Guilty Crown - General Discussion

[Sinestra]

Episode 1

visually very stunning and the music fit the theme as well especially bgm. Character designs are sleek yet standard. Gives a dark kind of grimy feel similar to Darker than Black.

Interesting to see that Japan is occupied somewhat because of pandemic. Whats unusual is it seems its a number of countries and not just one. They however did not mention which countries are the so called occupying force but that hardly matters.

Any story where the bad guys use the word "Purge" to justify their actions can most def be consider evil or at least misguided.

Not much else to go other than the kid seems to be fighting against his own cowardice but was not sure how till these events unfolded right before him. Of course he gets a strange and grand power what he does with it will be another story. I can see if fighting against himself and his own weaknesses in this story.

Im keeping this one on the books most def perked my interest.

[MrTerrorist]

Well that was a great 1st episode. Great animation, music, voice cast and characters.

I failed to see any resemblance Guilty Crown has with Code Geass since the only thing similar i saw was the crackdown on the slums.

[klare]

the animation is very good, Inori is cute and sexy, but Shu looks like any other high school hero, the story sounds like the familiar boy-with-no-real-friends found a purpose, super power and a girl (may be more girls later) formula

i dont mind watching this for the graphics and actions, also interested in Shu's new power (i like big swords) and hope to see more of the future settings (i get some GiTS feel here)

[Kaoru Chujo]

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

Did anyone else have significant problems with it? I don't know. It's a pretty show, and the music is great. Inori's voice actress can sing. I thought that it was kind of racist and sexist?... It's obvious that Guilty Crown was created to inspire nationalism in Japanese otaku. And granted, the world doesn't have a high opinion of the US in general. But all of the foreign characters are exceedingly evil. Not to mention that the first couple of villains are violent stereotypes of african-american men. One abuses women and one is a thug. Great.

As for being sexist, the character designs sexualized women in a horrendous way. They've become objects. Inori's clothing and submissive nature--the fact that she's naked and kissing a phallic skull in the first scene while singing? Look at these scenes; this is only the first episode and already it's out of control.... It was also exceedingly cliche. Childhood friends? "I couldn't do anything to protect her"? Ugh. Shu is the weakest protagonist we've seen in awhile.

Interesting points. Racist and sexist? Sure. But that doesn't make it unusual in anime, or in Japanese life in general. And I think Inori is more sexy than sexist. She has a passive side, but she also has enormous moral strength. (edit: I agree that kissing the skull is fairly extreme, but extremely sexy. Nothing wrong with that.)

As for cliches, I'd say no more than most. Not being able to protect the people close to you appears to be a Japanese meme. Can't deny a people its main ideas. How the memes are presented and evolved is more important to me that that they are used.

Personally, I find the protagonist strong, not weak. He is devastated that his country is being occupied and that he couldn't protect someone in the past from harm. We jump right in to that attitude, and he feels he has failed, but in fact when a real opportunity to resist comes up, he takes it almost at once.

I admit that I am always weirded out when one of the great imperialist and industrial powers of the twentieth century shows us that it thinks of itself as downtrodden and taken advantage of, but this is not the only show to do that, and other aspects here help me accept it. The recent US commemorations of 9/11 gave me a similar feeling.

I see why people claim similarities to Code Geass, and the situation has parallels, but the shows don't feel the same to me. For one thing, there was nothing like the bizarre future British empire, and this was not leavened with stupid humor. And the protagonist was very different: neither as confident nor (for me) as annoying. I don't like CG much, in case you can't tell, lol.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

It's obvious that Guilty Crown was created to inspire nationalism in Japanese otaku. And granted, the world doesn't have a high opinion of the US in general. But all of the foreign characters are exceedingly evil. Not to mention that the first couple of villains are violent stereotypes of african-american men. One abuses women and one is a thug. Great.

It isn't exactly the truest sense of nationalism you can get, but it is the very same reason why other countries usually base their own animated products about their own nations.
GC is hardly the first one showing Japan being affected by oppression, and hardly this kind of show have a huge message "we are the martyrs, the rest of the world is our filfthy enemies". Furthermore, the fun fact is that without the help of the outsiders, Japanese citizens would be doomed due to the context in GC.
Funnily enough, if you consider theses 2 characters are a cliché of bad guys, what about Gai? No matter how you look at him, he is no way your japanese guy at all.

