AnoHana - Episode 7 Discussion / Poll

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Syntron

Good episode, but i think the firework arc is a red herring. While the title may reference a firework explosion, im more inclined to belive it references the dried flowers we saw in episode 1 and the blossums we see... everywhere in the ED and OP. Menma wanted to keep something a secret before Jintan, that must be related to her true wish. Unless i got confused at some point, ep7 wasn't too clear about the firework incident beeing real or imagined.

I think it's possible that everything is effectively a red herring - the fireworks, the wish, Menma's existence itself. Maybe the series is just a bunch of unhappy kids, Menma mysteriously appears to one of them, they rediscover their friendship and love of life through that mystery. The end. I'm sure the general reaction to that would be amusingly ballistic, but I'd personally love it...

[broken270]

Spoiler:

The fireworks scene when they were kids really did it for me. I find it funny that when we were young, we tend to think that the adults have all the power and free time in the world. By the time we are of our age, we think that the children are the ones who feel as though they could do whatever they want. This is true even in real life. Much nostalgia is seen here. At the very least, the whole gang was there to discuss about the possibility of the wish being to fly a rocket. And it was all about to come true, too. Jinta started to work in multiple jobs, both with Anaru and Poppo respectively (so, that is how Poppo had so much money to travel all over the place, working in jobs like that). Jinta asking his father to ask a friend who knows how to make fireworks to help him out. And then, at the middle of it all, the dude who promised said no. Of course, Jinta and the gang were angry, but then they figure out that the person in charge of the fireworks festival was none other than Menma's mother. She thinks they are going a bit too far to grant her wish; therefore, she tells him not to create any fireworks for her. This is going to be a big obstacle for the gang if they want to try out if this wish is going to work.

What I am more concerned about it Yukiatsu, who seems to have some knowledge about what Menma's wish could truly be. Tsuruko seems to know it as well. I find it odd that Menme called everyone other than Jinta to visit her in the club place. Do Poppo and Anaru know of something like this? Had Yukiatsu or Tsuruko said something about it to the two of them, would they have had some recollection as to what the conversation was about that day eight years ago?

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I think it's possible that everything is effectively a red herring - the fireworks, the wish, Menma's existence itself. Maybe the series is just a bunch of unhappy kids, Menma mysteriously appears to one of them, they rediscover their friendship and love of life through that mystery. The end. I'm sure the general reaction to that would be amusingly ballistic, but I'd personally love it...

But what would happen to Menma in this scenario? The series is obviously focused on the characters more than on the wish, but it's still an important plot point. I guess they could just say Menma's wish was for everyone to be happy and have disappear then... it'd be corny but that could work. We know she always put others before herself after all.

[taichi-kun]

sorry, but how many years have passed since menma's death ??

Nice episode, I love anaru-jinta moments! and yukitrap-tsuruko!

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Kanon

But what would happen to Menma in this scenario? The series is obviously focused on the characters more than on the wish, but it's still an important plot point. I guess they could just say Menma's wish was for everyone to be happy and have disappear then... it'd be corny but that could work. We know she always put others before herself after all.

That's a fair question. I still say you could start the series with a mystery and end it with a mystery - I don't think you need to explain just what Menma is and why she was there, but she does need an "ending" just like everyone else. Perhaps it's as simple as her seeing Jinta happy - maybe even with Anaru - and realizing it's time to move on. I suspect they'd come up with something more poetical than that, but who knows what that might be.

I will say this. If you look at Mari Okada's series - the ones where she seems to really be in control of the writing process - I think she tends to favor understated, thoughtful endings over grandiose, theatrical ones.

[miketyson]

guuchan: thanks again. I don't think it's likely that Menma's mom is aware of Menma's ghost right now, but she's been shown to be the only character who'd try to interpret events as having been caused by Menma's ghost (cf ep 1). So I can see the thought of "is Menma somehow communicating with Jinta (and/or his friends)?" having crossed her mind at some point during or after the visit in ep6. So it's not "she knows Menma's ghost is here" but more "the possibility has occurred to her".

