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View Poll Results: Macross Frontier - Episode 25 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 133 | 39.82% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 81 | 24.25% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 32 | 9.58% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 27 | 8.08% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 11 | 3.29% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 10 | 2.99% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 4 | 1.20% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 3 | 0.90% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 1 | 0.30% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 32 | 9.58% | |
Voters: 334. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-09-10, 05:57 | Link #1741 | ||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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She was in government care after her abduction for quite a while. She could have told them at any time what happened. Quote:
Just LOL. Please google what "argument" means. It's not "wild fantasy". Quote:
And, sorry, not buying that argument at all that she only wanted her song to for Alto but she still totally cared about Frontier. Quote:
Yeah, I am a bit facetious about Michael, although not by much. Michael died because Ranka could not get it together to control the Vajra. Full point. That she actually did manage to get herself together shortly after his death is not helping her position any. I am not blaming Ranka for unwittingly unleashing the Vajra larvaes on Frontier. She couldn't have known that they were there, she couldn't have known the exact effect her emotions would have on them. But I do blame her for not being able to compose herself enough fast enough to stop all that bloodshed. Her whole breakdown over Alto is ridiculous in the first place. Just one episode prior she was still commiting herself to protecting Frontier but in the same episode ( if you include the end of ep 18 ) that she comes to terms with her feelings for Alto she becomes so damned obsessed that she has a full fledged freak-out? Sorry, but that doesn't fly with me. Quote:
And, hey, if she wanted Alto to come with her, maybe she should have told him something more effective than "I want to bring Ai-kun back to his friends". If she thought that there would be no chance that Alto would come with her, why have the meeting in the first place? Quote:
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In any case, I'll concede that Ranka maybe didn't know about how far along Sheryl and Alto had gotten in their relationship. Which just means that her challenge still is silly. Only that she doesn't know that at that point. ^^ Quote:
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Sorry, but I don't have to walk back from just simply stating the obvious truth. Look up your latest post just above and tell me that you don't do exactly what I told you do. You have a tendendy to take single sentences and write multiple paragraph answers to those, which makes it incredibly tiring to have a running argument with you, because responding in detail to those paragraphs produces huge post-monsters.
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2012-09-10, 06:01 | Link #1742 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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2012-09-10, 06:58 | Link #1743 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
Heya~ I am a Ranka-addict
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Singapore
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Grand Counterattack
magnuskn...
I believe it is time for the grand counterattack. 私と君の決闘。私の力を見って!! Wait. No. I see that this argument involves too many personal attacks to Ranka. I will change my attitude too. All in the name of good sport, of course! Also, may I take the liberty to just... well answer your points in Random order? I am pressed for time with my work... Quote:
I would like to emphasize on the worldly issues Ranka encounter compared to Alto, Sheryl. (No I am not going to use "and".) Alto had a good family background and a good bloodline. However, he left his home and lived by his own since he decided to chase his dreams as a pilot. Having to leave alone since a young age means that he has matured way faster than what normal teens that age have to deal with. He had to deal with life's demands, and he naturally had to make decisions by himself during those years he lived alone. Sheryl was a girl that lived in the harsh Galaxy, where the slums are abundant and living conditions were bad (from what I see, I may be wrong though, you Sheryl gurus may fill me in on the conditions there anytime). She was abandoned (?) and she had to face many worldly challenges too. She had to survive, and she had to make many decisions to survive since her young age. She was likewise, like Alto, forced by their lives to have to learn to make choices since a young age. Ranka was different. She may have suffered from the trauma of having lost her family, but Ozma adopted her. At least she grew up having a father-esque brother. Her family was more complete, and judging from how protective Ozma is of her little sister, it would be very logical that she had to make few choices in her life herself. Ozma settled everything for her, and in Episode 5 (Miss Macross, correct me if I am wrong) Ranka mentioned that she did not like to be forced into the "prissy all girls school" that she had to go to because of Ozma. Judging from her character, Ranka may have been perhaps affected by either Ozma or her trauma that she grew in maturity much slower. Her growing into an independent, decision making woman was also one of the focuses of the series. By episode 21, she made her choice to make peace with the Vajura. Quote:
"Is this all my fault...?" (Not a direct quote) She was already emotionally unsure whether her song was hurting or helping, whether she had really caused the destruction and death of her family, and the fact that Grace was manipulating her. After she was shown all those clips from her past, she naturally broke down. This is not a display of weak will. This is about how she was able to take a catastrophic fact (to her). She acted the way any normal person would: Break down. During the high point of her sadness, she was exploited by Grace, by her false promises of "redemption" from the "bad" that she had "committed". (Wait... did you expect a 16 year old, emotionally traumatized girl to go "No! I refuse to believe that! This is not true!"?) Quote:
