AnimeSuki Forums

Heron · 2007-08-30, 18:51

Note that the Japanese animation studios have a hand in this. Given that, and the fact that they are providing a VoD service right now, is totally coincidence, huh...

wao · 2007-08-30, 19:13

Yeah, now if the Japanese companies come down and lend their support to this then all the fancy Odex-bashing would have been... kinda useless. I dunno. Anyone who'll still go picket the Japanese companies might as well quit watching anime altogether

SeijiSensei: Thinker generally covered them all, though I'd like to add that I think we have a much wider selection of anime on TV compared to the States if you add in
a. Chinese channels (some of them are dubbed)
b. Animax Asia (A branch off the Japanese Animax, they have 24h anime programming that shows episodes in one go [i.e. one per day, rather than one per week] but has a decent selection IIRC - I'm still so jealous that they showed Princess Tutu and Emma)

There are some occasions where there are local releases of stuff here faster than they come in the US - correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Gundam Seed Destiny came here a lot faster and I"m pretty sure KimiNozo was here way before it was in the US. But generally speaking - especially for newer titles I think? - this does not appear to be the case. Another problem here is a humongous lack in marketing. There in the US you have cons, websites, notices on sites like ANN and AoD and whatever - here you won't know what the hell got released until you actually see it in a store. As about 5000 angry fans might have mentioned by now Odex's site didn't used to have any release info on it.

Now, of course, it is completely different...

EDIT: I just read some reviews of the first ep of Seto no Hanayome that's available on their new VOD service. (Great, they have Tokyo Majin, which I still haven't watched the 2nd half of since ages ago, and I wouldn't mind seeing it here since I certainly wouldn't want to buy the VCDs... hopefully they'll put up the rest of the episodes)
The video quality looks pretty good - good enough for me anyway, and since it seems like a decent job then I'm more than willing to support this!

...now to somehow beg my parents to at least let me have control over my bank account so I can use paypal, it's not like I'd spend a huge amount of money anyway. $2 per episode valid for 7 days - sounds like a decent enough deal for me, frankly speaking, if it's a show I'm not willing to buy DVDs of without previewing or something I won't buy the DVDs of anyway. So let's just pretend everything I'm watching now for example is available there at the same price. That's a total of four shows. 4 x $2 = $8 a week. Honestly, I don't even buy anything else - only a 90c Milo in school and I don't eat out or buy clothes or gadgets or anything, so why the heck can't I just spend it on something I actually like?!!?!</personal whining>

Thinker · 2007-08-30, 20:38

Japanese anime firms close ranks with Odex
http://www.todayonline.com/articles/208525.asp

More articles. Of interest is this.
"In other countries, noted TV Tokyo Corporation's manager Yukio Kawasaki, most culprits stop downloading illegally once they have received a complaint letter from the licensee. He said Japanese animation studios usually leave it to their local representatives to take action against copyright infringers.
.
Based on exchanges with anime fans here, Mr Sing said Odex "understands they will not stop downloading just because we sent them a warning letter". "

All exchanges Odex did with "anime fans" are most with their focus group--many of which, I gather, were supportive of the crackdown. Majority of the community here had no idea what was going on.

So, it's the local representatives that matters...

Anonymous_kimchi · 2007-08-30, 22:24

FROM - http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?t=1711684

source: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/200708...le-231650b.html

SINGAPORE: Anime distributor Odex has defended its action against illegal downloaders as a form of enforcement against piracy rather than for profit.

Rumour has it that the company earned some S$15 million by taking action against illegal downloads.

Computer users, most of them teens, have been pilfering anime titles from the Web.

In fact, one report even ranked Singapore number one in the world, when it comes to illegal anime downloads per capita.

Odex has uncovered close to 500,000 cases of illegal downloading so far.

To further prove its point, Odex has roped in about 30 Japanese copyright holders who have said they will support Odex in its legal move.

That move saw Odex going to court to force SingNet and StarHub to release the names of its subscribers who have illegally downloaded its cartoons.

The result - a backlash against Odex.

Some people have accused the company of sending 1,000 warning letters, each supposedly called for the identified subscriber to pay between S$3,000 and S$5,000 in fines.

But at a news conference on Thursday, Odex said that there was no fine involved. It said 300 letters were sent out.

About a third of the recipients settled with Odex for an undisclosed sum. The rest are being mediated.

The company claimed that any excess money from the move, after deducting costs, will be donated to a charitable cause.

Odex added that no one was forced to pay beyond his/her means.

"This exercise was never meant to be just an enforcement. It's not a profiteering mission to get as much money from everybody. It was conceptualized with a very big picture (in mind).

"Illegal downloaders can download animes for all they want... five years, ten years, there will be nothing left to download. This is the fear that most strikes us. We want to address that situation," said Stephen Sing, director of Odex Pte Ltd.

That's why Odex still plans to continue what it calls its enforcement process. Its target - an 80 or 90 percent reduction in illegal downloads.

That seems like quite a stretch, since the company has seen only a 17% drop in illegal downloads this month.

More importantly, Odex may not have the right to pursue its so-called enforcement after all.

