2008-02-17, 15:43 | Link #19902 | ||||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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The moment 'mass production' of said armor is even mentioned is when I start kicking the hornet nest again. Quote:
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2008-02-17, 15:51 | Link #19903 | |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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Incidently, AS fanfiction, to a certain extent you have to realize that we're writing it because we want to have fun, and that we're mixing and matching things because we like them. Making them fit is the hard part. Which I am working on as always. |
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2008-02-17, 15:54 | Link #19904 | ||||||||
Truth Martyr
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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Also...HEAT and EFP warheads WILL penetrate plate armor. There is no such thing as a perfect defense, beyond "Don't get hit." Quote:
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The point I was trying to make to you, ATC, is that you were complaining about writing 2000 words. I wrote 3000 words in 3 hours give or take, so it can be done. As for the content, I suppose I am cheating, in that all those words were typed as I sorted out almost 4 months worth of work and worked through plotholes and inconsistencies. You want bull? How about your arguments for a fighter squadron keeping a stockpile of banned weapons? Your arguments were on using magic guns, and then you tried to make that fit to stockpiles of banned weapons. Now that's bull. One of the issues that I'm raising in my OFM works is that as the years go by it's harder to get spare parts for the OFM's guns simply because the TSAB has been blowing up and destroying every last gun on Erusia (apart from the pistols the Gardai use, which can only fire tranq rounds). Quote:
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This reminds me, I need to go and tell Kha "Oh hell no, making the Infinity Library a seperate faction with Frames and mecha is NOT what I was talking about when I said they had a seperate charter." Quote:
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*sighs* Now to Sleep 1 hour, wake up and go to work *sighs* Looking forward to another 20 hour day.
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2008-02-17, 16:12 | Link #19905 | ||||
Wild card
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Finland
Age: 39
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...let's see, i've read up to the sparring match between the suit and the two aces, and based on that i did let it slide, but if you want to bring in the audience with an argument like "no one complained" then i might as well speak up. Quote:
And i'm not touching the time factor with a 10 foot pole, everyone writes at a different pace, so hours can't really be used as an adequate measurement unit... Quote:
So no one bothered, they probably figured that if you want to make it that badly, then go ahead... It's just the few haxxbusters around that take up beef with you about it... but even they don't have unlimited amounts of energy to throw at your face, so you get it like mail... extremely late. Quote:
You bet it's going into mass production... hence, more than one... i doubt that kerokos argument has any more substance than that, something that will be a problem in the future. Now, as for wild gooses arguments, i do think that he has it somewhat correct, the entire "C to A who can use S rank spells" was the main point that rubbed everyone the wrong way... and i remember your counter to that "it's not something that's meant to be used continuously" now although correct, i'd like to point out that jumping from A to AA to AA+ to AAA to AAA+ to S is a long friggin jump, and according to manga, fate at AAA said that chrono being AAA+ meant that he was going to beat her without even breaking a sweat. we're talking about some radical differences in power when we're jumping a single friggin rank from AAA to AAA+, which is exactly why someone who's already being forced to A casting something rated S seems insanity, if not downright impossible. I haven't been following much, but did you implement the modular structure that i proposed? Because without it you've got some serious haxx built into your machine... ...as for how you're viewed, we can point out that you did come in with a crash, threw this idea of yours in our face, then proceeded to pound it in our face until we'd give up resisting the idea. Most people kinda tend to stop trying to force you to see reason, i'll grant that i didn't, instead i thought that most of the glaring problems about the suit had already been solved: you downgraded it a bit and with the modular concept it seemed downright interesting, adding a fun tactical side to engagements in cases where the wrong module was put into use ... So, shall we get this thing going again for another 4 pages then? Edit: that's what i get for taking so long to post this... both wild goose and keroko had time to post replies already... Edit 2: removed an extra "or" from there, no idea how that snuck up on me...
