Survival In A BETA-infested World

[NorthernFallout]

Hadn't thought of that myself. They do tend to appear in stuff like this. Though, there might be a simple reason for that:

They've all been nom-nommed. And those who haven't changed their minds...

[Azrulnin]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

I'll copy-paste something I originally put up in the Fanfiction thread:


I'm actually surprised that there's no mention of crazies believing in the BETA to be the Eleder Gods of the universe, going around preaching that Humans are meant to be God's food, and likewise engage in cannibalism to be 'closer to God'...

Yay!..... A BETA cult worshipper is on the lose....

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

I'll copy-paste something I originally put up in the Fanfiction thread:


I'm actually surprised that there's no mention of crazies believing in the BETA to be the Eleder Gods of the universe, going around preaching that Humans are meant to be God's food, and likewise engage in cannibalism to be 'closer to God'...

Actually, sadly there is...

Spoiler for The Day After:

There will always be people who believe that BETAs are God's creation, and that they are God's messengers. God damned Christian Fundamentalists...

On an side note, I thought the theory behind your fic was how to get BETA to recognize humans, with the hypothetical example of what chickens have to do to get humans to recognize them. Not sure how cannibalism fits in, since only the 'superior lifeform' would feed upon the lower. I think some ideology from animal farm might suit your fic more, since its based around animals acting in the way humans do, and can be extended in a way to how humans might emulate BETA behavior. Which is the crux of the Alternative plans, in particular IV.

Of course, since BETA consider themselves to not be sapient, it still boils down to presenting a being that can be recognized as a valid sapient being, which the Unit 00 almost succeed.

In terms of the chicken and man thing:" And Man asked the Chicken, so, prove that this is the same as intelligent beings. And Man took out a box of Colonel Sander's Famed Kentucky Fried Chicken..."

[wavehawk]

At the time of that writing, the characters in the fic don't know that the BETA aren't sapient (or that BETA don't recognize sapiency in carbon-based life). Now that I've given it some thought, the story I might write will pobably fit more in Unlimited than Alternative (combining some stuff I've just learned of, such as the Type-87 Exoskeleton that's mentioned but not actually used in the series).

As for the cannibalism angle, I just threw that in. :P Seriously, though. A lot of Serial Killers have this concept of themselves being superior to and above human morals. I was trying to steer the thinking in that direction (uncomfortably so). Does being superior to humanity necessarily mean having to give up what humanity you have?

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

At the time of that writing, the characters in the fic don't know that the BETA aren't sapient (or that BETA don't recognize sapiency in carbon-based life). Now that I've given it some thought, the story I might write will pobably fit more in Unlimited than Alternative (combining some stuff I've just learned of, such as the Type-87 Exoskeleton that's mentioned but not actually used in the series).

Yup, around 1950s I should think, since BETA contact was late 1950s. They are still finding out what the BETA is.
And when fighting 18 to 50 meters tall aliens, a 2m tall power armor isnt much use. Its used mainly against human sized foes.

As for the cannibalism angle, I just threw that in. :P Seriously, though. A lot of Serial Killers have this concept of themselves being superior to and above human morals. I was trying to steer the thinking in that direction (uncomfortably so). Does being superior to humanity necessarily mean having to give up what humanity you have?

I am really confused about the murder angle and how it fits into the alien invasion theory then. Don't really see the link, unless for survival, or cult like reasons.

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by grevierr

Yup, around 1950s I should think, since BETA contact was late 1950s. They are still finding out what the BETA is.
And when fighting 18 to 50 meters tall aliens, a 2m tall power armor isnt much use. Its used mainly against human sized foes.

Nukes are the best weapons to use against the BETA... Just don't know how to squeeze them inside a tank's shell or a better inside a pistol.

And another thing... we are in the edge of extinction and we still care about selling and buying weapons. Why won't we just help each other for FREE...

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by grevierr

a 2m tall power armor isnt much use. Its used mainly against human sized foes.

- Exactly. Also, as a self-contained survival suit for extreme conditions--I'm not usingthe Type 87 as-is, I'm thinking of what it may eventually be turned into, given scarcity of resources in Unlimited and the way the world's gone to hell.

I was really confused about the murder angle and how it fits into the alien invasion theory then.

- Essentially, some serial killers don't recognize their victims to be equal to them; eg either their victims are not human (in their line of reasoning) or they think of themselves as superior to humans. To a serial killer, his victims are not human/not worthy of respect, and they tend to do things such as dismemberment (Jack the Ripper) to cannibalism.

To simplify: a psychotic killer has a very alien view of other humans (his victims). Likewise, an alien would see killing humans and eating them as normal...and then be honestly surprised when other humans come and start fighting back.

It's kind of hard trying to express it, I might have to write the story after all, just to define it at length.

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

- Essentially, some serial killers don't recognize their victims to be equal to them; eg either their victims are not human (in their line of reasoning) or they think of themselves as superior to humans. To a serial killer, his victims are not human/not worthy of respect, and they tend to do things such as dismemberment (Jack the Ripper) to cannibalism.

To simplify: a psychotic killer has a very alien view of other humans (his victims). Likewise, an alien would see killing humans and eating them as normal...and then be honestly surprised when other humans come and start fighting back.

It's kind of hard trying to express it, I might have to write the story after all, just to define it at length.

Sorry, should have said confused about the cannibalism angle (boss was calling me to a presentation, too late to edit the previous post ).

You don't see BETA killing each other just to make a profit. Recycling dead ones, yes, not killing each other. In fact they go out of the way not to attack each other, as evidenced by Laser class not shooting through other BETA, despite this being taken advantage of by the humans.

