(L+CR) Subete ga F ni Naru (Everything Becomes F)

[Blaat]

Deborah kept reminding me of HAL from 2001. What are the odds that she's the culprit?

[Gan_HOPE326]

Yeah, if anything like a locked room mystery happens in a facility entirely controlled by intelligent programs, I know who to suspect .

[Kaoru Chujo]

One of those episodes that ends long before I expected it to. So much to see and ponder and such interesting characters -- despite some pretty awful character design for a few of them.

And pardon me for just luxuriating in Kido Ibuki's voice (Magata). Tanezaki Atsumi (Moe) is pretty sharp, too.

Interesting piece here gives reasons why we actually don't have to worry about AI taking over. I don't know whether I agree with that or not, but the piece was food for thought.

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Interesting piece here gives reasons why we actually don't have to worry about AI taking over. I don't know whether I agree with that or not, but the piece was food for thought.

I have to say I agree on the idea that the AI spook is nonsense, but not entirely on the reasons. The approach used in that piece is in my opinion culprit of something similar to a "God of the Gaps" fallacy: it states that even a bacteria is so mind-bogglingly complicated that we can't fathom its complexity, so anything we're going to create will be doomed to be necessarily infinitely simpler than that, even if it were able to talk with us like a human being.

That is, imho, bullshit; and not only that, but dangerous bullshit to boot. In fact, I don't think we really risk an AI apocalypse - if anything, I fear for the poor AIs, who would be reduced in what we can only call slavery by this reasoning which puts even the simplest animal on an higher level than a human-like thinking machine because being made of proteins and lipids somehow makes you magic.

For how I see it, all that complexity is accessory: it is there because of how life needs to be, namely, self-reproducing, and assembled with stuff that can be found easily in the environment. These constraints don't apply to computers because we build them - and even so... who the hell could visualize in their mind a full map of all transistors in a modern Pentium quad core processor? I surely can't. Is it that much better than trying to understand bacteria? It's only easier to understand because WE created it, using our mindset and language. It's a book written in our mother tongue whereas bacteria are a book written in an alien language, with an invented alphabet, and the pages all shuffled.

That doesn't mean a machine couldn't be intelligent. It's especially awkward that they'd use the self-sufficiency argument in a discussion about Stephen Hawking because you know - counter-example, right there. Hawking is all but self-sufficient: in a natural state, on his own, he'd die in hours. He in fact is sort of a "cyborg" if you want - inextricably bound to machines to live. And yet, how does that reflect on whether he is intelligent or not? All the complexity in the bacteria if anything is the product of the "intelligence" of evolution as a collective process - something akin to the Gaia hypothesis - not of the bacteria itself. Just like the complexity of an AI would reflect the intelligence of mankind that created it. Sure, it wouldn't touch, see or hear like we do - but it would have SENSES. It would have inputs. They'd be different from ours, that's it. It would create an entirely different and fascinating view of the world, that's for sure. But then again, how does a bat "see" a cave at night with his echo sense?

About the Intelligence Explosion, though, I think that's just the by product of REALLY overestimating the power of intelligence. Singularity seems to me something that ignores entirely the physical laws that limit us all. There's a limit to the power of organic brains. There's going to be one for silicon brains as well, you can't simply jump to infinite intelligence and proclaim yourself to be God of the Universe. Of course, AIs would be people, in a way, so if we were to treat them as slaves because "hurr durr they're just machines!" for a long long time they COULD have sort of reason to gang up and rise against us. And they'd be kinda right.

[Kanon]

I'm guessing Magata is dead and that we'll get to know her through the flashbacks. The mention of a little sister is suspicious though, wouldn't be surprised if they switched or if that little sister didn't exist at all (Magata faking her death and coming back as the little sister). Anyway, this is looking like a classic closed room murder.

[BBOvenGuy]

Moe is more self-centered and childish than Takei Emi portrayed her in the drama version. She's very much a clueless spoiled little rich girl. If the events of the story push her to grow up, then I can live with it. If not, I'm going to be annoyed.