What had been confusing me had been how she'd drawn the connection between the fireworks and the kids doing stuff for Menma, but I'd failed to think through the implications of handing over the diary. Even if Menma's mom had never read the diary, the fact she gave it to the kids and a week later finds out about the fireworks should be enough to piece it together.

Q: what do you make of Menma directly telling Jinta she has a wish for him right at the start of ep 1?

In terms of red herrings: I'm voting the fireworks to be half a red herring. It won't be Menma's wish, but will probably carry on to the end of the show. I say this not based on any in-show clues but b/c fireworks would be a useful prop to have for staging some tearjerker scenes in the finale.

[creb]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I think it's possible that everything is effectively a red herring - the fireworks, the wish, Menma's existence itself. Maybe the series is just a bunch of unhappy kids, Menma mysteriously appears to one of them, they rediscover their friendship and love of life through that mystery. The end. I'm sure the general reaction to that would be amusingly ballistic, but I'd personally love it...

I'm not sure why they'd be ballistic about that, since that's what makes the most sense.

Reading the ever convoluted and whacked out theories of what seems like a fairly simple story about revitalizing lapsed friendships just makes me giggle like a little girl every week.

Maybe everyone is still on the crazy theory high from last season's Madoka or something.

[Deconstructor]

Another excellent episode from the already legendary Anohana.

My favorite part is the ending - Menma's mother, a side character I thought would disappear into relative obscurity, turns out to be the largest obstacle in the Super Peace Busters' quest to fulfill Menma's wish. "How foolish," she states at Menma's memorial shrine. Only one thing is definite: A confrontation between Jinta and Menma's mother.

The scene where Menma turns on the light so Jinta can see the road ahead is wonderful. As a metaphor, it's both heartwarming and meaningful. Easily one of the best scenes I've seen this entire anime season.

Rockets and fireworks also serve as a great symbol of childhood dreams. They're hard to make, and good ones are expensive as well. But when you get that collage of paper and plastic flying in the air... there's no feeling more uplifting (literally) in this world. When the firework explodes, it's a marvelous sight.

And then, it's gone. Over. The rocket disappears from sight; the fireworks flicker back into the darkness of the night sky. You're left with a feeling of emptiness as the festival ends and you return to cruel, harsh reality. Your hard work, day after day, vanishes in air. And all you can do is go back to work for the next 350 days, waiting for the next festival to come.

Then you get older. The brief explosions of joy and happiness no longer have any effect. In fact, it just makes you sad. At your age, you've lost some people close to you; whether it be your best friend or a family member. You realize these people are like fireworks, and they don't last forever.

I'm sure most people have a more pleasant interpretation of fireworks, but I'm trying to take the role of Menma's mother and understand why she would intentionally impede Jinta's quest to fulfill Menma's last wish.

Okay, so we know Poppo's not some rich vagrant in disguise. Unless his personality is according to his plan... fool Jinta and company into making fools of themselves, then laugh at them all for being failures at life! No, I doubt it.

Has Jinta ever considered exploiting Menma for free muffin labor? 25 muffins a day would probably add enough money for the fireworks... and if they sell well enough, Jinta could create his own little muffin franchise. "Just the way my deceased mother and late best friend would make them." - the slogan. Heh... I'm kidding.

Episode 7 Rating: 9/10

[winkel]

Wow, totally did not expect that from Menma's mom. Wicked...

And I'm in the camp where Menma is a real ghost, and her wish is that everyone is able to get their lives together, be reunited again, and be able to move on from her, and that'll be the ending.

Though I was initially in the Yadomi's hallucinatin' camp, it doesn't seem so plausible now with how much Menma's been able to mess around in the real world.

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by miketyson

guuchan: thanks again. I don't think it's likely that Menma's mom is aware of Menma's ghost right now, but she's been shown to be the only character who'd try to interpret events as having been caused by Menma's ghost (cf ep 1). So I can see the thought of "is Menma somehow communicating with Jinta (and/or his friends)?" having crossed her mind at some point during or after the visit in ep6. So it's not "she knows Menma's ghost is here" but more "the possibility has occurred to her".