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2008-02-17, 16:12 | Link #19906 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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Not that I'm complaining about doing 2000 or 3000 word essays. (I sometimes write POSTS that long on a regular basis) But I remind that I was asked to spend a week on it alone, just to cover an area of backstory HISTORY that wasn't even supposed to be in the forefront of the story itself except as little snippets here and there. Something I like to call a 'useless task'.
Spoiler for I am NOT bowing down to the Terrible Trivium!:
Since then I've found a method to do it without submitting to the Trivium and have it slated. EDIT: @SpaceBrotha: You had a beef not with that it's armor or powered armor, but with the fact that I equipped it with conventional shot and rapid fire shot, a sniper rifle, a rotary cannon, single round missile launcher, and artillery mode all at once to cover multiple aspects of combat. And I do plan on pulling the artillery mode off it and leaving that as modular. But I'm keeping the standard rifle mode, the rotary cannon (thing's still inaccurate) and making its 'power' mode the Lance Rifle. I'm also writing in that the AI onboard is constantly rebalancing energy. (Ever play the Xwing series? It handles energy management like an ELS system. Watch this video and watch the display in the X wing Cockpit marked E L S. Or Engines, Lasers, Shields. Especially watch the speed indicator at the bottom of the instrument panel when the ELS is readjusted.) Essentially, the armor will have to rapidly go from attack, to engine, to defense rapidly. But cannot do all three at once. ELS management makes fights so much more interesting. Last edited by AdmiralTigerclaw; 2008-02-17 at 16:34. |
2008-02-17, 17:03 | Link #19907 |
"Begin, the operation!"
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I'm actually going to jump in the fray with this one, simply because it seems worthwhile. I'm going to use my G3C Ghost Armor as a foil to ATCs armor, simply because they seem to be complete opposites in function and serve as decent foils to each other.
From what I can gather, ATC's armor (the name escapes me; I'm going to call it Metal Gear for now) is designed to be a heavy-assault and augment armor, essentially turning the user of it into a mobile walking weapons platform . Metal Gear's equipment is designed to be able to pump the unit from a mere C rank to a AAA/S rank with the use of cartridges, along with giving them all sorts of nifty gadgets. In theory, this sounds like a good idea; turning a grunt into a AAA rank? Yes plz. In practice? Totally different. Let's look at cost, for starters. These things would have to be damn expensive, on par with a Main Battle Tank in the modern time if not more. Like Goose mentioned, it'd be a 30 to 300 syndrome. You could build one Metal Gear armor, or you could build 10 (using an example) Infantry Fighting Vehicles (not that the TSAB has those, I think). Cost does not outweigh utility. I'm sure if they could afford to mass-produce it, they would build legions of Metal Gear suits. But they can't. Maintenance costs alone would be scary. Now let's observe what it does to the user. You're proposing that you take a C rank mage and turn them into an A rank at the least. Coupled with the Cartridge system, which is proven to strain the user's body, you're bumping them up to an S rank. If Nanoha, an S rank, is worn by using such a huge number of cartridges, I would think a C rank would die from them. I see these things being used in limited, very short, engagements; I would put an hour of operational time at the most. That's to prevent damage to one's Linker Core (well, permanent damage). But some engagements can last even longer, taking days. Finally, let's just assume that a unit of Metal Gear-equipped ground forces goes haywire or rebels. Now you have a platoon of enhanced super-soldiers running around killing people willy-nilly. And you definitely don't want that. I'm going to use my Ghost Armor now as a foil. The Ghost Armor is designed to be a supplemental utility to the mage. To expound, it focuses on stealth while providing the mage with a defense thicker than your standard Barrier Jacket. This is because of the second Device that the Armor emits out of, the Charge Device, which processes and stores the armor. Running semi-dependently on the mage's Linker Core, the armor provides minimal wear and tear on their Core, allowing for extended engagements. The Storage Device that usually comes with it is a rifle-shaped Storage Device that allows for most standard TSAB attacks. Furthermore, the