Anime = Cartoons?

[Almazluverdis3]

This is a discussion of whether anime is a rip-off of cartoons. It all started when a Japanese man (responsible for Astro Boy) saw some Mickey Mouse shorts. He was inspired to make something similar. But he spiced it up. Decades later, thousands of similar "anime" had been created.


As I sit here, writing about his legacy,I ask your opinions, folks. Did anime start as a rip-off, or was it a bright idea?

[mindovermatter]

I actually read an article about this at some point.
The question was on the exact age of the first flip book found in Japan, because if it was older than a certain year (I don't remember which) then that proved that the Japanese actually came up with the idea first.

but either way, anime definitely developed quickly into a unique art form, and the Japanese probably ended up being bigger experts in the field than Americans (though now that there are more sides to the story, corps like pixar have done wonderful things)

I think this topic would probably belong in general anime though. maybe a mod will move it

[Azumanga Davo]

Originally Posted by Almazluverdis3

This is a discussion of whether anime is a rip-off of cartoons. It all started when a Japanese man (responsible for Astro Boy) saw some Mickey Mouse shorts. He was inspired to make something similar. But he spiced it up. Decades later, thousands of similar "anime" had been created.


As I sit here, writing about his legacy,I ask your opinions, folks. Did anime start as a rip-off, or was it a bright idea?

Well, I would say it's not really Walt Disney's exclusive domain as such, but he was the first to bring the idea to the mainstream public all the way back in 1928.

Japanese anime can be considered a form of animation (well, I just sound silly now, of course it is), the only difference from the Western versions is of course in storyline and drawing style. Hardly a rip-off in my eyes, more like a "this is how we in the Far East see it" ideology. A form of evolution if you like.

[GundamFan0083]

Osamu Tezuka was the father of anime.
He was inspired by the old Disney animated movies (Cinderella, Bambi, etc.).
I wouldn't call anime a "rip-off" of American animation since it clearly evolved into its own art form very quickly.

[Rickketik]

.... what are you talking about? Anime means cartoon..

[GundamFan0083]

I believe the OP was asking if the Japanese ripped-off the Americans with regard to the artstyle of anime.

[Rickketik]

then yes, Japanese animation started as a ripoff of western animation..
And Astro Boy was not the first Japanese animation. Japanese started playing with animation almost a century ago..

[Kafriel]

I believe the OP was asking if the Japanese ripped-off the Americans with regard to the artstyle of anime.

Afaik the animation studios back in 80-90s were japanese, and I only heard of eastern animation trying to look more "westernized" only recently with the collaboration of Marvel/Madhouse.

[Vexx]

I'd call this a flamebait thread based on the use of "rip off" in the OP, or a very poor choice of words.

EVERY idea is in, some way, a "rip off" of other ideas - the term is derogatory. The creator of anime was certainly inspired by what he saw, yes, but anime evolved in very different directions from "US cartooning".
Universally, there are elements of cartooning that require certain concessions (like using larger eyes to improve the communication of emotion).

In the end, they're all "cartoons" (a 'rip-off' of a French word for animated drawings).

[ChainLegacy]

Echoing what others are saying, the term rip off doesn't make much sense here. Anime and cartoons are one in the same; anime is like a subdivision of cartoons for Japan only.

[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Afaik the animation studios back in 80-90s were japanese, and I only heard of eastern animation trying to look more "westernized" only recently with the collaboration of Marvel/Madhouse.

Actually Osamu admitted he was influenced by western animation when he set out to help create a Japanese animation artform.

However, I will emphasize again that Japanese anime IS NOT a rip-off of American anime.
As an anime fan from back in the day when it was still called Japanimation, I'm a little insulted by the rip-off label.
Japanese animation is an artform in its own right, to claim otherwise would be disingenuous.

[Kyuu]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I'd call this a flamebait thread based on the use of "rip off" in the OP, or a very poor choice of words.

EVERY idea is in, some way, a "rip off" of other ideas - the term is derogatory. The creator of anime was certainly inspired by what he saw, yes, but anime evolved in very different directions from "US cartooning".
Universally, there are elements of cartooning that require certain concessions (like using larger eyes to improve the communication of emotion).

In the end, they're all "cartoons" (a 'rip-off' of a French word for animated drawings).

Here's the thing though:

I've seen and read various bitching towards any attempt of Westerners emulating anime -- see the likes of Code Lyoko, Totally Spies, and the like. Avatar has been the best out of this group. The Sub vs Dub debate had been littered with argument against any Western modification of anime; and that was silly.

Originally Posted by Hey Missus

the only difference from the Western versions is of course in storyline and drawing style.

There's nothing unique about their storytelling. Y'can pretty much port ANY story across the globe and work it into anime.

However, their style of animation. I'll give credit to that. For a while, I had been arguing that Avatar:The Last Airbender was anime. However, within just the first few episodes, I managed to see why. Its storyline is superb and can rival the best stories Japan can provide.

[Roger Rambo]

How are anime not cartoons?

[v717]

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

How are anime not cartoons?

Clear your mind, and try to picture a 5 year old american child watching code geass, death note

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by v717

Clear your mind, and try to picture a 5 year old american child watching code geass, death note

And yet, "anime" also covers Pokemon and Speed Racer. It is just that in the US, they pretend to differentiate by calling one "cartoons" (Dora the Explorer) and the other "animated features" (Heavy Metal, Fritz the Cat, etc). In reality, the word "cartoons" cover all of them or none of them depending on your opinion of the word .

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by v717

Clear your mind, and try to picture a 5 year old american child watching code geass, death note

Not a problem. I have a female friend who watches HOTD and Code Geass with her younger siblings (14 y.o sister, 10 y.o brother), and they continue to be top scorers in their respective schools.

Though I am really disturbed when she told her younger sister that Suzaku loves Lelouch and is willing to die for him. Damn fujoshi.

[Sumeragi]

My definition: Cartoons are western animations, Animes are Japanese animations, and Enis are Korean animations.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Not a problem. I have a female friend who watches HOTD and Code Geass with her younger siblings (14 y.o sister, 10 y.o brother), and they continue to be top scorers in their respective schools.

Though I am really disturbed when she told her younger sister that Suzaku loves Lelouch and is willing to die for him. Damn fujoshi.

My girlfriend is 8-10 years younger than some of her other siblings. So when she was ten, her anime diet included such shows as Evangelion, Utena, and Serial Experiments Lain.

[Triple_R]

I think that the term "rip off" is being misused a bit in this thread.

A "rip off" isn't simply when you incorporate an element or two of a popular piece of entertainment into something of your own creation (as early anime animators did by incorporating the "big eyes" artistic style of Disney into their works).

A "rip off" is when you borrow very extensively from a specific popular piece of work, and the similarities are so vast and overreaching that the audience can instantly tell that borderline plagiarism is going on.

Rip offs genuinely do happen some times, but it didn't happen with anime simply being inspired by Disney and taking a couple elements from him. I mean, the difference between Astro Boy and early Mickey Mouse cartoons is rather vast.


As for anime = cartoons....

My view is that anime is a subset of animation, and refers specifically to Japanese animation.

When people use the term "cartoons", they typically think of animated children's entertainment. I myself don't have a problem using the term that way.

Not all anime are intended for a child audience, even if some children may watch such more mature anime.

For this reason, I wouldn't equate anime with cartoons.

[Mr. DJ]

for the purpose of the animation world...

a ripoff is a copy/cheap imitation of someone elses work (like what Gene Simmons' son did)

being inspired and basically starting a animation evolution in another country on the other hand, is not.