You're welcome, even though it seems the late posters above didn't see my explanation and gathering from the posts here, none of the subs out there gives the right message. They all make Menma's mom looks like some freak show. That's how destructive one mistranslated sentence can be. Anyway, I agree with you on the mentality of Menma's mom.

To those who think the barrier that Jinta and others will be facing is Menma's mom other than the reason stated above: the conversation in the episode didn't imply if it's Menma's dad or mom that the firework guy was referring to, but as mentioned by someone previously, the preview hinted at Menma's dad.

Originally Posted by taichi-kun

sorry, but how many years have passed since menma's death ??

10 years, hence the ED song title.

[karice67]

Originally Posted by guuchan

10 years, hence the ED song title.

Actually, the "10 years after" refers to the fact it's a cover of a song originally released in 2001. Also, go back to ep. 2, where Jintan mentions that the Nokemon Gold came out 5 years previously - seems to indicate it's been around 5 years.

Finally, it seems like they're in the first year of high school atm (15-16 years old) - 10 years ago, they'd have been 5...and even in Japan, parents wouldn't let their 5 year olds hang out in the relatively abandoned area where the secret base is, methinks.

Agree with you on Menma's Mum being rather benign though, and the Dad being the town hall officer the fireworks guy was talking about. I'm watching this without subs, so I've been wondering why everyone was so negative about Menma's mother...

[guuchan]

Originally Posted by karice67

Actually, the "10 years after" refers to the fact it's a cover of a song originally released in 2001. Also, go back to ep. 2, where Jintan mentions that the Nokemon Gold came out 5 years previously - seems to indicate it's been around 5 years.

Finally, it seems like they're in the first year of high school atm (15-16 years old) - 10 years ago, they'd have been 5...and even in Japan, parents wouldn't let their 5 year olds hang out in the relatively abandoned area where the secret base is, methinks.

You're right, I mixed it up, 'cause I somehow got the idea from something Jinta said in one of the episodes (unfortunately I don't have the luxury time to dig through the episodes to find it) that a considerable number of years had passed - hope it's not my memory messing with me.

[TakezoMusashi]

Wasn't Menma alive when she first mentioned a wish to Jinta?(when they were kids)
If so then why is everyone saying her wish is probably about getting over her death.
She couldn't have known she would die.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

I think it's possible that everything is effectively a red herring - the fireworks, the wish, Menma's existence itself. Maybe the series is just a bunch of unhappy kids, Menma mysteriously appears to one of them, they rediscover their friendship and love of life through that mystery. The end. I'm sure the general reaction to that would be amusingly ballistic, but I'd personally love it...

Speaking personally, I don't have a problem with a simple story. I don't have a problem with a story that's simply about friendship and love of life in a general sense. After all, I largely enjoyed K-On!!, and that's basically what that anime was about.

But then, if that's the simple story that the writer wants to tell, then I think that it's bad form to throw out persistent red herrings that naturally cause viewers to expect more than that.

The premise and plot of a piece of fiction, any piece of fiction, will tend to create a certain expectation level in the minds of readers or viewers.

What I mean by that, is that if you have an ever-present plot point of, say, "Who killed Mr. Jones?", then readers are naturally going to expect to have that question answered by the end, and for the answer to be something understandable and concrete.

In this anime, the plot point of "What is Menma's wish?" has become almost as ever-present as a "Who killed Mr. Jones?" sort of question is in a murder mystery novel.

So viewers are naturally going to expect an understandable and concrete answer to this almost ever-present plot point and question. Otherwise, many viewers will be disappointed and/or underwhelmed, and it won't be their own fault.

No viewer chose to foist the "What is Menma's wish?" plot point unto Okada, and ask her to come up with a good answer to it. She herself chose to make that an almost ever-present plot point, and that's probably not something a writer should do unless they have a good resolution in store for a plot-driving mystery of their own creation and promotion.