Despite the company's success against SingTel and StarHub, a judge has ruled that Pacific Internet does not have to give up the names of its subscribers who have been accused of illegally downloading anime.

This is because the court found that Odex is just a sub-licensee and not the copyright owner or exclusive licensee for most of the anime titles sold in Singapore.

Odex says it will launch an appeal to reverse the latest court ruling. - CNA/ir

What do you think the future holds for funsubs around the world if odex wins this war ?

JayF · 2007-08-30, 23:46

Allow me to bring a little hope to everyone here.

Firstly, Odex's legal case is the same as before. It's not about the legitimacy of downloading and the quality of their work. That's a forgeone conclusion, as in the former is illegal and the latter is really bad.

What matters here is that whether a sub=distributor has the right to act as a proxy for the JP companies and to claim infringment damages from it. THAT is the whole legal tussle here.

What the JP companies can show is that they back ODEX on this and that they have given permission for them to sue. However, according to the Copyright Act, only copyright holders AND EXClusive licensee have the right to compensation and to start legal proccedings for infringments.

Here's another thing to consider, as a sub licencee, ODEX is not entitiled to any sort of benefit from any legal proceddings in this case. And should they wish to sue on behalf of the Japanese companies, they must first do the following.

1)Apply from leave from the court to act as legal rep for the companies. By starting an appeal, Odex has stopped this option. Apparently, they wish to follow their old argument.

2)Not in anyway benefit from any legal payout gotten in this case from any convicted infringers. You see, under the copyright act they aren't supposed to get any. The letter of authorisation and other legal documents cannot grant them rights they are not entitled to under the act.

3)Odex has in their letters threatened to imprisonment. That is unethical and possibly misrepresentaion since as a private entity they cannot do so. Know this, Odex's rights to the anime they licence other than Gundam Seed in Singapore only applies to dsitribution and sale in Singapore. They have no right to sue for copy infringement if you are not distributing it.

4)Lastly, the Copyright Act trumps any letter the JP coys can give unless it's an exclusive license and even then it's not retroactive. Sub licensee and distributor under the Act cannot sue for infringement and the plantiff here is still listed as Odex Private Limited. All the letters they get mean for nothing if someone who has no business being there is listed as a plantiff. If Odex winning means that they get damages for infringment, then THEY CANNOT SUE because the court isn't supposed to give someone something he's not entitled to under the law. Also note that in a High Court Appeal, THEY CANT CHANGE THE PLANTIFF. The Japanese will have to file another suit, listing themselves as the plantiffs in order to do so. And Odex cannot be party to the lawsuit, being someone who isn't entitled to any damges in the first place.

5)Should the court allow Odex's appeal to go through, this raises the question of what then is the difference between an exclusive licensee and sub. Because now they can sue to something that violates exclusitivity, not distribution and this will ultimately diminish the value of an excluisive licensee, making it unfair to other anime distributors in the local market. Where the line stop and which comes first? The legal limts of a sub license or the limits to how much that can be overcome with a letter to represent? Besides, if they are representing the other companies, why is it that Odex is listed as the plantiff and not Gonzo or Toei? Why aren't damages going to them?

So take heart all those who got the letter. Odex due to their status as a sub distributor is not entitled to legal damages under the Copyright Act and the letters of Authorisation doesn't overcome the limits of Odex's rights under the Act. Only the JP companies themselves and exclusive licencees can sue you. And as long as Odex is listed as a plantiff, the court if ruling according to precedent and the law will have one verdict.

Case Dismissed.

P.S Also note that if the Japanese companies are not listed as companies in Singapore, they also cannot sue you. You have to be registered in the relevant jurisdiction to get the relevant rights. Of course, that would be easier than trying to rewrite the Copyright Act via case law, as Odex is trying now.

Heron · 2007-08-31, 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayF

Allow me to bring a little hope to everyone here.

Firstly, Odex's legal case is the same as before. It's not about the legitimacy of downloading and the quality of their work. That's a forgeone conclusion, as in the former is illegal and the latter is really bad.

What matters here is that whether a sub=distributor has the right to act as a proxy for the JP companies and to claim infringment damages from it. THAT is the whole legal tussle here.

What the JP companies can show is that they back ODEX on this and that they have given permission for them to sue. However, according to the Copyright Act, only copyright holders AND EXClusive licensee have the right to compensation and to start legal proccedings for infringments.

Here's another thing to consider, as a sub licencee, ODEX is not entitiled to any sort of benefit from any legal proceddings in this case. And should they wish to sue on behalf of the Japanese companies, they must first do the following.

1)Apply from leave from the court to act as legal rep for the companies. By starting an appeal, Odex has stopped this option. Apparently, they wish to follow their old argument.

2)Not in anyway benefit from any legal payout gotten in this case from any convicted infringers. You see, under the copyright act they aren't supposed to get any. The letter of authorisation and other legal documents cannot grant them rights they are not entitled to under the act.

3)Odex has in their letters threatened to imprisonment. That is unethical and possibly misrepresentaion since as a private entity they cannot do so. Know this, Odex's rights to the anime they licence other than Gundam Seed in Singapore only applies to dsitribution and sale in Singapore. They have no right to sue for copy infringement if you are not distributing it.