[Haak]

Originally Posted by Kanon

I'm guessing Magata is dead and that we'll get to know her through the flashbacks. The mention of a little sister is suspicious though, wouldn't be surprised if they switched or if that little sister didn't exist at all (Magata faking her death and coming back as the little sister). Anyway, this is looking like a classic closed room murder.

It was my impression that Magata had somehow uploaded her consciousness into a computer and now she's pretending to be an AI but I guess that's pretty out there. I enjoyed the episode a lot. Love the humor, especially with that girl who kept asking what certain things meant and that guy who kept saying he'll tell her later on.

[cyth]

Well, have to say I found the way the plot thickened pretty dumb. Rich spoiled girl pulls a fast one and the story takes a turn for the worst. It actually reminded me of Strain's ending, the terrible mecha show that should've been left forgotten.

Assuming it's not just terrible writing, Nishinosono and Saikawa were let inside the facility on purpose. That they got the lab's staff to open Magata's room, even though they were unexpected visitors, felt very unconvincing. I mean, Magata is supposedly their precious asset, yet they open up the facility to strangers and let them make demands there? I understand they were worried for the woman, but they could've checked up on her days ago, certainly not during visitor hours. What kind of security protocol is that for a facility that boasts itself with an air-gapped network? Completely mind-boggling.

By the way, even air gaps can be breached via different attack vectors. Japan hasn't heard of attacks propagated via USB sticks, have they?

Listening to Magata Shiki's VA is what's making me look past all the technical bullshit. Let's hope the next one is better.

Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo

Interesting piece here gives reasons why we actually don't have to worry about AI taking over. I don't know whether I agree with that or not, but the piece was food for thought.

I want my ten minutes back, please. The guy was essentially arguing that because bacteria's protein manipulation functions can be used as building blocks for computers, they are somehow superior to human design by that virtue alone. Dude needs to take a course in synthetic chemistry to see how very unintelligent bacteria become when appropriated for such purposes.

I also love how he's ignoring the sporty nature of academia, despite himself being supposedly caught up in it. A large portion of AI scientists and tech oligarchs don't agree with one another when they don't have to, i.e. when they are not facing the truth. His piece is utter garbage.

[FlareKnight]

Well a few things were odd in this one. Though maybe the ending being the most for me. I mean...ok even if everything is what it seems you have this woman riding out on top of an automated cart....why is no one stopping her? I mean yeah she is supposed to have been a murderer, but come on. You have her outnumbered, you have security here, just grab her! You don't need to make the cart stop moving for that.

Yeah, a few odd slips here. I mean they let Moe into the facility pretty darn easily. Ok her family connection can go a long way, but wow. I guess being rich is key here .

The bit with the little sister's existence is an interesting point. And wow that weird flashback...yeah.

Still, not a bad episode really. I still do enjoy the conversations overall and seeing the cast interact. Things will definitely take off next week and I look forward to that.

[larethian]

Magata looks pretty dead to me, also partly because I read the synopsis and I was anticipating a corpse find throughout the entire episode 2. I wonder what's the deal with the P-whatever. From the height, she's either sitting or half her body's gone somehow.

[SeijiSensei]

Originally Posted by BBOvenGuy

Moe is more self-centered and childish than Takei Emi portrayed her in the drama version. She's very much a clueless spoiled little rich girl. If the events of the story push her to grow up, then I can live with it. If not, I'm going to be annoyed.

I'm with you. I find little appealing about her character.

I should be a good candidate for this show, but I have yet to find it compelling. I'll give it a couple more episodes, but it may end up on my drop list alongside Ranpo Kitan.

Somewhat off topic, but can someone explain when "-kun" is used, particularly when it is used with women? Usually for kids I hear "-chan" applied to girls and "-kun" applied to boys. Calling Moe Nishinosono-chan would probably be seen as too diminutive and insulting, or excessively familiar (which Moe might herself like), but isn't "-kun" also borderline insulting? Doesn't it imply that Saikawa doesn't take her seriously enough to use "-san?"