cloaking system, while the heat output it high, provides near-total invisibility, greatly increasing utility of mages when they're tracking their targets. But like with Metal Gear, there are heavy drawbacks to why you will never see massive production of these things. First off, like Metal Gear, the cost is almost prohibitive. While not as expensive as Metal Gear, dedicated cloaking technology is still in its infancy, and thus costly to maintain. The armor itself, with all the bells and whistles it comes with, is also expensive. Totaling up the costs of everything, I'm going to estimate that it costs about 1/3 of that of Metal Gear. A 3 for 10 ratio, if you will. For one suit of Ghost Armor, you could build 3 IFVs. Not as bad a tradeoff as Metal Gear, but prohibitive enough that there are very few of these in production, and which is why I expressed that only some Enforcers and the OFM use it. On the user, the wear isn't nearly as bad as Metal Gear. However, the drawback with Ghost Armor is the cloaking tech. The technology is extremely sensitive to user magic, and whilst cloaked a mage is unable to cast any spells, not even flight. This means that you're not going to be sniping a target from 3000 meters while cloaked. You're not binding someone while cloaked, and you're sure as hell not going to be casting anything defensive while cloaked. Though invisible, you're also totally vulnerable. Most people wouldn't like this, though others can see its function and adapt. Finally, just for kicks, let's pit Emili against Crash. Ghost Armor versus Metal Gear. Emili is AA rank, and Crash is... well, I forgot, sorry. The point is that Metal Gear augments his rank. If they start at range, then both would have a good fight. Emili is a combat specialist, and she enjoys ranged attacks. It would come down to Emili evading Crash's attacks, since Emili's Ghost Armor can't stand up to the power of Metal Gear's attacks, and Crash just standing there and taking it, because IIRC Metal Gear is really tough.
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2008-02-17, 17:17 | Link #19908 |
Sword Wielding Penguin
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I haven't really named the Armor anything other than Battery Armor.
I have essentially two visions for it. 1: Shock Trooper. Like you mention above, the heavily brute power version for brief engagements. Something for beefing up a spec-ops unit when they go in against a heavily entrenched enemy of some kind. Something to bring the power of the sparse Aces down on the location like a Clap of thunder. This is the initial design. Crash wears it in my sound cinema. 2: Heavy Combat. The second version, which Crash will use in the story (Because Cooper adjusted it), is less shock troop, and more heavy assault and movement. It still has firepower, it still has defense power, and it's still more for rapid engagements. But its sustainable compared to the shock trooper image. The idea is to give a mage more staying power in a drawn out fight... so it has more energy management features and efficiency focus rather than pumping up the power. (Example, in the end combat segment, you saw how crash made use of the limitations of the efficiency when he Lanced Nanoha while standing on her barrier.) I think I'll call the first model the Adrenus (After Adrenaline, something that gives a brief super boost for a short time.) The second one I don't know. Wait, yes I do. The second mocel terns you into a super athlete... Athlete, Olympics... Olympian Armor. BAM! I'm off to work. I'll think about it on my drive. EDIT: Oh. Crash is B- rank Overall in across the board stats. He ranks a C (Average) in the Magic Power catagory on his own. |
2008-02-17, 18:58 | Link #19909 | |||
Truth Martyr
Author
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 38
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The finished Erusian/Subjugation War articles make no references to this because this idea was dropped. All in all, the Erusian backstory that was worked out and is part of Alpha Canon was essentially rewritten completely after being junked. It was, in your own words, useless. It hasn't been touched on in writing, save for slight allusions here and there and twitching when the name A. J. Ivanovich comes up. This backstory history is not at the forefront of any of the writings that we're doing. It doesn't come up except here and there. And we did it anyway. So, in three words: Suck it up. If working out the backstory is good enough for J.R.R. Tolkein, then goddamnit it's good enough for us! Quote:
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Will continue during lunch break; heading off to work.
