Fate/ Series Q&A

[GDB]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

It couldn't be him extracting Avalon from his body because Avalon shouldn't be there anymore since he removed it and gave it to Saber.

Oh, thought that was the one you were talking about. Always forget he projects it again against Kotomine since it just kind of disappears after he escapes the miasma.

[orangejuicetang]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Who would win in a fight

Zero Lancer or Fate Lancer? Both are from irish mythology and both are lancer class. Both are incredibly agile and dangerous.

I mean in the formality of a fair and even fight to the death against them. OTOH it would be esier to tell me who would win based on their masters as well.

Bazette of course has fragarach, which basically translate as a 'I double F8cking dog dare you to use noble phantasm*

Way too many variables. Let me think. Nasu said that if they were fighting in Ireland, Fate (I'm just going to use Fate and Zero to distinguish) would have the advantage, but if they fought elsewhere, Zero would have the advantage due to better master support. But then again, Fate has that NP that kills based on luck and Zero has crappy luck, so I don't know. Are we including NPs or is this just a fight with pure skill to the death?

[Arbitres]

I can see the variables... I also mean no hold bars, the only true 'fight to the death' fight there is.

Noble phantasm, master support, so on and what else a amster and servant does.

From the sounds of it, I was right. Fate lancer would win because of his noble phantasm, but because Zero lancer has horrible luck he would need a miracle to dodge it.

If Zero lancer used his noble phantasm, then Bazette would use Fragarach, so Zero lancer pretty much loses this one.

Thanks... though the answer was relatively obvious.

[Polar_Lord]

I was under the impression that Fragarach required some kind of "Finishing Move" to be activated. Zero Lancer's NP's seem more to be passive in effect and don't have the same kind of one-use-powerful attack effect as Gae Bolg for example and so probably wouldn't trigger Fragarach.

So I'd reckon that Fragarach would be useless in a fight against Zero Lancer.

In terms of Master support, Bazett against Kayneth is hard to say. Since Bazett is a specialised mage hunter she may eventually find a way past Volumen Hydragyrum's "Ultimate Defence". In short, we probably don't have enough data to suport a judgment on this.

[orangejuicetang]

Fragarach only activates against the 'trump card'. So it can be hard to say. For example, Fragarch is useless against Fate Caster because none of her spells technically count as a 'trump card'. Also, it likely wouldn't activate against Gil's GoB because Ea is Gil's trump card.

[Cherry_Lover]

Fragarach requires the servant to use their 'trump card'. In the case of a servant with an NP, that means to use their most powerful NP. But, with a servant like Zero Lancer, whose NP is always active, it's not clear what it would mean. Apparently, though, using it on Berserker works (because God Hand counts as his 'trump card', and is always active), although it only kills him once. So, it might be that it will work on Zero Lancer if he uses the effects of his spears.

[xris]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Who would win in a fight

From the opening post.

Originally Posted by xris

the purpose of this thread is to ask questions that can actually be answered as facts from the anime or game.

As far as I can see your pist is basically a "versus" question which can only be based on personal opinion. Or in other words, further posts or replies on this will be deleted

[Polar_Lord]

Originally Posted by orangejuicetang

normal projection just copies the 'form' while Shirou's copies both the 'form' and 'what's inside'.

Can Shirou examine the internals of all NPs just by looking at them? I got the impression in UBW when he fought Gilgamesh that he could only copy the exterior form because he didn't have time to analyse them.


Also, when Shirou traces and copies Archer's copied NPs, would those NPs be decreased a further rank or would they be the same rank as Archer's?

[Polar_Lord]

Can Weapons-based Noble Phantasms be broken by other Noble Phantasms e.g. Excalibur snapping Rule Breaker in a head on clash?

[rastilin]

Can Weapons-based Noble Phantasms be broken by other Noble Phantasms e.g. Excalibur snapping Rule Breaker in a head on clash?

Yes

In Fate/Stay..

Spoiler for Fate/Stay:

Saber damages Assasin's weapon in a head on struggle. Also, in UBW Shirou destroys Gilgamesh's weapons by attacking them with their duplicates.

In Fate/Zero..

Spoiler for Fate/Zero:

Lancer shatters one of his spears by hitting it with the other.

[Polar_Lord]

I don't think Assassin's weapon counts since it isn't a Noble Phantasm and Zero Lancer snapped his lance with his brute strength.

But regardless, I forgot about Shirou destroying Gilgamesh's weapons so thanks for answering.

Just a question, how interconnected are the different concepts in each of the Nasuverse works?

[y0shi]

Just finished the series and I'm left in confusion

I watched Umineko/Higrashi so I guess its something similar, that a novel adaption has to leave soo much stuff out.

What was that stuff about caster/the teacher? What is the connection between sakura and rin? What was that whole ritual thing about?