Really, I feel this point hard to argue about. But yes, I have to agree with your point, if she did tell. Then again, what would showing pictures and being able to talk have to do with Alto hating the Vajura less? It has no effect in dampening the effect that the Vajura destroying Ranka's family's fact have on Alto... perhaps you can enlighten me on this one. Quote:
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Please be patient with this one! Screw my nice manners. I am going all-out now. Give me time, and I will be back soon. Quote:
Now... Your sentence is trying to say that being professional means being someone that has totally no feelings. Quietly leave? She has not even been declared the loser yet. She was about to confess when she saw that sight on the balcony, further deepening the initial injury. Why did Alto not bother? Perhaps... He was still unsure who he would choose at that point? And many sane persons would go and ask... give me proof if you want proof from my statement. Nobody is going to take that seriously without evidence. (Playing the evidence war with me? Blast all my points to oblivion and I will too) Being professional is one thing, being human is another. Ranka is not a professional by any standards considering her little amount of time she had to handle her military job. Quote:
You misunderstood: I was saying that to my knowledge, I knew that everyone has that defense mechanism. Memory lost is usually triggered by high emotional trauma, with varying results with each individual. Every person has it. It is whether it is triggered or not. I know my science. Please. Quote:
Her experiences were made through her resolve for Alto: Protect Frontier? Alto. Make Peace with Vajura? Alto. Go on a possibly dangerous journey? Alto. At the end, episode 25, Ranka also sang--for Alto. Describe to me how that is laughable and I will decimate your comment if I can. In fact, I think it would be more graceful for Sheryl to give up considering she already knew the confession, instead of still sticking around. Quote:
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This point as been stomped to the ground harder than smashing a V9 at full speed into the Battle Frontier. Quote:
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If you want elaboration, here is it. Ranka, when she was captured by the Queen, did get shown stuff, but the problem is whether she felt it was important or not. Please look at it from a perspective of a 16 year old too. Episode 12. You are discrediting Ranka. She is often the one that needs saving. But in this episode, Ranka was the one saving Alto. Quote:
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She started out trying to reach Alto with her songs. Quote:
She could not control her feelings because she is not a hardcore professional singer like Sheryl. Ranka was but an ordinary human with feelings too. It is not on her intent. She tried to help. In both morality and utilitarianism she is right. Quote:
She is NOT, I repeat, NOT ditching her responsibilities. She took it up formlessly when she went to the Vajura Planet. And Brera was her escort because Brera is up to it. Overruled. And makes this part completely pointless. It is not explicitly stated in the anime nor is it even mentioned nor hinted. As you said... Provide me evidence. Quote:
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She had no evidence that Grace was the enemy. She had no evidence that she would be controlled. So... third point overruled. She did not leave her people to their deaths, this statement is made on the basis that Ranka is the president of Frontier. Alright, fine, if the humans were "her" people, the Vajura were "her" people too. She is in the area of gray morality here, when you look closely. You are treating the Vajura as if they are non-living. Total crapshoot is an extreme description. Are you that sure it wouldn't work out? She had no evidence it wouldn't work out. Then again, she also had no evidence it would. It sorta balances out. Being unable to stand up to the pressure, the action that she takes after that was not running away though. It had Alto--and indirectly, Frontier's--interests in mind. Quote:
I am saddened by your description of her. Ranka has sympathy for her enemy, or perhaps not even her enemy
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2012-09-10, 07:38 | Link #1744 | ||||||||||||||||||||||
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Age: 48
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Alto himself immediately switched sides and let go of his hate for the Vajra when presented with evidence of their true intentions, much later on in the series. Quote:
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Not buying your "everyone has it". At all. Quote:
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Ep 16: How the hell can anybody who is not mentally damaged consider something like that not important? One needs to be in full-fledged apologia mode to dismiss this point. Quote:
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But, ah, I forgot that Ranka cannot be held accountable for anything, because she is puuuure and innoceeeeent. Quote:
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And Grace pretty surely was in sort of a "godmode". How the hell did she manage to survive the next wave of that planet full of Vajra? In any case, that actually is irrelevant to the rest of the argument here. Innocent as the pure driven snoooooow. I.e. not actually fit for adult relationships. Quote:
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She left Frontier defenseless, to the best of her knowledge. But, hey, she is only a child in your interpretation, higher cognitive functions therefore do not apply, right? The Vajra are living beings. Beings who chose to invade and kill and maim, without trying to otherwise communicate. So, yeah, I hold them in low esteem.