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2008-02-17, 19:09 | Link #19910 | |
RUN, YOU FOOLS!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost
Age: 44
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As for the powered suit topic, when they got brought up in fictions they were barely capable of flying, maybe they have jet-packs for brief and long jumps, and that's about it. (I have Red Eyes SAAs and Heinlein's power suits from Starship Troopers in mind) |
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2008-02-17, 19:10 | Link #19911 | ||
~ I Do ~
Author
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In the XV-8A Spartan "00"
Age: 38
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@Powered Armor discussion:
Keroko has several valid points about deploying too many of them. Canonically, we're seeing none of them, and as much as the girls remind us of mecha, that's about it. The closest I ever got to power armor early in Rebuilt of StrikerS is some troopers masquerading as Thors from Battletech. Masquerading means "he's firing one device in his left hand, he's holding another on his right and what's with that fat tube strapped to his shoulder?" This is why I think the Power Armor is vital to the type of force Midchilda is, but is never seen in canon: Midchilda is arguably the most central of the Core Worlds, deep within the Blue Zone, and therefore is strictly civilian territory. Like we don't see tanks patrolling the streets of Manhatten everyday, we don't see the TSAB, which I believe is acting as a police force in the Blue Zone, flying around in bulky armors and scaring the daylights out of tourists. The most we ever see are SWAT teams, and we get that in the Enforcers. Power armor, due to the protection and power offered, are the magical world's legal weapons of war. Short of invoking Martial Law, you're never gonna see them operating on home soil. However, here's the catch that should have been invoked in canon: When even the Enforcers and pretty much all ground troops are in trouble, it's time to call in the elite. Granted, Regius has been manipulating the works forcing the transfer of such resources off-planet, and the Brains helped that happen, it is impossible, in fact mind-bogglingly suicidal, to transfer all self-defence assets off-planet without invoking a major political backlash. "But canon has no parliament/electorial system to speak of!" And one would expect that kind of system to rule the entire of the Inner Space in peace? That's another change in Rebuilt so that things would make sense; The government has been changed to having the High Council acting like a Senate to the Lower and Upper Houses of Parliament, allowing adequate representation of all worlds, and that Bills and Acts can be properly debated before enactment. I'm giving the Houses enough power to Veto the High Council's decisions if more that 75% of the MPs agree. Makes for more sense, more drama, and what I believe would bring out more of Carym as the representative of the Belka Aligned Territories outside of Midchilda. So at the end of the day, the High Council could only move some gear off-planet, leaving a token force floating in orbit. That would mean a very small handful of Frames amongst the mage-dominant battle group able to respond to the Gadgets' assault on 912. However, if Chrono had been thinking carefully, he would've noticed that only the Frames stood any chance of resisting more the Gadgets' AMF. With most of his assets missing in action, his arms are pretty much tied until the tide changes. That's I've only 2 Overframes operating for the Navy before 912. It'll be a political game after that to try and bring the Frames back and even deploy them, but that's a Rebuilt plot. And until then, we're gonna see like 1 official Frame every few chapters. That's excluding Celestial Being, since they are vigilante and free from bureacracy. Quote:
Spoiler for Long Explanation:
*goes off to check* Quote:
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Last edited by Kha; 2008-02-17 at 19:25. |
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2008-02-17, 19:38 | Link #19912 | |||||||||
*facepalm.jpg*
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Holy crap! Four more pages to the HOLY 10,000! All stations! Full power!!!! @ Tears of Northern Wind: my apology for the contents. well, there's always the Special DVD UNCUT version Time for quick backlog recap. =========== Quote:
*runs* Quote:
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*runs* Actually, there's the epilogue. ========= Quote:
Hurray for Mayura! Quote:
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Dun! DUN! DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN!!!!!!!!!!! Anyway, welcome to the world, Anita. Hope you'll enjoy your stay. ============ Quote:
And credits for including the ever-kickass Koujinsen. ================= *cue theme of El Dora V* I concur. *salutes* I've been wondering of that, too. =========== Quote:
----------- I've been wondering to make a pseudo-sequel of my 2007 Animax Anime Competition's entry (or at least, something like the Girls-with-Guns trilogy *points to Noir, Madlax & El Cazador de la Bruja*). So my question is: should I follow my tried-and-tested "sniper boy" formula or just go with something entirely new? Thanks. |