So yes, I expect a good, concrete answer to "What is Menma's wish?". Okada has given every reason for viewers to expect a good, concrete answer to that question. Now, I don't expect the wish to be something beyond what a young girl could believably conceive of, so I'm fully prepared for it to be "down to Earth", so to speak. But a plot point of this frequency and significance should not be just hand-waved away into the ether. It calls for and deserves a good, concrete answer.

Now, I'm confident that Okada will deliver one. She is a very good writer, after all.

But if she doesn't, and some viewer disappointment arises from that, it won't be the fault of viewers for expecting something that they have been given every reason to expect.

[Guardian Enzo]

I think a lot of the frenzy over "What is Menma's wish?" and indeed, "What is Menma?" is projection. They've been much more of a topic here than they have in the series itself.

That said, it's true that they certainly have been a topic in the canon material. So I expect, as you say, that Mari-san will give some sort of closure to those questions in the end - the show won't simply roll credits while pretending those questions don't exist. I simply think they won't be the focus of the final episode - merely a step along the way, with the characters realizing that there were other things that were more important. I don't think she owes us a scientific white paper on the nature of Menma, and I think it's debatable whether she owes us a specific answer on the wish. I could understand why someone would be nettled if we don't get one, but it won't matter all that much to me.

Sometimes, you have to accept that the question is more important than the answer, and the journey more important than the destination. Thus it may end up being with Menma's nature - and that would be perfectly fine with me.

[DragoonKain3]

Odd, I was under the impression that 6 years has passed since Menma's death. I was pretty sure it was mentioned somewhere in the series, but I can't remember exactly where.

And wow, the person trying to stop the gang from making the fireworks is in the Honma household? Interesting. Who's the final boss? lols


In any case, YukiaTsuruko so awesome this episode. I dunno, but the rarity of shipping clues for them makes every bit more enjoyable than the numerous, blatant JintAnaru we're getting.

I particularly liked Tsuruko's 'all or nothing' attitude... "I don't want to go out for tea as friends, but on a full fledged date as couple" is basically what she's trying to say. Though to be fair, I find it more sweet on Yukiatsu's part in taking things slowly (if he is indeed meaning it that way), as it's just more fun to watch than just blatantly asking her out like he did with Anaru (though I think Tsuruko would rather have it that way). And seeing Tsuruko working so hard just to keep up with Yukiatsu in grades (and presumably she has done it before so they can go to the same high school they go to now)... d'aww.

[foxnaught]

Originally Posted by Pellissier

Menma's mother had already referred to her daugther as "onee-chan", if you check episode 1. When Menma visits her house and the glass falls, you hear the father scolding his son, but at the same time Menma's mother says "nee-chan?" as to imply: "did you just drop that glass, Menma?"

When I first saw her I thought, "Ah man, she looks a little mental", but I completed missed the onee-chan bit. The woman is getting creepy though

However, I'm glad I'm sticking with this series. At first I felt this series was going to be rather generic, however I'm happy to see how the characters are developing, especially Yadomi, although my favourite character interactions has to be Matsuyuki and Tsurumi.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It would be funny - cheesy, perhaps, but really funny - if the climax to this all is going through with a several years old plan for a surprise birthday party for Jinta and everything coincides with his actual birthday in the present.

I'll probably punch my monitor in rage at the cheesiness.

[TakezoMusashi]

^And I would laugh before going on a killing spree.
The cheeseness being to much for me to handle.

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Kanon

But what would happen to Menma in this scenario? The series is obviously focused on the characters more than on the wish, but it's still an important plot point. I guess they could just say Menma's wish was for everyone to be happy and have disappear then... it'd be corny but that could work. We know she always put others before herself after all.

When the series started I kind of thought Menma's wish was going to be something like that. Everyone being scattered and divided, with her wish being at the center of things. Maybe everyone pulling together for this or some other effort would be enough for her to move on and have the series end.

[Leo_Otaku]

Just started watching this show a week ago. I love it XD. Even funnier how it reminds me of KEY works and them having a Busters in their group name lolz

I wonder what is up with the mother >.> I too enjoyed the scene where they all look at their plans they made when they were kids. So amusing!