Sword Art Online - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Nice PS Job.

Spoiler for NSFW:

lol that made me lol really hard

[Zeriand]

From the look of this boss, I suppose that the mastermind behind this was expecting that more Unique Skill users to show up. It's starting to get incredibly obvious that if you're not one of the chosen ones, you don't even stand a chance against like, any of the bosses at this point. I don't think even a 10 level advantage is good enough for any tanks to stand in front of that monster and fight properly.

Which probably comes right back to the theme: Sword Arts. The tanks can't really tank with just 'best defense equip, tonnes of HP and buffs' (which is actually bread and butter in MMORPG but putting that aside), and they will be forced to play smart. They'll have to radically change their tanking strats and take at most glancing blows from the boss. Attackers must have at least some level of evasive skills so they can get in, deal damage, and get out with little damage. Fights are going to a heck load more taxing and long because they could not longer DIVE THAT S*** WHILE WE KEEP EM BUSY. Bosses are starting to look like REAL BOSSES because THAT'S what a skeleton fish monster of that size and mass can do to a real body when it attacks at full strength. It'll crush them into smithereens.

I know some of you are complaining that the game is unfair, but I personally think that this is the fairest thing ever done in SAO. The bosses are not underpowered like those in MMORPG where they act stupidly, slowly, pitifully predictable and SOMETIMES deal 1 hit KO. No, when they mean to crush, they crush you like a monster would do to a puny human with some armor. They obliterate. man, this sure as hell is satisfying to watch; a true death game.

And considering that the players had 80 levels of free use of crystals and safe escape passage, I'll consider this handicap now quite appropriate.

[MasterVampire]

Good battle.

Heathcliff is pretty badass with that shield of his.

But how can this boss oneshot these high level front lines players?

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by MasterVampire

Heathcliff is pretty badass with that shield of his.

True... His team of Knights are really "TANKERS" damn!!! HeathCliff seemed to have taken the spotlight in the boss room..

[Raviel]

Originally Posted by Endless Soul

It's funny, after seeing this episode I was imagining if a boss of this power managed to get into a town. Massacre ensues.

It's unfortunate, but members of the Red Shirt Brigade were needed to show just how deadly this boss is. No idea how the main characters are going to defeat it, or who will survive. By the way, maybe I missed it, but why is the chef guy there, and not in his shop? Perhaps a sign that they're running out of strong players?

Also, I guess my (unspoken) theory regarding just how much time they're actually spending in the game is debunked by Asuna talking about how everyone acting strange, laying down in the streets as their bodies were being moved. I was sort of guessing, especially since we weren't shown anything (no people suddenly de-rezzing as their helmets were removed) that perhaps their time in the game was simulated, and they had, at most, spent only a real day or two in the game. Well that was answered.

Endless "Red Shirt" Soul

Are you talking about Agil/Egil? Kirito's merchant friend?

Well I guess it all boils down to him actually needing to go around and re-stock his shop.

When you look at the floor his shop is on and which floor is the current front line it would only make sense that he would need to go out to get some level appropriate items to stock his shop with so he can stay in business.

[grey_moon]

Great episode and hopefully answered a few questions about Kirito and Asuna's relationship.

Loved how they showed Asuna supporting Kirito as he did something anyone would do (IMHO), when he wanted Asuna to stay out of the fight. Also her answer was inspiring

Loving the end fight but what a horrid place for the epi to end!

[Quadratic]

Originally Posted by Metaneo

There was no "light jab" at you, I brought up "fairness" in my post, and I have no idea what you posted in the last episode thread, relentless was just responding to my post.

Well, he made the comment first in this thread (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...3&postcount=16), which is what I thought lead back to this discussion of fairness. What I wasn't completely aware of, was this discussion had been discussed endlessly in threads outside the episode threads (which I dare not to venture), resulting in old wounds being opened back up (which I don't think he intended in the first place).
(FYI, my post in the previous ep thread was tying Yui/Yui's heart to the absurd theme of fairness, which really highlights how easy it is to get off track if you intentionally or unintentionally focus on the wrong thing).


On a different note, ignoring the fairness issue, I find this episode to contain a nice transition between heaven and hell (not literally, and regardless whether this is what the writers intended or not, I still think it's nice).
The first part contains the happy, peaceful life (heaven, if you will).
The middle delves into their minds explaining their demons they battle/battled within, and why they need to join back the the frontlines (grounded back to earth).
The last part is them walking into hell.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Raviel

Are you talking about Agil/Egil? Kirito's merchant friend?

Well I guess it all boils down to him actually needing to go around and re-stock his shop.

When you look at the floor his shop is on and which floor is the current front line it would only make sense that he would need to go out to get some level appropriate items to stock his shop with so he can stay in business.

All the guys who are there are strong in their own right. I guess Egil is some kind of workaholic. Like Kirito when he was in the Cats, leveling after hours. And he was there for the Illfang fight, so he's a good gamer.

[Xaturas]

Egil came for the *every 25 floor hard boss special eq* bonus.

Though I'm kinda sad about future eps, thought it would last longer but whatever.