I also didnt really get the king arthur part, what happened in sabers past?
When she returned in the end, was it about that she accepted what happened and that she probably would die there? And that that wouldnt mean that she failed? And she requested the sword to be sunk as a sign that it was over for her?

And what was the "villains" aim/story etc? I understood nothing but blabla? Why was gil cursed when Saber destroyed the grail the last time? Did the villain (forgot his name) make gil drink from the grail so he would stay?

And most important, why did saber go back? Didnt she decide in the episode where lancer died that she would acept her past and move on?

I also read something about a story where they meet saber again since shes sleeping somewhere?

Also if I want to read more, what should I get? Books, Visual Novels? How much more stuff is there? is there a Manga? And how are the novels? I tried the Higurashi novel but, although its good, its just too long for me and got boring. Are the FSN novels shorter?

Thanks =D

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by y0shi

What was that stuff about caster/the teacher?

Spoiler:

They're in love. She killed her previous master (who was abusing her) after tricking him into using all three command spells and, because the Master supplies the prana for the servant and acts as an anchor for them to stay in the world, that meant that she rapidly ran out of prana and was dying. Then, Soichirou came across her, took her back to the temple and looked after her, making a contract with her and having sex with her to give her prana, leading to her falling in love with him (and, indeed, him falling in love with her).

What is the connection between sakura and rin?

Spoiler:

They're sisters.

What was that whole ritual thing about?

It was some rubbish made up by the anime writers to allow them to include the Sakura/Rin subplot and show more of Caster than following the Fate route would allow.

I also didnt really get the king arthur part, what happened in sabers past?

Well, the obvious answer would be to read the legend which her story is based on. Nasu never actually altered the details (gender-swapping Saber isn't actually incompatible with the legend as it stands, because even in the Nasuverse King Arthur was generally thought of as being male).

When she returned in the end, was it about that she accepted what happened and that she probably would die there?

She knew that she was dying even before she was summoned.

Spoiler:

Getting the Grail was a dying wish, so she could undo her past, and allow someone more suitable to be king.

And that that wouldnt mean that she failed?

Yeah, pretty much. She accepted that she had done the best she could have done for her country, and that it would be wrong to reject her whole life as worthless by going back and not pulling the sword from the stone.

And she requested the sword to be sunk as a sign that it was over for her?

That comes directly from the legend. King Arthur received Excalibur from the Lady of the Lake with the instruction that, when he died, it must be returned to the Lake from which it was obtained, or else his legend would be forgotten. That's why she told Bedeviere to do so, because she knew she was dying and so had to return the sword to fulfill her promise.

And what was the "villains" aim/story etc?

Kotomine just likes seeing people suffer (the Visual Novel explains it much better, especially in the Heaven's Feel route), and Gil is an extreme Darwinist who wants to use the Grail to kill virtually everyone on Earth, leaving only the strong to be ruled by him.

Did the villain (forgot his name) make gil drink from the grail so he would stay?

No, the Grail much was splashed on him accidentally in the last war. It's explained in Fate/Zero.

And most important, why did saber go back?

She didn't have a choice. The only way she could stay would be to use the Grail to do so, because without it Shirou doesn't have anywhere near enough prana to keep her in the world. Since the Grail had to be destroyed, there was no choice but for her to go back, and because Shirou and Saber's idealism meant that they were entirely focussed on destroying it, they never even tried to think of a way to allow her to remain afterwards.

Didnt she decide in the episode where lancer died that she would acept her past and move on?

And she did, which is what the ending was all about. She gave up on the idea of changing the past, and accepted her life and how it had ended.

I also read something about a story where they meet saber again since shes sleeping somewhere?

That's the Realta Nua "Last Episode", but it's rather dubious, and what happens isn't well explained. It's best to just ignore it, IMO.

Also if I want to read more, what should I get? Books, Visual Novels? How much more stuff is there? is there a Manga? And how are the novels? I tried the Higurashi novel but, although its good, its just too long for me and got boring. Are the FSN novels shorter?

There is a Manga, but it's not very good, and unless you want to actually buy it, only a small proportion is translated (and, even the purchaseable version isn't finished yet). If you want to read more, then you should most definitely get the Visual Novel, it covers the story in a lot more detail, and explains all the stuff that the anime just hinted at.

It is pretty long, though, although IMO it's definitely worth it, because there's simply no adaptation of it that comes even close to doing justice to the original VN (the anime is a poor-quality adaptation of what is usually seen as the worst route).

There is also a prequel story, called Fate/Zero (the first three (out of four) chapters of which are translated and available online) and a (sort-of) sequel visual novel called Fate/Hollow Ataraxia (which isn't fully translated yet), but I wouldn't recommend reading either of them (especially Hollow Ataraxia) without playing the VN first, because they won't make sense.