As for being sexist, I mean, just look at the character designs. It's possible to sexualize women while simultaneously empowering them--Guilty Crown isn't doing it. Inori's clothing and submissive nature Inori's clothing and submissive nature--the fact that she's naked and kissing a phallic skull in the first scene while singing? Look at these scenes; this is only the first episode and already it's out of control.

Actually, that design of the skull is quite usual in demon depictions (that and usual barren deserts), and... honestly it is hardly close to a phallic form, especially if you look at the front of it.
As for the bold clothing, it is honestly quite tame in comparison with multiple shows which make GC look like a prude show.
Not saying there isn't any fanservice, but in the case of GC, it is hardly something outrageous (otherwise, things like Ghost in the Shell would be in the same situation if we go that far...)

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

It's obvious that Guilty Crown was created to inspire nationalism in Japanese otaku. And granted, the world doesn't have a high opinion of the US in general. But all of the foreign characters are exceedingly evil. Not to mention that the first couple of villains are violent stereotypes of african-american men. One abuses women and one is a thug. Great.

That sort of thing has always been a strong undercurrent in a lot of anime. This is actually extremely tame compared to the stuff I've come across. It's only been one episode so we only have a minimal amount of knowledge of how foreign countries/governments are in this anime and I don't think it's enough to jump to any conclusions.

[Triple_R]

One point I want to make about the antagonists in this.

I found it interesting how the GHQ Supreme Commander is officially being kept in the dark on what the exact nature of this genome is. That kind of begs the question: If he's officially being kept in the dark about this, what else is he being kept in the dark (officially or unofficially) about?

Do people see where I'm going with this?


Basically, I wouldn't yet assume that all of the "foreigners" in this anime are clear-cut bad guys. It could be a case that you have a shadowy subgroup within the larger GHQ that's doing truly horrible stuff on the sly, without the head honchos even being aware of it.

If this is the case, there may be more moral ambiguity to this anime (and less xenophobia <----- more accurate term than nationalism, I think) than what currently seem to be the case.

[kuroishinigami]

Well, visually, I'll give the 1st episode 10/10, but the characters are just ridiculous in a bad way.

Example 1 : Gai : are you abandoning her once again?
My response : well duh, do you expecthim to just jump in there with gun pointed at me and die uselessly while she will still get taken away after he died?

Example 2 : Shu : emo-ing because Inori get taken away
My response : Duh, she's a terrorist as far as you're concerned. Are you going to save a cute girl you just met against official government without even knowing whether she's really a terrorist or not? Are you going to save a serial killers from the police as long as she's cute? =.="

Hopefully they'll fix the characterization better starting next episode once the characters' background start to get exposed.

[dark998]

Originally Posted by tsunade666

I also think that the girl from before was different but Inori isn't look like a human at all though she bleeds. But she looks like a hologram at some point.

Inori is human. I think she was using some kind of optical camouflage so she could barge in and steal the genome. The mech of wheelchair girl also had it.

[TrueKnight]

The GHQs aren’t those type of people that I would actually called saints. I mean they did shoot indiscriminately on the civillians, though it could be some sort of shadow company or covert ops that did those stuffs. And Gai looks a lot more Caucassian than Japanese, then again perhaps thats the authors’ attempt to make all Japanese looked white like in most of their other cartoon series lol.... Anyway I think we ought to give the show couple of eps or so before passing a preliminary judgment whether or not to continue watching, but thats just me.

Understand about the Shu-hate, but come on... he's not that bad. All his actions so far are at least believable..aside on his male hormones pursuing Inori..compared with let's say... Banagher Links..

[Arabesque]

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

It's obvious that Guilty Crown was created to inspire nationalism in Japanese otaku. And granted, the world doesn't have a high opinion of the US in general. But all of the foreign characters are exceedingly evil. Not to mention that the first couple of villains are violent stereotypes of african-american men. One abuses women and one is a thug. Great.

I have seen this point raised a few times already, and while I do think it's an interesting interpretation (Shuu had shown frustration with how Japan wasn't functioning as country anymore after the pandemic, implying a sense of longing for lost nationalistic pride etc.), I think it's far too early to guess what the message the show is trying to send about Japan relaying on foreign aid.