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2008-02-17, 19:45 | Link #19913 | ||
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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20,000 actually
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I guess you haven't seen Mayura's latest entry then? You'll like who I brought in there Quote:
*runs*
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2008-02-17, 19:50 | Link #19914 | |||||||
The OTHER Time Lord
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The "Other" TARDIS
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Well, whatever drugs you're taking to make it happen... ...STOP IT! I wasn't referring to YOU in specific... Quote:
Ha ha. Yes. VERY funny. Quote:
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<laughs @ inability to deal w/Tsundere> Kha, I thought we'd already established that the Master Tsundere Handler in this merry little band was ME. Quote:
Ehh...not quite. It's more of a D.Gray-Man thing - like how Komui acts when someone says THOSE THREE WORDS... But no. Arcas is no lolicon - not seriously anyway - if he is, it's more in the vein of Irie from Higurashi - played purely for comedy. Quote:
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I'll have to debate you on that...the greatest in the world is: UGUU~ POWAH!!! |
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2008-02-17, 19:56 | Link #19915 | ||
Adeptus Animus
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Age: 36
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I will allow rare exceptions, such as the Chief, and even the admirals prototype (though he has some explaining to do why an official research facillity is working on that stuff) But the TSAB itself fielding power armors, frames, whatever you want to call it? No. Way. I'm drawing a firm line here, this is a show about magic, a world about magic. To turn this into the next 'battle of the cybernetics' would destroy that world. We wouldn't even recognise it as the Nanoha world anymore. Where's the magic? Where's the seemingly impossible but stylish battle clothing? Gone and replaced with steel plates and wires. Tell me, and answer this one honestly, is that how you see Nanoha? Quote:
Keroko-chan: *pokes Arcas in the back of his head* No, instead you're an insensitive jerk who does everything he can to avoid us getting boyfriends. |
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2008-02-17, 20:02 | Link #19916 | ||
VxR Productions
IT Support
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and the closest thing that amounts to having too many of them is for one group/s to have them in reserve/backup/tool of last resort, and for said group to not operate in the civil Blue and Green Zones, leaving the neutral Yellow and hostile Orange and especially dangerous Red zones to said group/s with suits- well as for me, no TSAB in the Orange and Red zones though- a third party takes care of them. the AX is one such group... even rebuilt does not mention them... Though the closest i can think to anything powered armor-ish which is even remotely feasible as of now are the Otome-type robes... Quote:
though i was thinking of a Constitutional Monarchy instead... may serve justice to my Royal Character... One is independent of the other two, but one's decisions can affect all three... Luckily, the TSAB has chosen wisely so far in rebuilt, not allowing the civil authority to take action... If things were different and that the civil authority has dealt with it with a 'special rule' - the Cradle would have been taken down at 500 feet terran... And a very cracky thing entered my mind... What if the TSAB also has/had this motto as well... We begin the Armed Intervention of Conflict with Magic... *runs from Thrones* I brought in the Cardinal... and also Pope Carim... *runs from Vatican AX* ==== Yes... I'm not feeling well...
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Last edited by Saint X; 2008-02-17 at 20:14. |
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2008-02-17, 20:24 | Link #19917 | ||
*facepalm.jpg*
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In before Stalker. *runs* |
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2008-02-17, 20:27 | Link #19918 | |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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Here
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*headshot >>> Lowe*
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2008-02-17, 20:38 | Link #19920 | |
Secret Society BLANKET
Graphic Designer
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 3 times the passion of normal flamenco
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It's sounding more and more like the Swarm every second, next thing you know a Protoss Mothership comes in and... The question of who Araidne is is intriguing though, and with the ex-Lightnings being the swarm's next target I'm really looking forward to where this goes
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