[sona-nyl]

I just have a question I have played all of the F/SN VN two times and I still cant get what the difference between Mana and Prana is. I hope someone could fill me in.

@Y0shi

Also if I want to read more, what should I get? Books, Visual Novels? How much more stuff is there? is there a Manga? And how are the novels? I tried the Higurashi novel but, although its good, its just too long for me and got boring. Are the FSN novels shorter?

If you couldnt get trough the first higurashi novel then you wont have any luck with F/SN since its the longest VN EVER translated. (but it will be surpassed by umineko in winter when EP6 is translated) And this isnt a samll amount of text. I think Eien no Aselia wich is much shorter than F/SN has almost the same amount of text as the Lord of the Rings trilogy. And F/SN is a lot longer than Eien no Aselia it has more text than an average book.

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by HanyuuChan

I just have a question I have played all of the F/SN VN two times and I still cant get what the difference between Mana and Prana is. I hope someone could fill me in.

Mana is more specific. Prana is just general magical energy, whereas Mana is magical energy that comes from the surroundings (as opposed to Od, which is the magical energy that comes from within the magus). Any large-scale spell (one that uses an incantation, for example) will generally use Mana, whereas simpler spells (like Rin's Gand) just use the Prana produced by the magus (Od).

If you couldnt get trough the first higurashi novel then you wont have any luck with F/SN since its the longest VN EVER translated.

Yeah, FSN is a long story. However, in reality, it's more like three shorter stories, since the three different routes have little in common other than the setting and the main characters. Anyway, IMO, it's worth playing it, because there is no adaptation of the VN that even comes close to it in terms of quality, and there's no other way to get the full story.

[y0shi]

Wow and one was supposed to get all this from the anime?

Guess I'll really have to get the novel, the higurashi novel was probably exceptional boring because I knew what was going on, maybe its better here. I just wish I could just get it as a book, listening to the same songs for hours with the same 3 pictures moving in the bg while staring at the screen is exhausting

Though I read something about some animated vn being released?

[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by y0shi

Wow and one was supposed to get all this from the anime?

Not really. The anime only hinted at the relationship between Rin and Sakura, without having played the game it is easy to miss it. Similarly, a lot of the other stuff I pointed out is only really explained in detail in the other routes of the game (everything relating to Sakura is covered in HF, the stuff about Caster is in UBW), or is stuff I know from the legend of King Arthur (if I didn't know how King Arthur died in the myths, and that he had to return the sword to the lake, I wouldn't have understood the ending of Fate either, probably).

Guess I'll really have to get the novel, the higurashi novel was probably exceptional boring because I knew what was going on, maybe its better here.

Well, in that case, you may not like the Fate route too much, because the anime is mostly based off it. The other two routes, however, follow entirely different plots (HF, in particular, is barely covered in the anime).

I just wish I could just get it as a book, listening to the same songs for hours with the same 3 pictures moving in the bg while staring at the screen is exhausting

Actually, FSN isn't like that. For a start, the pictures are a lot more varied, and the soundtrack is, IMO, probably one of the best game soundtracks in existance (some of the songs are just awesome, especially since they generally fit the mood of the scene very well). I'm having this problem with Tsukihime (the predecessor to FSN, which was made on a much lower budget), because having played FSN I just can't get used to the sameness of the songs and the lower quality of the animation. Plus, there is a voice patch for FSN (it's in Japanese but, still, hearing the characters talking, and their tone of voice, does a lot to make it less monotonous, IMO).

Though I read something about some animated vn being released?

Not that I'm aware of. There's a movie of the UBW scenario (the second one) which has just been released (it's not out on DVD yet, though, so you can only see it if you go to Japan...), but I wouldn't recommend watching it if you haven't played the game first, because it compresses the whole plot into 90 minutes, and thus probably won't make much sense to someone who hasn't played the game (OTOH, if you have played the game, watching all the fight scenes etc. animated is likely to be awesome).

[Polar_Lord]

From Fate Hollow/Ataraxia, it would seem that Hrunting seems to have the same amount of power as Caladbolg with the additional power of homing, speed and distance. If this is the case, why would there be any reason for Archer to use Caladbolg?

[GDB]

Easier to project/trace, I would assume. If you don't need the homing feature, why spend the extra energy?

[Blade_Lord]

Originally Posted by Polar_Lord

From Fate Hollow/Ataraxia, it would seem that Hrunting seems to have the same amount of power as Caladbolg with the additional power of homing, speed and distance. If this is the case, why would there be any reason for Archer to use Caladbolg?

Charging time. 40 seconds is like an eternity to an Archer. Hrunting is the best choice if he decides to go camping over agile opponent like Rider.