I mean, while director Araki had worked previously on shows that had material that usually supported right-wing views on the political spectrum, I don't think we can make an early judgment call on whether this show is sending the message that Japan shouldn't really on anyone other than it's own or similar propaganda.

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

As for being sexist, I mean, just look at the character designs. It's possible to sexualize women while simultaneously empowering them--Guilty Crown isn't doing it. Inori's clothing and submissive nature Inori's clothing and submissive nature--the fact that she's naked and kissing a phallic skull in the first scene while singing? Look at these scenes; this is only the first episode and already it's out of control.

You know, maybe it's just me trying to convince myself (since this is clearly a show with higher sexual drive than previous noitaminA shows) but it's not that bad compared to many other shows that emphasize on the fanservice aspect. I mean yeah, skimpy clothe, suggestive poses, orgasmic moans while in mecha, and going by the preview Tsugumi's butt is going to get some attention + more boob jiggles are clearly forms of sexual appeal and fanservice, but I can't say it felt forced to me.

[TrueKnight]

^ I think I agree with the previous poster on Inori’s role. She’s there for the fanservice. No way a girl running away from danger Indiana Jones style while wearing an out of place and ineffective revealing outfit. Gotta admit she’s there to appease the 90% male viewers watching the show, and so far it works.

[Toto y Moi]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Interesting points. Racist and sexist? Sure. But that doesn't make it unusual in anime, or in Japanese life in general. And I think Inori is more sexy than sexist. She has a passive side, but she also has enormous moral strength.

My main problem with that is how Inori is depicted. Even after being kicked in the face, for some reason she's in this sexy pose? Her breasts jiggle in that scene, her cheeks are flushed...it's so unrealistic and laughable. It's solely done for the sake of fanservice, and I consider it sexist to treat female characters like that.

Originally Posted by Haak

That sort of thing has always been a strong undercurrent in a lot of anime. This is actually extremely tame compared to the stuff I've come across. It's only been one episode so we only have a minimal amount of knowledge of how foreign countries/governments are in this anime and I don't think it's enough to jump to any conclusions.

Even if it's not unusual for racist depictions to exist, does that make it right? In 2011, there are plenty of modern-day anime in which people of all skin colors aren't treated as dehumanized stereotypes. I don't understand how a program that's already showed it thinks people of color are scum is being so lauded.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

As for cliches, I'd say no more than most. Not being able to protect the people close to you appears to be a Japanese meme. Can't deny a people its main ideas. How the memes are presented and evolved is more important to me that that they are used.

It's not a meme, it's an overused trope. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people do this exact same pose in anime; eyes covered by hair, grit teeth, fist clenched, looking down. It's the typical pose of the weak.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Personally, I find the protagonist strong, not weak. He is devastated that his country is being occupied and that he couldn't protect someone in the past from harm. We jump right in to that attitude, and he feels he has failed, but in fact when a real opportunity to resist comes up, he takes it almost at once.

I actually didn't mean that he's weak in terms of courage--he's definitely got balls. But personality-wise, he's timid, nervous, and indecisive. He's the type that mostly does what other people tell him to do.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It isn't exactly the truest sense of nationalism you can get, but it is the very same reason why other countries usually base their own animated products about their own nations.
GC is hardly the first one showing Japan being affected by oppression, and hardly this kind of show have a huge message "we are the martyrs, the rest of the world is our filfthy enemies". Furthermore, the fun fact is that without the help of the outsiders, Japanese citizens would be doomed due to the context in GC.
Funnily enough, if you consider theses 2 characters are a cliché of bad guys, what about Gai? No matter how you look at him, he is no way your japanese guy at all.

I wasn't so much as saying that they're cliché bad guys, but that they're stereotypically negative depictions of African-Americans.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Actually, that design of the skull is quite usual in demon depictions (that and usual barren deserts), and... honestly it is hardly close to a phallic form, especially if you look at the front of it.
As for the bold clothing, it is honestly quite tame in comparison with multiple shows which make GC look like a prude show.
Not saying there isn't any fanservice, but in the case of GC, it is hardly something outrageous (otherwise, things like Ghost in the Shell would be in the same situation if we go that far...)

It's not even the clothing--look at their faces. Shu enters his hand in Inori and she makes an erotic moan. She's kissing a skull like she's worshiping it, and the form is vaguely phallic. The imagery is there. That's what I have a problem with.

