popular __________________ Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara

2009-07-26, 07:34	Link #1731
MeoTwister5 Komrades of Kitamura Kou Join Date: Jul 2004 Age: 39	In my case I was enjoyably mindfucked and remained in said state at the end of this episode 2 days after the fact. The thing with me was that Beatrice's "change of heart" was completely and utterly sold to me after seeing her ruminate on Battler's worda about trickery. I ended up believing her 90% of the episode and was even at a loss at her apparent sacrifice at the end. And then when shit hits the fan at the end I was picking up the pieces of my shattered belief. I can be one of the most suspicious people you ever meet but Ryukishi managed to sell episode 3 to me like it was nothing. I was still picking up my jaw off the floor after Ange had to save his ass. After that I went back and reread my notes of Episode 3 and that's when I started to realize inconsistencies in her actions, her storytelling and her personality. I found it shocking that I never noticed them. __________________ Medical Student vs. Anime Last Exile - Fam the Silver Wing -

2009-07-26, 07:45	Link #1733
ghost_zero5 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008	Regarding Virgilia I always wondered: As she really completely on Beato's side? After all in episode 4 she said that she hopes that Battler doesn't give up BUT shouldn't exactly this be her goal? Also in this episode she didn't help Beatrice from the beginning. She just did so later, after she helped Battler too much, to make it "even". At least that was the first time she told Beato about this strategy. She also helped Battler a lot by telling him the thing with Schroedinger's cat. After all without this he very likely would have surrendered this time for sure. The only thing that really confuses me is the last part where she tried to force Battler to sign it though he didn't want to sign it. However, it seems that her main reason for being there is to make the power between Beato and Battler even. So if one side is too good, she helps the other one. If that is indeed the case, she probably works for Lambdadelta as that one wants that the game endlessly ends with ties. Last edited by ghost_zero5; 2009-07-26 at 07:55.

2009-07-26, 06:05	Link #1721
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	That's not it. I'm just REALLY angry at being fucked with right now. How did everyone else figure this crap out without being told?

2009-07-26, 07:00	Link #1725
sento Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009	They call it "The North Wind and Sun" strategy. It's perfectly explained in the final scene, so I don't get you Kaisos Erranon...

2009-07-26, 07:32	Link #1730
Tyabann Homo Ludens Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Age: 34	...I really do still feel like I've wasted my time, but thank you very much.

2009-07-26, 20:04	Link #1736
k//eternal do you know ベアトリーチェ様? Join Date: Dec 2003 Age: 35	Eh, I thought by the end it was extremely clear, and it had been fairly obvious even before that point that Beato's actions later on were a trick based on what Virgilia had said. In fact, the real surprise was that Virgilia had apparently been playing him all along, too.

2009-07-26, 21:39	Link #1737
Magicberyl Member Join Date: Jul 2009	Spoiler for Question: Just randomly wandering, what will happen if the gold was found by more than 1 person at same time? like the 6 adults together. Is it going to awake the "magic power" of everyone there?