4)Lastly, the Copyright Act trumps any letter the JP coys can give unless it's an exclusive license and even then it's not retroactive. Sub licensee and distributor under the Act cannot sue for infringement and the plantiff here is still listed as Odex Private Limited. All the letters they get mean for nothing if someone who has no business being there is listed as a plantiff. If Odex winning means that they get damages for infringment, then THEY CANNOT SUE because the court isn't supposed to give someone something he's not entitled to under the law. Also note that in a High Court Appeal, THEY CANT CHANGE THE PLANTIFF. The Japanese will have to file another suit, listing themselves as the plantiffs in order to do so. And Odex cannot be party to the lawsuit, being someone who isn't entitled to any damges in the first place.

5)Should the court allow Odex's appeal to go through, this raises the question of what then is the difference between an exclusive licensee and sub. Because now they can sue to something that violates exclusitivity, not distribution and this will ultimately diminish the value of an excluisive licensee, making it unfair to other anime distributors in the local market. Where the line stop and which comes first? The legal limts of a sub license or the limits to how much that can be overcome with a letter to represent? Besides, if they are representing the other companies, why is it that Odex is listed as the plantiff and not Gonzo or Toei? Why aren't damages going to them?

So take heart all those who got the letter. Odex due to their status as a sub distributor is not entitled to legal damages under the Copyright Act and the letters of Authorisation doesn't overcome the limits of Odex's rights under the Act. Only the JP companies themselves and exclusive licencees can sue you. And as long as Odex is listed as a plantiff, the court if ruling according to precedent and the law will have one verdict.

Case Dismissed.

P.S Also note that if the Japanese companies are not listed as companies in Singapore, they also cannot sue you. You have to be registered in the relevant jurisdiction to get the relevant rights. Of course, that would be easier than trying to rewrite the Copyright Act via case law, as Odex is trying now.

Excellent research...yet again for the 105 who have settled...I feel for them.

But what I (and many) really worry for is the bigger issue, the problem of a company NOT giving us what we want. And the fact that fansubs are really being targeted as illegal groups when it was them who brought anime into the mainstream audience.

To quote Mr Peter Go, 'it's very sad'.

JayF · 2007-08-31, 09:46

One more thing which maybe good news~ Perhaps you have heard of how Peter Go flapped his mouth on Thursday's press conference on how much they paid Singnet over each IP address. Apparently this has affected sales at the Comex event when Singnet's staff went home early. No one was buying their stuff. Guess they didnt like being sold for $150

Also, you might be interested that all the relevant govt agencies are looking closely at this case as it has now become a landmark case as to how far a letter of authorisation can go and if the previous rulings on a sub licensee not having rights to sue for infringement will finally become case law. Of course, the govt agencies are not going to interfere in this one, since they also want to clear up the confusion over this. That the Singapore Govt wants to protect the copyright is not in question. WHO exactly is entitled to WHAT rights is what they're worried about.

Needless to say, Odex can't afford to loose. They loose, Singnet is going to look very stupid and they might just decide to dig up something on Go and company to get some payback. Starhub which has delayed releasing the names of their suscribers after the DC ruling will likely file suit to get the previous order squashed meaning that Odex will have to pay even more on top of their legal fees and damages to Pacific Net. Not to mention the 200+ who are preparing to countersue once case law established they don't have right to send those letters in the first place.

You're feeling the heat? Guess what Odex isn't sitting pretty either. The fate of their firm (and their own financial status) is hanging in the balanance and they already riled up both the anime community AND Singnet especially after Peter Go let loose the $150 thing. They're just as desperate and legal precedent now isn't on their side.

If Singnet decides to get payback, Odex will crumble like a spoilt cookie. Their lawyers are nasty and when they're unleashed can take on just about anyone. A small company like Odex isn't going to survive.

cpxmay · 2007-09-01, 07:43

You know....I only get to know that Odex actually licensed some titles when they started suing. Talk about bad marketing. =p
I used to walk into video shops looking for anime titles and all i see are crappy VCDs and the usual DVDs like Naruto, Bleach etc.

Jazzrat · 2007-09-01, 10:36

A simple solution is to just download em in malaysia XD.
I feel sorry for you guys but that's just how it is in Singapore.

And Animax suck after you have been DLing anime, dual sound but no sub. And the animes are so slow that you are still 4 to 5 yr behind what the japanese are getting and typically the usual primetime shounen stuff.

wao · 2007-09-01, 21:19

Well, Animax is good if you want to watch older stuff you've never seen before (for example I want to watch Wolf's Rain). Instead of buying it straight off (what if you realise you hate the first 2 eps - then it's a complete waste, and if you want to import it it's not cheap either), or renting it (...which you can't do here anyway), or downloading it (which is illegal), you could watch it off Animax (so if you dislike it after watching the first few eps you can just drop it and it won't cost you that much since you're paying for Animax as a channel).

