Character Discussion - Suzaku

[lousylaus]

Ya, it's true that if Gino wasn't around, Kallen would be dead with Suzaku still alive and well.

Was more of a draw than a win for Kallen.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

According to Kallen, the Guren is much more superior than the Albion.

So techincally speaking the victory goes to Suzaku.

He stopped Kallen from reaching Lelouch and was able to move on to the next phase of the plan which involved his death.

That and Kallen would've died had it not been for Gino who came in and saved her. So yes it ended in a draw but the victory still goes to Suzaku who was able to fight her off in an "inferior" machine.

Not so sure. SEITEN is superior. But that was off-set by "Live Geass." So "technically" speaking, it was a tie in the end. Both mechas were unable to fight any long, and both were pretty much shattered. It is fitting really. Suzaku had an overwhelming win at the end of S1. Kallen had an overwhelming win in 18 of R2 and the rest were all ties.

[lousylaus]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

By not being in it . I mean we got to see once again his insane hax in dodging knightmare fire. Very easy for him to get out of the Lancelot and run for it.

Well maybe he was still inside when it exploded but since he's stronger than steel, he survived.

[Airi]

I think he lost on purpose... in order to fake his death.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Not so sure. SEITEN is superior. But that was off-set by "Live Geass." So "technically" speaking, it was a tie in the end. Both mechas were unable to fight any long, and both were pretty much shattered. It is fitting really. Suzaku had an overwhelming win at the end of S1. Kallen had an overwhelming win in 18 of R2 and the rest were all ties.

On the other hand, Suzaku needed to "die" there to everyone's knowledge, so strictly speaking he let Kallen win.

Originally Posted by Airi

I think he lost on purpose... in order to fake his death.

This is the conclusion I reached after it was revealed that Suzaku's death was intentionally faked for the sake of Zero Requiem.

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

On the other hand, Suzaku needed to "die" there to everyone's knowledge, so strictly speaking he let Kallen win.

He needed to die in the public eye. Dying there specifically was not required. There's any number of ways to arrange his supposed death. He wanted to win and couldn't believe that she was keeping up.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

He needed to die in the public eye. Dying there specifically was not required. There's any number of ways to arrange his supposed death. He wanted to win and couldn't believe that she was keeping up.

He wanted to stop Kallen, not "win," which in a sense he did anyway if you consider what his goals actually were. And there really wasn't any other believable way the Knight of Zero Spinzaku of all people could have faked his death There's also the fact the show pretty much presented everything as KEIKAKU DOORI between Suzaku and Lelouch. There was no indication that the Albion getting blown up there was an unforeseen turn. Occam's razor, as so many here have cited as if part of a fad recently.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

He needed to die in the public eye. Dying there specifically was not required. There's any number of ways to arrange his supposed death. He wanted to win and couldn't believe that she was keeping up.

Yeah, I have to agree here with morbo. But it does help support everyones "Suzaku is a better pilot" thing though. XD

[morbosfist]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Yeah, I have to agree here with morbo. But it does help support everyones "Suzaku is a better pilot" thing though. XD

When he's using the Geass command at least. It did help him keep up with the supposedly superior machine. Poor Suzaku, Lloyd and Cecile gave better toys to your enemy for once.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by morbosfist

He needed to die in the public eye. Dying there specifically was not required. There's any number of ways to arrange his supposed death. He wanted to win and couldn't believe that she was keeping up.

No but it made things easier.

Though I wonder how many changes they had to make to the plan due to Schenziel's scheming.

I suspect that Schenziel WAS originally suppose to be the new britannian face but since Nunnally came onto the scene Lelouch decided to give that to her and have him as an advisor.

As for Suzaku, tactically it was a draw, strategicially it was a win as he stopped her from reaching Lelouch.

In the end they are both nearly equal in strength. Kallen had a better mech but Suzaku had Live Geass which pushed him to the limits so those differences cancelled each other out.

For Suzaku,

The guy's come down a long road. He wanted to die yet in the end could not so he accepted it and decided to join forces with his friend to make a better world.

His payment was just as brutal as Lelouch paid for his. Lelouch paid with his life, Suzaku paid it by giving himself up as an individual for the "greater good" and I feel sorry for him but there's no one better to do it than him and Lelouch knew that.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

No but it made things easier.

Though I wonder how many changes they had to make to the plan due to Schenziel's scheming.

I suspect that Schenziel WAS originally suppose to be the new britannian face but since Nunnally came onto the scene Lelouch decided to give that to her and have him as an advisor.

As for Suzaku, tactically it was a draw, strategicially it was a win as he stopped her from reaching Lelouch.

In the end they are both nearly equal in strength. Kallen had a better mech but Suzaku had Live Geass which pushed him to the limits so those differences cancelled each other out.

For Suzaku,

The guy's come down a long road. He wanted to die yet in the end could not so he accepted it and decided to join forces with his friend to make a better world.

His payment was just as brutal as Lelouch paid for his. Lelouch paid with his life, Suzaku paid it by giving himself up as an individual for the "greater good" and I feel sorry for him but there's no one better to do it than him and Lelouch knew that.