In fact, the idea that humans constantly back stab each other would probably confuse the BETA, if they thought about human behavior at all.

Spoiler for POV of the BETA:

BETAs see humans as a source of Carbon resources, so have as much thoughts about them as humans do recycling old computer circuits. BETA do not even see themselves as sentinel by the way. See von neumann space exploration for my theory of the BETA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-re...ing_spacecraft

Back to the murder angle, I feel that its more that the murderer forces his view of humanity upon the victim, rather than not seeing the victim as human. In the case of Jacko, he would have seen prostitutes as a mother figure, and so tried to extract the pureness of the female anatomy in his viewpoint, the uterus, in a warped manner to regain the love of mother not.

For cannibalism, in general the people who do it individually see it as a form of expression of hate/love to others as in the case of criminals, while for those who do it in groups would tend to be having a cultist or mysterysium mentality, which in their minds gives benefits to doing the act, or that there is no wrong in doing so.
After all, the definition of civil human behaviour has always been defined by those living in whatever current civilization that they are in. Taboos are always defined by the society one is currently in.

Humans are selfish. Humans viewpoints have always been about humans.

Seeing the definition of alien: <Dissimilar, inconsistent, or opposed>, and <A creature from outer space> My viewpoint is that having an alien(different) viewpoint of something, does not mean that I will have the same viewpoint as an Alien... (English strikes again!)

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Nukes are the best weapons to use against the BETA... Just don't know how to squeeze them inside a tank's shell or a better inside a pistol.

And another thing... we are in the edge of extinction and we still care about selling and buying weapons. Why won't we just help each other for FREE...

Actually, since BETAs can ignore radiation, while humans cannot, in a war for land, Humans would lose out if they nuked everything. Essentially, this is what happened in ML Unlimited TDA.

And nothing is free... everything has attachments... even when US was passing out F-4s like Christmas turkeys to countries that were under invasion, they only passed it out to those they felt would benefit US the most (China got offered Nukes of course.)

Currency has not really been seen in the MLA world, since most areas are militarized zones, and as such provided for according to needs. Refugees and such are outside of the system, and so with no money and little support, they can only sell themselves, either as soldiers or worst. For soldiers to get the few luxuries available though (such as Misha) some sort of credit system should be in place even on the front lines (as shown in TE with all the bets going around). All countries who are in direct aggression with the BETA and/or those that have lost their homelands but still have their central government would have had to militarized the entire population (whats left of them) to fight back.

Behind safe zones however, normal life and financing should occur, with the war industry being government owned, and as such providing those in the country with jobs. At this point in ML, just about the only place like this would be the US and parts of Africa.

[kaizerknight01]

guess other than resource than materials such as alloys , parts, TSF and Food stuff the other important skill set other than piloting a TSF or in a military unit like engineering, scientists or researchers , or people working food processing or weapons manufacture hold great importance in MLU/A verse

[wavehawk]

Okay, just to put it out there: 21 Dec 2012---the day when the BETA land on earth for real?

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by wavehawk

Okay, just to put it out there: 21 Dec 2012---the day when the BETA land on earth for real?

Right Idea. Wrong Planet.

[Dragonkid11]

We still have 10 years before getting fucked

Still fucked either way if nobody except us believe in BETA

[grevierr]

Well, BETAers gonna Bate...

[Red_Zeal_Knight]

Well I think humans will better if Beta comes in 2012 then in the 70's in MLA universe
Mosts of the world is industrialed now so better chance of winning

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by Red_Zeal_Knight

Mosts of the world is industrialed now so better chance of winning

- Yeah, but we still have morons for politicians. You know, the kind of morons who'll spend more time arguing with other humans as opposed to fightign the same enemy...

[Dragonkid11]

MLverse has Ishithara in just about every single political position.

And they have a chances of winning...(With a bratty saviour)

So,we should be okay,except if the hive fall into China AGAIN(Look at China,do you think they give a fuck?They will attempt to economize the G-shit again and get fucked in their family tree's asses.)

[grevierr]

China has their shit on now, compared to 40 years ago. If it falls into North Korea now though...

Then again, after looking at news about the 5 years old boy in China today, people there would probably just stare at the Hive and watch while people get taken inside...

[wavehawk]

Just saw the official "Pacific Rim" trailer, and it has one line that dang well should fit in any Unlimited/Alternative fan's vocabulary:

"Today, we are CANCELLING the Apocalypse!!!"

[CJ_Walker]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Welcome to Alternative Earth. It's a world very much like our own, and yet different in many ways... most prominently, an infestation of the Beings of Extra-Terrestrial origin that are Adversaries of the human race.

To be a human in this world is to live day from day. It is a time of both great technological achievement and mindbreaking terror.

You're a resident of Alternative Earth. How are you going to survive as long as possible? You can't keep the reaper from calling... but you can try evade him as long as possible.

This thread serves as a location for discussion of just how one would go about surviving in Alternative Earth, as well as a frank assessment of life expectancy and how badly humanity is fucked. Due to the nature of this topic, this is regrettably a spoiler zone - it is very difficult to discuss this topic without making references to materials outside the animated adaptation of Total Eclipse. That said, let's continue to use spoiler tags - it's merely good practice, afterall.

Let the posters beware.

tl;dr, as grevierr put it: Welcome to Survivor: Beta. Outlive. Outkill. Outlast.

Why not just live underground, like in ttgl or the matrix's "ZION" build lots of guns and science-y weapons and shit, then kill the beta once they've made better weapons.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by CJ_Walker

Why not just live underground

- The BETA are miners. Doesn't that kind of tell you that's a bad idea?