AnimeSuki Forums

Ragecry · 2013-02-01, 19:24

We can't lose hope, can we? It'd be a shame to see such a good series not getting more seasons. But oh well, hope's the last to die

Archon_Wing · 2013-02-01, 21:25

Oh Haruhi. I vaguely remember that series-- thought it was a pretty cool watch. Can't say I'd want any more though.

Ragecry · 2013-02-02, 08:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

Oh Haruhi. I vaguely remember that series-- thought it was a pretty cool watch. Can't say I'd want any more though.

Yeah, I've been rewatching it recently. I dunno how people took the movie ending as a complete ending.. There's so much story to cover.

Leo Keichi · 2013-02-04, 10:28

I used to like KyoAni, but my opinions have changed drastically. It was around the time of Endless Eight and K-On 2nd season, though I didn't realize it so much back then. I was very disappointed when they decided to make Nichijou, but nowadays the disappointment has turned into downright indifference. I'm already convinced they'll never be the same again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

Secondly in some ways yes, when some company produces one well produced and animated show (and I'm not even going to get into how they're nothing like KyoAni's level of animation) and people act like KyoAni have been equaled, it shows clear under appreciation.. like Jay-Z said "I held you down for 6 summers, damn, where's the love?".

Hm, I'm of the opposite opinion, here, and think that KyoAni is terribly overpraised sometimes. Everything they've been doing recently is average at best, including in levels of animation.

totoum · 2013-02-04, 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leo Keichi

Everything they've been doing recently is average at best, including in levels of animation.

Define "animation",you and I not having the same definition of it is the only way I can imagine you making that statement.

(And I'm someone who dropped k-on S2,nichijo and Chuubiyou so I'm hardly a kyoani fanboy)

Archon_Wing · 2013-02-04, 15:14

Hyouka had great animation I guess.

And I agree mostly with Leo Keichi. Once upon a time there were a big name that would urge me to watch it, but these days it has the opposite affect; there's other names I'd look for first. I'm just not fond of the character designs of their recent work, really.

Ragecry · 2013-02-04, 20:03

So that I don't wing in so much in the animation convo.. and believe me, I'm trying to learn here :P

It would be the same to equal like: Having an urge to watch Rurouni Kenshin when it had it's drawings and etc on the show, but not liking the design and animation on the most recent works of it at all, would that be close to the feeling?

Folenfant · 2013-02-05, 10:36

Kyoanis situation reminds me a lot of the video game company Square Enix's situation lately albeit of course never quite on the same level. The circumstances of a company that got scared off by one ambitious failure to the point where they retreated into this shell of relying on having the best graphics and a strong supportive niche are similar though including the ever increasing lack of fan support where it used to be seen as unconditional. When fans see their favorite franchises neglected and a company appear to lack direction other than reusing the assets that have worked for them in the past they start to grow impatient.

Now its getting harder and harder to argue that Kyoani even dominates their own niche of cute girls doing cute things with great animation. In particular shows like Girls Under Panzer and the general output of Sunrise Studio 8 that really seem to be cutting into their niche of late present a problem they'll have to overcome. Kyoani can ill afford to give ground to competitors if they only have one niche as it appears and there's strong indications that trends are changing again and people are looking for edgier shows like Jojo or in the case of more Moe leaning perhaps SAO, Horizon and dare I suggest Madoka. With Tamako market apparently being only modestly popular at best should it not deliver them much of a profit I think they're going to have to make some serious changes in their course of direction. Its hard to say if the show would have had more of an audience now if they hadn't excised the plot from the show before it aired like they claimed but I think its a safe bet that it'll be a lesson learned.

Warm Mist · 2013-02-05, 13:23

Kyoani got scared by a failure? Where does this idea come from? May I note that Tamako Market (the supposed "run-of-the-mill moe show copying K-On!") has been in production since 2010? May I say that Hyouka, the show that aired directly after this failure, is nothing like anything Kyoani had done before, and was a success financially?

I'm not even going to bother with the guy claiming that Kyoani's animation is average, he probably thinks JoJo has good animation due to the pretty stills.

Westlo · 2013-02-06, 05:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warm Mist

I'm not even going to bother with the guy claiming that Kyoani's animation is average, he probably thinks JoJo has good animation due to the pretty stills.

Nah man, KyoAni are average at animation, Hyouka is just average, it has no action scenes and I don't like the character designs, so the animation is average.