I can honestly say I didn't foresee things turning out the way they did, but it's very fitting. The man that valued self-preservation so much as to accept a demonic pact paid with his life, and the man that sought to die in atonement has to live on as a faceless symbol. But it also ended well for both of them, since the goal of creating a better world was achieved, and in a way this is the best possible atonement for Suzaku.

[Sports72Xtrm]

So Suzaku became Batman and Shniezel is his alfred?

[kaefer_zwei]

though he is still alive, Suzaku Kururugi the face is dead. his wish finally came true i guess. To die as punishment for his sins and at the same time to live. that could have been his true victory and not in some KMF battle.

[Discerptor]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

So Suzaku became Batman and Shniezel is his alfred?

Wow, I hadn't thought of that... Lelouch told Schneizel to obey Zero, after all.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

So Suzaku became Batman and Shniezel is his alfred?

Pretty much

Now all Suzaku needs to do is wait until someone better comes by that can serve as an actual face that the public can trust and not someone behind a mask all the time.

I mean IMO I do not see the purpose of having Zero there the whole time if Nunnally and Schenziel work things out (really, there wouldn't be anymore wars and Zero is just a symbol).

The time when the world doesn't need Zero means the world will finally be at peace and Suzaku can go off into the world just like Lelouch and CC have

that... Lelouch told Schneizel to obey Zero, after all.

WHich was why some of us were spectulating that Lelouch's original Zero Requiem intended to have Schenziel as the new emperor of Britannia.

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Originally Posted by Discerptor

I can honestly say I didn't foresee things turning out the way they did, but it's very fitting. The man that valued self-preservation so much as to accept a demonic pact paid with his life, and the man that sought to die in atonement has to live on as a faceless symbol. But it also ended well for both of them, since the goal of creating a better world was achieved, and in a way this is the best possible atonement for Suzaku.

I agree completely. I think it is a burden that he accepted as part of his fate and a way to recreate his original vision of improving the world... he's just doing it in a manner different from what he originally had intended. The Zero Requiem (which symbolically was not only a path of atonement, but also a changing of the guards of sorts) has been completed. Or has it only begun?

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

Though I wonder how many changes they had to make to the plan due to Schenziel's scheming.

I suspect that Schenziel WAS originally suppose to be the new britannian face but since Nunnally came onto the scene Lelouch decided to give that to her and have him as an advisor.

Not really. Schneizel never had any intention of taking over anything really. He pretty much makes that clear. Schneizel himself probably gave Nunnally that position himself after the Geass was placed on him since, you know, Schneizel still has his own personality... kinda... (Man I was hoping for SOME closure there...)

As for Suzaku, tactically it was a draw, strategicially it was a win as he stopped her from reaching Lelouch.

Yeah, you are right on point.

The guy's come down a long road. He wanted to die yet in the end could not so he accepted it and decided to join forces with his friend to make a better world.

His payment was just as brutal as Lelouch paid for his. Lelouch paid with his life, Suzaku paid it by giving himself up as an individual for the "greater good" and I feel sorry for him but there's no one better to do it than him and Lelouch knew that.

Indeed. I said last week, this was a happy ending for everyone but Lelouch, Suzaku, and C.C. and that appears to be the case... or maybe in some twisted way, it really isn't. Sure Lelouch died. Sure Suzaku had to give up his personality and is effectively dead himself. Sure C.C. never got her wish and is still doomed to live forever, but their sacrifices were not in vain and they technically got what they wanted in the end. A world changed for the better.

[kaefer_zwei]

Originally Posted by Sports72Xtrm

So Suzaku became Batman and Shniezel is his alfred?

that could highly be possible

[Shadow Kira01]

So, Kururugi Suzaku is dead, yet he lives as the new "Zero". Pretty unexpected! On the contrary, Suzaku is more fit to be Zero, since he is an ace fighter. I wonder if there will be a 3rd Season. Nah, I doubt it though.

[Dean_the_Young]

Has anyone else noticed that both Lelouch AND Suzaku were right in regards to their respective R1 philosophies of change from the outside versus toppling from the outside? At the end of the series, they've both had successes that justify them.

Lelouch, through armed opposition, united Japan and half of the world behind zero, conquered the hearts of the Chinese Federation, took control of Britannia, and then conquered the world so he could do as he wanted from the top.

Suzaku, following his belief that true change could only come from working and changing the system from the inside, slowly gained the respect and ear of the Britannian royal family and leading knights such as Guliford. From a position of subservience, the higher authorities above him accepted him as a legitimate proof of the Honorary Britanian system (Dalton, Guliford, Cornelia) made the SAZ (Euphie), took him into confidence (Charles and the Realm of C), and even Schneizel agreed to be a better leader than Charles should Suzaku launch a coup. And then, as Knight of Zero, Suzaku was witness to the abolishment of the Number system, the aristocracy, and the old guard he said from the start should be reformed out. Even now as Zero he plays the system for the sake of peace.

After 374 pages of Suzaku discussion, hundreds of them about the impossibility of his desire for reform from within, can it be admitted that, hypocritical at the time or not, Suzaku succeded? And so did Lelouch?