But for anyone who doesn't understand Japanese (which is most of us) having no subs is really a drawback if you have only the original Japanese or English dub to pick from. If I didn't understand what was going on in a show I'd much rather not watch it at all than have to watch dubs, generally speaking... well, I don't think that has anything to do with Odex.

In other news I am really surprised at how much coverage this thing is getting in the local newspapers. Today there was no less than three separate articles on the Odex saga in the newspapers... One a column written by Andy Ho questioning the whole thing, another talking about Stephen Sing and Peter Go, and another one in Life talking about the availability of anime in Singapore.

Jazzrat · 2007-09-03, 11:54

Well either way, i m sure someone would noticed this issue and look into the anime market in singapore though to be honest, i don't really think the otaku population in SE region have enough to justify a competent regional legal anime distribution.

How many people would buy legal anime when it's easily attainable through downloads? There might be some who would but i think most of the local fanbase are still teenagers and college students whose purchasing power are less than that the working folks.

At a certain level, i can sympathized Odex's intention.

TinyRedLeaf · 2007-09-03, 14:53

I was browsing through Kinokuniya, and to my happy surprise, I discovered this:

For a mere price of S$26.64, I get a good quality DVD with decent subs, bundled with an interview of Shinkai Makoto, She and Her Cat (Shinkai's first work, a 5min animated short), and a Director's Cut of Voices with original vocals (Shinkai's and his fiance's).

If I hadn't seen examples of Shinkai's work online, I would not have given this DVD a second thought, let alone purchase it. Good job, Blue Max, for showing how business ought to be done. It's really very simple. Give me a good quality product, and I will gladly buy. On the other hand, if you choose to bite the hand that feeds you, then be prepared to reap the commercial consequences.

JayF · 2007-09-05, 13:19

A letter which I've sent to the New Paper after reading an "article" by one of their journos bemoaning the PR disaster the whole saga has become. Whether they will publish it though is another matter.

Name and contact details omitted obvisously.

I'm writing in to comment on your article "Oh Odex" which was published on 5th September Wednesday.

Firstly I would like to congratulate your reporter on the apt description of Odex has being a cowboy riding into the sunset and was unexpectedly shot down. How appropriate for the fiasco the whole sorry saga it has become. Who would have imagined what was at first glance a routine anti piracy action against Japanese cartoons would evolve into a test case for copyright now that it's going to High Court?

First, a few things I simply have to point out for the sake of making sure the public at large gets the whole picture.

Online hate for Odex products isn't new despite what your reporter seems to believe. Derision of their videos have long been a running joke among the local anime community, which ceased to be funny when the letters started appearing and turned the company from a punchline to a hated symbol. At first, the vast consensus was that Odex was legally correct in doing what they're doing, even if they felt the punishment was too harsh on children.

When the Pacific Internet Vs Odex ruling broke and was later released to the public however, all bets were off. Now it seems that Odex didn't have the law on their side except for one title.

The law was on the side of the copyright owners and exclusive licensee for sure but Odex has admitted to the Court that they are not, which was duly noted by Judge Lau in his written ruling. Now it appears that Odex was claiming money that they were not legally entitled to in the first place, which upset people even more.

After this legal upset, Odex finally decided to hold a press conference to dispute the claims floating around the net about where the money is going. Of course in light of the ruling which cast doubt on their right to sue in the first place and news that a company owned by Odex directors was raided for peddling pirated hardware was uncovered raised questions why was Odex doing so only after their legal case wasn't as airtight as was once thought? Would they have been as forgiving if they had won against Pacific Internet?

At this point, the online community was in no mood to reconcile. Odex's promise not to backlog letters after Monday also ringed hollow in the ears of the anime community, which still hasn't forgotten or forgiven Stephen Sing for trying to deny the double six remark at first.

After all, what is to stop Odex from suddenly not remembering when they made this post if they win in High Court and send the letters out anyway? Legally speaking, they can always sue anyway. Barring a signed agreement, there is nothing holding Odex back if they want to go ahead.

Lastly, if Odex truly is not doing this for profit, why not bring in the Japanese to sue which the District Court has ruled has a case and insist on doing it itself?

If Odex isn't trying to rewrite legal convention via case law as it is now it would have saved people plenty of grief at watching the local anime scene become a legal drama as it drags on. Surely, the Japanese right holders will be glad to reimburse Odex for all their costs in protecting their interests.

If they're not however, perhaps Odex should consider another video genre to distribute where their partners appreciate them.

In old cowboy movies, the hero wore white hats and the bad guys wore black to show who is who.

As the farce drags on though, Odex's hero cowboy hat doesn't look as pristine white anymore.

Also, feel free to copy and post this in any forum where the Odex thing is being discussed.

FiRe_RoSe82 · 2007-09-15, 00:14

Sigh.. I wonder when all this will be over!

Thinker · 2007-09-16, 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by FiRe_RoSe82

Sigh.. I wonder when all this will be over!

According to Peter Go and Stephen Sing of Odex, not until they have reduced anime downloading in Singapore by at least 85%. If not, the crackdown will probably go on indefinitely.

JayF · 2007-09-17, 10:49

This whole thing will end when the High Court throws Odex out on their collective behinds onto the stairs.