***relentlessflame*** · 2013-02-06, 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Folenfant

Now its getting harder and harder to argue that Kyoani even dominates their own niche of cute girls doing cute things with great animation. In particular shows like Girls Under Panzer and the general output of Sunrise Studio 8 that really seem to be cutting into their niche of late present a problem they'll have to overcome. Kyoani can ill afford to give ground to competitors if they only have one niche as it appears and there's strong indications that trends are changing again and people are looking for edgier shows like Jojo or in the case of more Moe leaning perhaps SAO, Horizon and dare I suggest Madoka. With Tamako market apparently being only modestly popular at best should it not deliver them much of a profit I think they're going to have to make some serious changes in their course of direction. Its hard to say if the show would have had more of an audience now if they hadn't excised the plot from the show before it aired like they claimed but I think its a safe bet that it'll be a lesson learned.

This is all really bizarre to me.

I don't think KyoAni is in any way worried about "giving ground to competitors" (in a lot of cases, even that "competition" is funded in part by many of the same publishers/labels/distributors). What they do seem to be interested in is taking more direct ownership of their properties, rather than being a firm that only makes (high-quality) adaptations of existing works. With Hyouka in the summer, they chose a rather unlikely title and were able to raise its profile significantly. With both Chuunibyou and now Tamako Market, they are supporting properties that have books distributed under their own label (with the Tamako Market book just having been announced recently). Even if a show like Tamako Market were not to sell quite so phenomenally on Blu-Ray/DVD, more ownership means they keep a lot higher percentage of the profits. It's totally possible that they may make more money off of even an "average" selling Tamako Market than any of their earlier adaptations just because of the financials involved.

In the end, Kyoto Animation isn't here to win a popularity contest, but to support a growing business over the long-term. Launching their own novel label and reaching out to find more original properties they can publish themselves shows that they have a pretty clear view of where their future can take them, and it's not just being in competition with other animation companies, but being a fully-fledged independent publisher of content across many media (with anime just being part of the "media mix" strategy). So I think it's too soon to claim that Tamako Market is some sort of "lesson" in how they're going down the "wrong path". It seems to me that their business model and strategy may be a bit different than what you think it is.

bhl88 · 2013-02-06, 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Westlo

Nah man, KyoAni are average at animation, Hyouka is just average, it has no action scenes and I don't like the character designs, so the animation is average.

Yes, one anime, no action and a design I don't like = studio has average animation

Not.

totoum · 2013-02-06, 06:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhl88

Yes, one anime, no action and a design I don't like = studio has average animation

Not.

I think your sarcasm detector is broken

bhl88 · 2013-02-06, 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

I think your sarcasm detector is broken

Lol I broke it by accident.

Westlo · 2013-02-06, 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by totoum

I think your sarcasm detector is broken

Can't blame him, since some people actually think that way. I mean I'm honestly convinced some people would think the following TokiKake MAD (I can't be f'd looking for a KyoAni one, and was recently rewatching this clip too) has bad animation because it has no action scenes in it.

bhl88 · 2013-02-06, 08:10

^ Nothing wrong but it's not KyoAni's.

Warm Mist · 2013-02-06, 21:03

Just one thing: character designs do matter when talking about animation, because the animation style of a given show usually is a natural extension of its character designs. Compare K-On!'s wobbly and loose designs, which in turn give birth to that type of animation and lend well to cartoony expressions, with Hyouka's more solid approach. In Hyouka you will never find any slapstick whatsoever, the closest it comes is when a character gets a color shade on their face for emphasis, but it never goes beyond that and the style is much more literal than K-On!'s; I'm sure that was the director's intent and goes well with the tone of the show, but it wouldn't be possible without well-made designs like Nishiya's.

As for average animation... well, just have this:

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ug8ItuvZM7w

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

Kudryavka · 2013-02-06, 22:52

@Warm Mist While I agree with what you say, please don't confuse style/look of character design with the animation of the characters itself... Nichijou has very average character design, but it brought life and movement to those characters in an above average way, at least for a TV show. There are cartoons I've seen with rubber man looking characters that anyone could draw on paper (not animate, just draw), but have animation better than almost any TV cartoon of this century.

Warm Mist · 2013-02-06, 23:46

...that's what I'm saying. The first part of the post is addressed at some of the comments above, while the MAD is just an example of Kyoani's definitely above average animation.

And I dig Nichijou's designs, what's the problem with them?

Ithekro · 2013-02-06, 23:51

Some people didn't care for Nichijou for one reason or another.

But is was agreed that KyoAni animated the hell out of that show. Way beyond what would be considered needed for anything else expect that is was KyoAni...they do that sort of thing.

People might not like the humor or the character designs, or the art style, but no matter what one things, the animation is top notch. Almost like it was an ad for other production companies to say "Look we can animate anything....try us".