[Iron21]

I wonder if people realize this is just the first episode out of 22. It's not just here that I'm seeing it, but I think the Code Geass comparisons is really clouding people judgement. I see people going outta their way to make comparisons between the two by watching the 1st episodes side by side. I think people will enjoy it more if they just watch it for what it is and not go out to just look for comparison with different anime and then call it too cliche or ripoff because you found similarities between them.

[Blue-kun]

Quick impressions because I'm off to work in a bit. First episode was alright, very good visuals, great music by Sawano (and Ryo) and... that's that for the great stuff. The story/characters weren't bad, certainly, but I like opening episodes where I do understand a bit of each character/group motivation for acting in a certain way, and this time around it all felt a lot like "a bunch of people I know little about doing a bunch of things I don't really understand fully". Hard to get very excited over it. Still... was it entertaining? Yeah, a good bunch, my main gripe is that a lot of the time I had myself going "huh?" at some of the character's reactions, many of which were already discussed above by a lot of viewers.

On a more positive note, those flashbacks/different timelines/whatever they are were pretty intriguing, and I do have to wonder whether or not they will be related to the game that Nitro+ is working on. If they are, then hopefully at least the groundwork for it to be understandable will be laid out on the actual series, because not everyone (in particular the english speaking viewers) will have access to the game, and that would be just poor storytelling, anyhow. Still, assuming they will develop this, it could turn out to be a potentially cool story that will end up backing up Shu's non-existant reasons at this point in trying to protect Inori.

That said, I actually ended up enjoying UN-GO a bit more, if only because some of the characters actually came across as pretty fun (oh you, genderbent Inga boss <3), but both show promise and I'll be sure to check out next week's episode. I think it's the first time ever since noitaminA entered this two shows format that I'm actually watching both of their offerings. Something to be happy about, I guess?

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

It's not a meme, it's an overused trope. I can't tell you how many times I've seen people do this exact same pose in anime; eyes covered by hair, grit teeth, fist clenched, looking down. It's the typical pose of the weak.



She's kissing a skull like she's worshiping it, and the form is vaguely phallic. The imagery is there. That's what I have a problem with.

You may have a point on fanservice and xenophobia but on these two, your just oversensitive.

As to that being an overused trope.....so? What matters is how it's executed not how often it is used.

[jeroz]

personally i find the characters and set up to be the weakest part of the first episode

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Toto y Moi

I thought that it was kind of racist and sexist?

It's obvious that Guilty Crown was created to inspire nationalism in Japanese otaku. And granted, the world doesn't have a high opinion of the US in general. But all of the foreign characters are exceedingly evil. Not to mention that the first couple of villains are violent stereotypes of african-american men. One abuses women and one is a thug. Great.

Hmm, I really didn't notice that. Perhaps it doesn't carry the same implications of race as it does in say, the United States.

It can be safely assumed that productions are gonna be very biased and centered around the home country, and portraying foreigners in a negative light is sadly natural.

As for being sexist, I mean, just look at the character designs. It's possible to sexualize women while simultaneously empowering them--Guilty Crown isn't doing it. Inori's clothing and submissive nature Inori's clothing and submissive nature--the fact that she's naked and kissing a phallic skull in the first scene while singing? Look at these scenes; this is only the first episode and already it's out of control.

Well, I agree with this. I don't like her outfit at all. And I thought Motoko from GITS had it bad with that stripper outfit.

It was also exceedingly cliche. Childhood friends? "I couldn't do anything to protect her"? Ugh. Shu is the weakest protagonist we've seen in awhile.

Well, you have to start somewhere... it has the feel of an action flick. I wouldn't worry too much about that yet.

[Syed_Seinaru_Migi]

WOW this is really good...the beginning song really good...also poor Inori only bloody scene everytime she appear and Shu have coward/brave personalities make him look like a cool guy..especially the scene when he summon a sword..to save Inori back then...cannot for next episode more action....

[Yuna Amakura]

Why can't people judge something by its own merits, instead of establishing bizarre comparisons such as the one with F/Z? Geez...
About the episode itself, I like its structure since I prefer non-didactic first episodes, and this one is also filled with action. But the series per se, failled to get my attention. For the time being, not a single character really interest me, and the story does not really amuse me. However, since this is only the first episode, I can't say anything for sure, and things may change for the best.