Or they go bankrupt which ever comes first.

Just to remind you guys, this little "crackdown" is until the High Court rules otherwise, basically illegal.

Also in today's news, Odex tries a new tactic by getting the ISP to send online letters to alleged infringers. Considering the court had thrown out their case and evidence, I can't help but think they're doing this just to be cheeky.

Of course, other than Singnet I don't think any ISP will be willing to send any sort of warning to their suscribers after the recent fiasco.

....who knows, maybe even Singnet will tell to get lost until they have a court order.

Thinker · 2007-09-28, 09:49

Remember Odex, the Singapore anime distributor who cracked down on fansub downloads in Singapore? Looks like fans are now suspecting that the subs for their latest Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu may have been lifted off/altered from a.f.k. fansubs.

http://www.odex.com.sg/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0

Thinker · 2007-09-28, 10:07

Appears they're doing the same for Nanoha too.

http://akichigo.org/?p=1294

Deathkillz · 2007-09-28, 10:13

*Can't...stop...laughing...*

So now you have to pay to watch fansubs

(oh sweet sweet irony ^__^)

bayoab · 2007-09-28, 12:30

Odex usually outsources their translations to random people for the lowest bid contract they can find. These people have been known to rip off fansubs before and this is definitely not the first case of it. The current batch of Odex editors are either unaware or don't care. The higher-ups are aware of this happening before.

*When the person who I knew edited for Odex reported this to the higher-ups, he basically got a "we'll look into it".

2007-08-30, 19:13	Link #122
wao OK. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Fields of High Attus Age: 34	Yeah, now if the Japanese companies come down and lend their support to this then all the fancy Odex-bashing would have been... kinda useless. I dunno. Anyone who'll still go picket the Japanese companies might as well quit watching anime altogether SeijiSensei: Thinker generally covered them all, though I'd like to add that I think we have a much wider selection of anime on TV compared to the States if you add in a. Chinese channels (some of them are dubbed) b. Animax Asia (A branch off the Japanese Animax, they have 24h anime programming that shows episodes in one go [i.e. one per day, rather than one per week] but has a decent selection IIRC - I'm still so jealous that they showed Princess Tutu and Emma) There are some occasions where there are local releases of stuff here faster than they come in the US - correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Gundam Seed Destiny came here a lot faster and I"m pretty sure KimiNozo was here way before it was in the US. But generally speaking - especially for newer titles I think? - this does not appear to be the case. Another problem here is a humongous lack in marketing. There in the US you have cons, websites, notices on sites like ANN and AoD and whatever - here you won't know what the hell got released until you actually see it in a store. As about 5000 angry fans might have mentioned by now Odex's site didn't used to have any release info on it. Now, of course, it is completely different... EDIT: I just read some reviews of the first ep of Seto no Hanayome that's available on their new VOD service. (Great, they have Tokyo Majin, which I still haven't watched the 2nd half of since ages ago, and I wouldn't mind seeing it here since I certainly wouldn't want to buy the VCDs... hopefully they'll put up the rest of the episodes) The video quality looks pretty good - good enough for me anyway, and since it seems like a decent job then I'm more than willing to support this! ...now to somehow beg my parents to at least let me have control over my bank account so I can use paypal, it's not like I'd spend a huge amount of money anyway. $2 per episode valid for 7 days - sounds like a decent enough deal for me, frankly speaking, if it's a show I'm not willing to buy DVDs of without previewing or something I won't buy the DVDs of anyway. So let's just pretend everything I'm watching now for example is available there at the same price. That's a total of four shows. 4 x $2 = $8 a week. Honestly, I don't even buy anything else - only a 90c Milo in school and I don't eat out or buy clothes or gadgets or anything, so why the heck can't I just spend it on something I actually like?!!?!</personal whining> __________________ Thanks for the fish Last edited by wao; 2007-08-30 at 19:39.

2007-08-30, 22:24	Link #124
Anonymous_kimchi Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	FROM - http://forums.hardwarezone.com/showthread.php?t=1711684 source: http://sg.news.yahoo.com/cna/200708...le-231650b.html SINGAPORE: Anime distributor Odex has defended its action against illegal downloaders as a form of enforcement against piracy rather than for profit. Rumour has it that the company earned some S$15 million by taking action against illegal downloads. Computer users, most of them teens, have been pilfering anime titles from the Web. In fact, one report even ranked Singapore number one in the world, when it comes to illegal anime downloads per capita. Odex has uncovered close to 500,000 cases of illegal downloading so far. To further prove its point, Odex has roped in about 30 Japanese copyright holders who have said they will support Odex in its legal move. That move saw Odex going to court to force SingNet and StarHub to release the names of its subscribers who have illegally downloaded its cartoons. The result - a backlash against Odex. Some people have accused the company of sending 1,000 warning letters, each supposedly called for the identified subscriber to pay between S$3,000 and S$5,000 in fines. But at a news conference on Thursday, Odex said that there was no fine involved. It said 300 letters were sent out. About a third of the recipients settled with Odex for an undisclosed sum. The rest are being mediated. The company claimed that any excess money from the move, after deducting costs, will be donated to a charitable cause. Odex added that no one was forced to pay beyond his/her means. "This exercise was never meant to be just an enforcement. It's not a profiteering mission to get as much money from everybody. It was conceptualized with a very big picture (in mind). "Illegal downloaders can download animes for all they want... five years, ten years, there will be nothing left to download. This is the fear that most strikes us. We want to address that situation," said Stephen Sing, director of Odex Pte Ltd. That's why Odex still plans to continue what it calls its enforcement process. Its target - an 80 or 90 percent reduction in illegal downloads. That seems like quite a stretch, since the company has seen only a 17% drop in illegal downloads this month. More importantly, Odex may not have the right to pursue its so-called enforcement after all. Despite the company's success against SingTel and StarHub, a judge has ruled that Pacific Internet does not have to give up the names of its subscribers who have been accused of illegally downloading anime. This is because the court found that Odex is just a sub-licensee and not the copyright owner or exclusive licensee for most of the anime titles sold in Singapore. Odex says it will launch an appeal to reverse the latest court ruling. - CNA/ir What do you think the future holds for funsubs around the world if odex wins this war ? Last edited by xris; 2007-08-31 at 02:43.