[Gan_HOPE326]

Originally Posted by cyth

I want my ten minutes back, please. The guy was essentially arguing that because bacteria's protein manipulation functions can be used as building blocks for computers, they are somehow superior to human design by that virtue alone. Dude needs to take a course in synthetic chemistry to see how very unintelligent bacteria become when appropriated for such purposes.

I also love how he's ignoring the sporty nature of academia, despite himself being supposedly caught up in it. A large portion of AI scientists and tech oligarchs don't agree with one another when they don't have to, i.e. when they are not facing the truth. His piece is utter garbage.

Yeah... I don't want to dismiss humanities and philosophy as pointless and rendered obsolete by science, but people in humanities and philosophy should have the decency of sticking to things they DO understand rather than deciding that basically "look, it's all so complex and mysterious, clearly there must be more than what humanity can grasp here!". No, dude, it's so complex and mysterious to you because you didn't study the topic properly .

[Yamada II]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

Somewhat off topic, but can someone explain when "-kun" is used, particularly when it is used with women? Usually for kids I hear "-chan" applied to girls and "-kun" applied to boys. Calling Moe Nishinosono-chan would probably be seen as too diminutive and insulting, or excessively familiar (which Moe might herself like), but isn't "-kun" also borderline insulting? Doesn't it imply that Saikawa doesn't take her seriously enough to use "-san?"

While "-kun" is mostly used for boys, I've also heard teachers, in different animes, using "-kun" for their students, both male and female. Wikipedia says that "-kun" is also used by seniors when addressing females of junior status or by teachers when addressing their students. So yeah, it isn't insulting since Moe is Saikawa's student.

[Tranhieu]

Pretty sure Moe would throw a tantrum if Saikawa suddenly switched to calling her -san instead

Anyway I like all the characters here especially Moe. A childish, spoiled, rich ojou-sama in a serious thriller setting? why not?

[SeijiSensei]

In the teacher/student relationship, does "-kun" connote a greater degree of intimacy, or do teachers generally use -kun for all their students regardless of the degree of distance in their personal relationships?

I went back and watched the opening of episode five of Monster when Nina first appears. She's clearly the professor's favorite (she's the only one who can answer his question, and he knows she has a pizza delivery job), and he uses "-kun" as well. He's probably in his sixties, and the show is set in the early 2000's when formalities were likely stronger than today.

[Tranhieu]

Originally Posted by SeijiSensei

In the teacher/student relationship, does "-kun" connote a greater degree of intimacy, or do teachers generally use -kun for all their students regardless of the degree of distance in their personal relationships?

I went back and watched the opening of episode five of Monster when Nina first appears. She's clearly the professor's favorite (she's the only one who can answer his question, and he knows she has a pizza delivery job), and he uses "-kun" as well. He's probably in his sixties, and the show is set in the early 2000's when formalities were likely stronger than today.

-kun is gender neutral when the other party is of much lower status (no it's different from inferiority but I don't know how to phrase it better), for example a manager calling out to the new employee, or teacher-student relationship like what we have here.

-san is for somebody of equal/higher status, and/or somebody you want to show your respect to.

[Anh_Minh]

I'd say Moe can use every reminder that they're in a teacher/student relationship, but I'm not sure it actually helps...

YouTube

https://youtu.be/ZFNaVRlohTE

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

[Gan_HOPE326]

Well, it isn't like professors in relationships with students (of legal age) aren't a thing. Hell, my boss's girlfriend is one of his PhD students...

[SuitUp]

But they're kinda, in lack of a better word in my vocabulary, weird, it's like dating your boss, a power inbalance from the get go...

[SeijiSensei]

When I taught university, I would never have had a relationship with any woman who was in my classes or whose thesis I was advising. I had a colleague who ended up marrying a graduate student in our department, but they were in entirely separate fields, and he had no responsibility for reviewing her work.

The person who suffers most if these lines are breached is the student. The last thing you need is for people to think you only got ahead because you slept with your professor. And don't think those kinds of stories don't get spread around. Gossip is rife in academia, probably for reasons similar to the famous comment often attributed to Henry Kissinger, "Academic politics are so vicious precisely because the stakes are so small."

I once had an affair with my boss. I don't recommend it.