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Last edited by magnuskn; 2012-09-10 at 09:44. Reason: Minor grammar stuff |
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2012-09-10, 07:50 | Link #1745 |
Heya~ I am a Ranka-addict
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Singapore
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I am about-ready for the next wave of attack.
And I did not anticipate your needing of the link, but I will, ok, just give me like an hour or so. And your sarcasm will be dismantled on my watch. Trust me. I am legion. Provided that the mods give me a chance to launch the attack that is... Wait... can you please wait till tomorrow afternoon? Then I will have a lot of free time to post back. Meanwhile, you may keep giving your opinions, I will try to counter. Let me emphasize: it is not because of her innocence nor her weak will, I have never stated that...
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Last edited by Ozuma-Rii; 2012-09-10 at 08:39. |
2012-09-10, 16:46 | Link #1747 |
Heya~ I am a Ranka-addict
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Singapore
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Scrap it. Give me one month and I will give you an essay with all the screencaps, of every single episode, and counter to point. One month of ceasefire, and Ozuma of the rebellion will be back on this thread. Meanwhile, fire what you have at me, I will answer them all duly in one month's time. That way, it will be a win-win situation, as this is the hot time for the EOYs and we have to get over what reality demands first. So long. When I am back, be prepared to counterattack.
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2012-09-10, 17:58 | Link #1751 | |
Heya~ I am a Ranka-addict
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Singapore
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Excessive amount of smileys? Are you referring to BleachOD? Nope, her debating style is rabid, I am not like her. I just thought screencaps.would better facilitate evidence, I will also be citing medical documents from online.
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2012-09-10, 20:09 | Link #1755 |
Dame Cheesie
Graphic Designer
Join Date: May 2004
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'I wish you'd all effing shut it and move with me to Africa instead'... was what went through my mind, but as this wouldn't be helpful to the thread at all, might I suggest to the Ranka character thread instead, as it seems to be more fitting there.
I've been skimming through the thread, and reading about the final episode does bring back memories. I must've replayed Alto's salute scene to Sheryl in the end at least ten times, and it's still no less touching because I just melted into fangirl goo on the spot. (Heads up, Natsu. ) |
2012-09-10, 20:42 | Link #1756 | |
Heya~ I am a Ranka-addict
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Singapore
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2012-09-10, 20:57 | Link #1758 |
Heya~ I am a Ranka-addict
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Singapore
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Don't get it wrong, I downloaded the episode so I know.
He holds up his palm, two fingers extended. Ranka saluted back with two fingers extended also. The exact two fingers. It was a strange salute, usually salutes are performed with all the fingers extended.
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2012-09-10, 21:16 | Link #1760 |
Dame Cheesie
Graphic Designer
Join Date: May 2004
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Heh.
The Alto/Sheryl scene was a homage scene to Do You Remember Love, in reference to Hikaru's salute to his love, Misa. People had posted a thorough step-by-step process of why it's impossible for Alto to have saluted Ranka as well, but the pictures had expired back in 2008 and I'd rather not pick it up. It raised a big hoo-ha at the time it aired, but basically, both the English and Japanese speaking fandoms have come to the agreement that the salute was definitely for Sheryl. Hm, I think I may have started something else here. At least it was on-topic. |
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