2007-09-01, 07:43	Link #128
cpxmay Gensokyo Adventurer Join Date: Jan 2006	You know....I only get to know that Odex actually licensed some titles when they started suing. Talk about bad marketing. =p I used to walk into video shops looking for anime titles and all i see are crappy VCDs and the usual DVDs like Naruto, Bleach etc. __________________

2007-09-01, 10:36	Link #129
Jazzrat Bearly Legal Join Date: Jun 2004	A simple solution is to just download em in malaysia XD. I feel sorry for you guys but that's just how it is in Singapore. And Animax suck after you have been DLing anime, dual sound but no sub. And the animes are so slow that you are still 4 to 5 yr behind what the japanese are getting and typically the usual primetime shounen stuff. __________________

2007-09-01, 21:19	Link #130
wao OK. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Fields of High Attus Age: 34	Well, Animax is good if you want to watch older stuff you've never seen before (for example I want to watch Wolf's Rain). Instead of buying it straight off (what if you realise you hate the first 2 eps - then it's a complete waste, and if you want to import it it's not cheap either), or renting it (...which you can't do here anyway), or downloading it (which is illegal), you could watch it off Animax (so if you dislike it after watching the first few eps you can just drop it and it won't cost you that much since you're paying for Animax as a channel). But for anyone who doesn't understand Japanese (which is most of us) having no subs is really a drawback if you have only the original Japanese or English dub to pick from. If I didn't understand what was going on in a show I'd much rather not watch it at all than have to watch dubs, generally speaking... well, I don't think that has anything to do with Odex. In other news I am really surprised at how much coverage this thing is getting in the local newspapers. Today there was no less than three separate articles on the Odex saga in the newspapers... One a column written by Andy Ho questioning the whole thing, another talking about Stephen Sing and Peter Go, and another one in Life talking about the availability of anime in Singapore. __________________ Thanks for the fish

2007-08-30, 18:51	Link #121
Heron Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Note that the Japanese animation studios have a hand in this. Given that, and the fact that they are providing a VoD service right now, is totally coincidence, huh...

2007-08-30, 20:38	Link #123
Thinker Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Japanese anime firms close ranks with Odex http://www.todayonline.com/articles/208525.asp More articles. Of interest is this. "In other countries, noted TV Tokyo Corporation's manager Yukio Kawasaki, most culprits stop downloading illegally once they have received a complaint letter from the licensee. He said Japanese animation studios usually leave it to their local representatives to take action against copyright infringers. . Based on exchanges with anime fans here, Mr Sing said Odex "understands they will not stop downloading just because we sent them a warning letter". " All exchanges Odex did with "anime fans" are most with their focus group--many of which, I gather, were supportive of the crackdown. Majority of the community here had no idea what was going on. So, it's the local representatives that matters...