2013-02-06, 08:10	Link #1296
bhl88 Otaku Apprentice Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Unseen Horizon	^ Nothing wrong but it's not KyoAni's. <p>No iframe support, please <a href="http://youtu.be/oyUa2z0VXfg">watch on YouTube</a>.</p> __________________ OS-tan Collections (temporary): https://discord.gg/Hv2rBs3 Last edited by bhl88; 2013-02-08 at 02:22.

2013-02-06, 23:51	Link #1300
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Some people didn't care for Nichijou for one reason or another. But is was agreed that KyoAni animated the hell out of that show. Way beyond what would be considered needed for anything else expect that is was KyoAni...they do that sort of thing. People might not like the humor or the character designs, or the art style, but no matter what one things, the animation is top notch. Almost like it was an ad for other production companies to say "Look we can animate anything....try us". __________________

2013-02-01, 19:24	Link #1281
Ragecry Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Brazil	We can't lose hope, can we? It'd be a shame to see such a good series not getting more seasons. But oh well, hope's the last to die

2013-02-04, 20:03	Link #1287
Ragecry Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Brazil	So that I don't wing in so much in the animation convo.. and believe me, I'm trying to learn here :P It would be the same to equal like: Having an urge to watch Rurouni Kenshin when it had it's drawings and etc on the show, but not liking the design and animation on the most recent works of it at all, would that be close to the feeling?

2013-02-05, 10:36	Link #1288
Folenfant Banned Join Date: Dec 2012	Kyoanis situation reminds me a lot of the video game company Square Enix's situation lately albeit of course never quite on the same level. The circumstances of a company that got scared off by one ambitious failure to the point where they retreated into this shell of relying on having the best graphics and a strong supportive niche are similar though including the ever increasing lack of fan support where it used to be seen as unconditional. When fans see their favorite franchises neglected and a company appear to lack direction other than reusing the assets that have worked for them in the past they start to grow impatient. Now its getting harder and harder to argue that Kyoani even dominates their own niche of cute girls doing cute things with great animation. In particular shows like Girls Under Panzer and the general output of Sunrise Studio 8 that really seem to be cutting into their niche of late present a problem they'll have to overcome. Kyoani can ill afford to give ground to competitors if they only have one niche as it appears and there's strong indications that trends are changing again and people are looking for edgier shows like Jojo or in the case of more Moe leaning perhaps SAO, Horizon and dare I suggest Madoka. With Tamako market apparently being only modestly popular at best should it not deliver them much of a profit I think they're going to have to make some serious changes in their course of direction. Its hard to say if the show would have had more of an audience now if they hadn't excised the plot from the show before it aired like they claimed but I think its a safe bet that it'll be a lesson learned.

2013-02-05, 13:23	Link #1289
Warm Mist Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Kyoani got scared by a failure? Where does this idea come from? May I note that Tamako Market (the supposed "run-of-the-mill moe show copying K-On!") has been in production since 2010? May I say that Hyouka, the show that aired directly after this failure, is nothing like anything Kyoani had done before, and was a success financially? I'm not even going to bother with the guy claiming that Kyoani's animation is average, he probably thinks JoJo has good animation due to the pretty stills.

2013-02-06, 21:03	Link #1297
Warm Mist Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Just one thing: character designs do matter when talking about animation, because the animation style of a given show usually is a natural extension of its character designs. Compare K-On!'s wobbly and loose designs, which in turn give birth to that type of animation and lend well to cartoony expressions, with Hyouka's more solid approach. In Hyouka you will never find any slapstick whatsoever, the closest it comes is when a character gets a color shade on their face for emphasis, but it never goes beyond that and the style is much more literal than K-On!'s; I'm sure that was the director's intent and goes well with the tone of the show, but it wouldn't be possible without well-made designs like Nishiya's. As for average animation... well, just have this: YouTube https://youtu.be/ug8ItuvZM7w Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

2013-02-06, 22:52	Link #1298
Kudryavka Senior Member Join Date: May 2009	@Warm Mist While I agree with what you say, please don't confuse style/look of character design with the animation of the characters itself... Nichijou has very average character design, but it brought life and movement to those characters in an above average way, at least for a TV show. There are cartoons I've seen with rubber man looking characters that anyone could draw on paper (not animate, just draw), but have animation better than almost any TV cartoon of this century.

2013-02-06, 23:46	Link #1299
Warm Mist Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	...that's what I'm saying. The first part of the post is addressed at some of the comments above, while the MAD is just an example of Kyoani's definitely above average animation. And I dig Nichijou's designs, what's the problem with them?