[FlameSparkZ]

Heathcliff's tankness is so insane. He's blocking Skull Reaper's attacks like they're nothing serious.
It's like his shield gives 99% damage reduction against Bosses

[Zeriand]

It's a unique skill after all. Remember that Kirito basically downed Gleam Eyes within minutes with his dual blades lol; now that's what I call OP.

[ronelm2000]

If ever, Kirito is like "The Greatest Sword" and Heathcliff is "The Greatest Shield".

At least, that's what I think. :3

[Endless Soul]

Originally Posted by Raviel

Are you talking about Agil/Egil? Kirito's merchant friend?

Well I guess it all boils down to him actually needing to go around and re-stock his shop.

When you look at the floor his shop is on and which floor is the current front line it would only make sense that he would need to go out to get some level appropriate items to stock his shop with so he can stay in business.

Yes, Egil. Thank you. (with this heat wave we're having, it's making it hard to sleep and think clearly)

[ahelo]

Episode 12 was just a fluke. A minor pimple to an otherwise decent series that's slowly getting better and better. I love how Asuna and Kirito's relationship went here and the whole doubting part in the middle is the kind of thing I've always wanted in SAO. The fishing part of the episode was a really nice way to expand SAO's world and probably the highlight of the episode for me.

The skeletal monster is definitely a cool way to end the episode and overall, if they keep producing episodes of this caliber, I'm really willing to forget the bumps we had to experience to get there.

[grey_moon]

I've been thinking about the "fairness" of Skullreaper, but if the boss is taken from the PoV of a non death game then would it be unfair?

So far the one shots seem to be from people panicking and not actually defending the attacks properly.

I think the main problem of trying to decide if the game in terms of bosses is fair or not, is was the room designed for normal play, or for "hard mode".

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I've been thinking about the "fairness" of Skullreaper, but if the boss is taken from the PoV of a non death game then would it be unfair?

So far the one shots seem to be from people panicking and not actually defending the attacks properly.

I think the main problem of trying to decide if the game in terms of bosses is fair or not, is was the room designed for normal play, or for "hard mode".

I know it's not our position to say that it was a "fair game" when your life is at stake, but yes... it was still in every sense "hard mode". One, the challenge was in the fact that (judging from their faces) that such a thing as "closing the door on them" has never ever happened before. ever. Two, the challenge in the fact that never ever... at least until now, have we ever seen OHKO moves in SAO? Three, the fact that this particular boss has never used "definite" sword skills or weapon skills. Even the 74th boss were consistently using the 1-H Sword skills we all love + some Hand-to-Hand Combat, I think. And four, the fact that it seems that each side/weapon, scythe has a different complicated algorithm to go with it. Oh boy....

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I've been thinking about the "fairness" of Skullreaper, but if the boss is taken from the PoV of a non death game then would it be unfair?

So far the one shots seem to be from people panicking and not actually defending the attacks properly.

I think the main problem of trying to decide if the game in terms of bosses is fair or not, is was the room designed for normal play, or for "hard mode".

Well it's hard to say at this point. The only people we've seen successfully block this things attack are Heathcliff (who seems hax anyways) and Kirito+Asuna. Alone neither would be able to take that attack without getting hurt pretty badly.

It might not at the very least be a very fun boss in a non-death game. Since an average party would probably be slaughtered quickly leaving you at a loss at how to proceed.

Can see though why someone like Yui would have been in the game normally. Even if it wasn't a death game you'd have some rough nights after having something like that chasing you down and taking you out in one shot.

[grey_moon]

Agil took a "graze" to his arm, so either the fodder in front of him absorbed the damage (does SAO work that way???), he was just out of killing range, or he has some crazy HP/def.

But it does show that getting hit by Skullreaper doesn't guarantee death.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I've been thinking about the "fairness" of Skullreaper, but if the boss is taken from the PoV of a non death game then would it be unfair?

No, I think it would be fine in that case. The only point that makes it unfair to me is the fact that there's no way to gain any intel about the boss at all. The team that opens the door has basically two choices: win, or everyone dies. And if everyone dies, then the next team that tries has to start from scratch not even knowing what the first team did to get themselves killed. All along until now, there's been some way to sort of "scope out" the boss, learn its attack patterns, and form a boss strategy (which Asuna was doing, as we may recall). But here, the only way is to bring in a large and diverse group of talented people, come up with a strategy on the fly, and hope enough people stay alive to beat the boss. If you fail, you've just lost that entire large group (including whoever was coming up with the strategy).

If this were a non-death game, it'd be totally fair, because you could just keep on trying until you get it right, so you could learn from your failures. But playing "Heroic Mode" without having any intel at all about the bosses (and no margin for error) is way too harsh, IMO.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

...
If this were a non-death game, it'd be totally fair, because you could just keep on trying until you get it right, so you could learn from your failures. But playing "Heroic Mode" without having any intel at all about the bosses (and no margin for error) is way too harsh, IMO.

What you say makes a lot of sense. I was just thinking in the sense did Kayaba actually design the game and boss content as a death game, or did someone else design it as a normal high level content boss where players can keep trying?

If it was the latter and Kayaba just flipped the death switch on without modifying the content to be suitable for the new penalty, then it is going to be most unfair. I say this because content designers have to come up with new and innovative ways to keep high lvl players interested and probably didn't have the real death scenario in mind (I hope)