2007-08-30, 23:46	Link #125
JayF Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore	Allow me to bring a little hope to everyone here. Firstly, Odex's legal case is the same as before. It's not about the legitimacy of downloading and the quality of their work. That's a forgeone conclusion, as in the former is illegal and the latter is really bad. What matters here is that whether a sub=distributor has the right to act as a proxy for the JP companies and to claim infringment damages from it. THAT is the whole legal tussle here. What the JP companies can show is that they back ODEX on this and that they have given permission for them to sue. However, according to the Copyright Act, only copyright holders AND EXClusive licensee have the right to compensation and to start legal proccedings for infringments. Here's another thing to consider, as a sub licencee, ODEX is not entitiled to any sort of benefit from any legal proceddings in this case. And should they wish to sue on behalf of the Japanese companies, they must first do the following. 1)Apply from leave from the court to act as legal rep for the companies. By starting an appeal, Odex has stopped this option. Apparently, they wish to follow their old argument. 2)Not in anyway benefit from any legal payout gotten in this case from any convicted infringers. You see, under the copyright act they aren't supposed to get any. The letter of authorisation and other legal documents cannot grant them rights they are not entitled to under the act. 3)Odex has in their letters threatened to imprisonment. That is unethical and possibly misrepresentaion since as a private entity they cannot do so. Know this, Odex's rights to the anime they licence other than Gundam Seed in Singapore only applies to dsitribution and sale in Singapore. They have no right to sue for copy infringement if you are not distributing it. 4)Lastly, the Copyright Act trumps any letter the JP coys can give unless it's an exclusive license and even then it's not retroactive. Sub licensee and distributor under the Act cannot sue for infringement and the plantiff here is still listed as Odex Private Limited. All the letters they get mean for nothing if someone who has no business being there is listed as a plantiff. If Odex winning means that they get damages for infringment, then THEY CANNOT SUE because the court isn't supposed to give someone something he's not entitled to under the law. Also note that in a High Court Appeal, THEY CANT CHANGE THE PLANTIFF. The Japanese will have to file another suit, listing themselves as the plantiffs in order to do so. And Odex cannot be party to the lawsuit, being someone who isn't entitled to any damges in the first place. 5)Should the court allow Odex's appeal to go through, this raises the question of what then is the difference between an exclusive licensee and sub. Because now they can sue to something that violates exclusitivity, not distribution and this will ultimately diminish the value of an excluisive licensee, making it unfair to other anime distributors in the local market. Where the line stop and which comes first? The legal limts of a sub license or the limits to how much that can be overcome with a letter to represent? Besides, if they are representing the other companies, why is it that Odex is listed as the plantiff and not Gonzo or Toei? Why aren't damages going to them? So take heart all those who got the letter. Odex due to their status as a sub distributor is not entitled to legal damages under the Copyright Act and the letters of Authorisation doesn't overcome the limits of Odex's rights under the Act. Only the JP companies themselves and exclusive licencees can sue you. And as long as Odex is listed as a plantiff, the court if ruling according to precedent and the law will have one verdict. Case Dismissed. P.S Also note that if the Japanese companies are not listed as companies in Singapore, they also cannot sue you. You have to be registered in the relevant jurisdiction to get the relevant rights. Of course, that would be easier than trying to rewrite the Copyright Act via case law, as Odex is trying now.

2007-08-31, 09:46	Link #127
JayF Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore	One more thing which maybe good news~ Perhaps you have heard of how Peter Go flapped his mouth on Thursday's press conference on how much they paid Singnet over each IP address. Apparently this has affected sales at the Comex event when Singnet's staff went home early. No one was buying their stuff. Guess they didnt like being sold for $150 Also, you might be interested that all the relevant govt agencies are looking closely at this case as it has now become a landmark case as to how far a letter of authorisation can go and if the previous rulings on a sub licensee not having rights to sue for infringement will finally become case law. Of course, the govt agencies are not going to interfere in this one, since they also want to clear up the confusion over this. That the Singapore Govt wants to protect the copyright is not in question. WHO exactly is entitled to WHAT rights is what they're worried about. Needless to say, Odex can't afford to loose. They loose, Singnet is going to look very stupid and they might just decide to dig up something on Go and company to get some payback. Starhub which has delayed releasing the names of their suscribers after the DC ruling will likely file suit to get the previous order squashed meaning that Odex will have to pay even more on top of their legal fees and damages to Pacific Net. Not to mention the 200+ who are preparing to countersue once case law established they don't have right to send those letters in the first place. You're feeling the heat? Guess what Odex isn't sitting pretty either. The fate of their firm (and their own financial status) is hanging in the balanance and they already riled up both the anime community AND Singnet especially after Peter Go let loose the $150 thing. They're just as desperate and legal precedent now isn't on their side. If Singnet decides to get payback, Odex will crumble like a spoilt cookie. Their lawyers are nasty and when they're unleashed can take on just about anyone. A small company like Odex isn't going to survive.

2007-09-03, 11:54	Link #131
Jazzrat Bearly Legal Join Date: Jun 2004	Well either way, i m sure someone would noticed this issue and look into the anime market in singapore though to be honest, i don't really think the otaku population in SE region have enough to justify a competent regional legal anime distribution. How many people would buy legal anime when it's easily attainable through downloads? There might be some who would but i think most of the local fanbase are still teenagers and college students whose purchasing power are less than that the working folks. At a certain level, i can sympathized Odex's intention. __________________

2007-09-03, 14:53	Link #132
TinyRedLeaf Moving in circles Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 49	I was browsing through Kinokuniya, and to my happy surprise, I discovered this: For a mere price of S$26.64, I get a good quality DVD with decent subs, bundled with an interview of Shinkai Makoto, She and Her Cat (Shinkai's first work, a 5min animated short), and a Director's Cut of Voices with original vocals (Shinkai's and his fiance's). If I hadn't seen examples of Shinkai's work online, I would not have given this DVD a second thought, let alone purchase it. Good job, Blue Max, for showing how business ought to be done. It's really very simple. Give me a good quality product, and I will gladly buy. On the other hand, if you choose to bite the hand that feeds you, then be prepared to reap the commercial consequences.

2007-09-05, 13:19	Link #133
JayF Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore	A letter which I've sent to the New Paper after reading an "article" by one of their journos bemoaning the PR disaster the whole saga has become. Whether they will publish it though is another matter. Name and contact details omitted obvisously. I'm writing in to comment on your article "Oh Odex" which was published on 5th September Wednesday. Firstly I would like to congratulate your reporter on the apt description of Odex has being a cowboy riding into the sunset and was unexpectedly shot down. How appropriate for the fiasco the whole sorry saga it has become. Who would have imagined what was at first glance a routine anti piracy action against Japanese cartoons would evolve into a test case for copyright now that it's going to High Court? First, a few things I simply have to point out for the sake of making sure the public at large gets the whole picture. Online hate for Odex products isn't new despite what your reporter seems to believe. Derision of their videos have long been a running joke among the local anime community, which ceased to be funny when the letters started appearing and turned the company from a punchline to a hated symbol. At first, the vast consensus was that Odex was legally correct in doing what they're doing, even if they felt the punishment was too harsh on children. When the Pacific Internet Vs Odex ruling broke and was later released to the public however, all bets were off. Now it seems that Odex didn't have the law on their side except for one title. The law was on the side of the copyright owners and exclusive licensee for sure but Odex has admitted to the Court that they are not, which was duly noted by Judge Lau in his written ruling. Now it appears that Odex was claiming money that they were not legally entitled to in the first place, which upset people even more. After this legal upset, Odex finally decided to hold a press conference to dispute the claims floating around the net about where the money is going. Of course in light of the ruling which cast doubt on their right to sue in the first place and news that a company owned by Odex directors was raided for peddling pirated hardware was uncovered raised questions why was Odex doing so only after their legal case wasn't as airtight as was once thought? Would they have been as forgiving if they had won against Pacific Internet? At this point, the online community was in no mood to reconcile. Odex's promise not to backlog letters after Monday also ringed hollow in the ears of the anime community, which still hasn't forgotten or forgiven Stephen Sing for trying to deny the double six remark at first. After all, what is to stop Odex from suddenly not remembering when they made this post if they win in High Court and send the letters out anyway? Legally speaking, they can always sue anyway. Barring a signed agreement, there is nothing holding Odex back if they want to go ahead. Lastly, if Odex truly is not doing this for profit, why not bring in the Japanese to sue which the District Court has ruled has a case and insist on doing it itself? If Odex isn't trying to rewrite legal convention via case law as it is now it would have saved people plenty of grief at watching the local anime scene become a legal drama as it drags on. Surely, the Japanese right holders will be glad to reimburse Odex for all their costs in protecting their interests. If they're not however, perhaps Odex should consider another video genre to distribute where their partners appreciate them. In old cowboy movies, the hero wore white hats and the bad guys wore black to show who is who. As the farce drags on though, Odex's hero cowboy hat doesn't look as pristine white anymore. Also, feel free to copy and post this in any forum where the Odex thing is being discussed.

2007-09-15, 00:14	Link #134
FiRe_RoSe82 SaKuRa-HiMe Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: That tiny red dot in the World Map! Age: 42	Sigh.. I wonder when all this will be over!

2007-09-17, 10:49	Link #136
JayF Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Singapore	This whole thing will end when the High Court throws Odex out on their collective behinds onto the stairs. Or they go bankrupt which ever comes first. Just to remind you guys, this little "crackdown" is until the High Court rules otherwise, basically illegal. Also in today's news, Odex tries a new tactic by getting the ISP to send online letters to alleged infringers. Considering the court had thrown out their case and evidence, I can't help but think they're doing this just to be cheeky. Of course, other than Singnet I don't think any ISP will be willing to send any sort of warning to their suscribers after the recent fiasco. ....who knows, maybe even Singnet will tell to get lost until they have a court order.

2007-09-28, 09:49	Link #137
Thinker Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Is Odex plagerising fansubs? Remember Odex, the Singapore anime distributor who cracked down on fansub downloads in Singapore? Looks like fans are now suspecting that the subs for their latest Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuuutsu may have been lifted off/altered from a.f.k. fansubs. http://www.odex.com.sg/forums/viewto...er=asc&start=0

2007-09-28, 10:07	Link #138
Thinker Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2007	Appears they're doing the same for Nanoha too. http://akichigo.org/?p=1294

2007-09-28, 10:13	Link #139
Deathkillz ~ You're dead ^__^* ~ Graphic Designer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: uk, England Age: 34	Can't...stop...laughing... So now you have to pay to watch fansubs (oh sweet sweet irony ^__^) __________________ Siggy: hohohohoho~ \| AnimeHistory welcome to our blog ~ \| Summer2009 early review Under the radar series Summer2009: Kanamemo, GA Geijutsuka Art, NEEDLESS

2007-09-28, 12:30	Link #140
bayoab Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003	Odex usually outsources their translations to random people for the lowest bid contract they can find. These people have been known to rip off fansubs before and this is definitely not the first case of it. The current batch of Odex editors are either unaware or don't care. The higher-ups are aware of this happening before. *When the person who I knew edited for Odex reported this to the higher-ups, he basically got a "we'll look into it".