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Old 2015-06-04, 15:13   Link #1181
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
If you want to extend this argument, I suggest you to check recent yuri shows sales, especially hardcore ones like Sakura trick. Yuri isn't a main driving sale point, and it is certainly not something that a studio would deliberately add to bolster sales whatsoever.
Actual yuri is a hard sell, yes. But yuri subtext always helps. Case in point, preorders numbers after episode 8 increased a lot. And I mean a lot. Volume 1 went from 120 or so to the top 20 in the preorder raking.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2015-06-04 at 16:10.
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Old 2015-06-04, 15:52   Link #1182
Triple_R
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@Klashikari What you've wrote about how the anime compares to the source material is not reflective of what I've heard from other people that have familiarity with both the source material and the anime. And those people went into considerable detail with me in specific areas, which definitely reinforces their general observations on how the anime compares to the source material.

Now, when it comes to the profitability of yuri...

I haven't checked anime DVD/BD sales figures in awhile, but IIRC, the two best-selling late-night anime of the last five years (on DVD/BD) are Madoka Magica and Love Live! Season 2

Tonally, these are two very different shows. One being on the darker and more serious side of things, with the other being much brighter and more comedic. So what's one major thing they have in common? Heavy degrees of yuri subtext.

Yuri as a primary genre might not be that popular, but as a major secondary element, it can certainly help sell shows. And I think that's what KyoAni banked on here.

Besides, consider the impact that Episode 8 had. In addition to what Kazu-kun just pointed out about preorders jumps, it's also true that fanart for this show has jumped considerably since Episode 8 (I've seen this through pixiv searches). Yuri subtext does seem to be helping Hibike at a commercial and marketability level, at least.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post

The bit that doesn't make sense is the fact that they gave the Kumiko-Reina relationship blatant romantic subtext. Had they left it platonic, it would've been fine to just have a Kumiko-Shu romance as a smaller side plot, but now it doesn't make any damn sense anymore. Having a romantic relationship that's more integral to the plot, directly compete with a romantic relationship that isn't - it's obvious which one the narrative structure suggests should win. And yet the individual narrative hints suggest the opposite. Mixed messages much? It's like if Hanasaku Iroha explored a genuine romantic link between Ohana and Minko: No way in hell would Ohana end up with Ko.

(But for the record, I still really like this show).
That HSI comparison is inspired. Well-done, Haak. That comparison does fit pretty well.
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Old 2015-06-04, 16:28   Link #1183
Klashikari
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Just for clarification of what I was trying to point out: the original "bait" itself was more or less apparent in the original material (please refer to this for your instance), but by no means I "confirmed" or asserted relationships and whatnot (and I sincerely couldn't care less about that, since I don't see the actual yuri in there).

My intervention was solely to point out the whole theory about deliberately trying to bait audience for sake of sales is a bit far fetched, considering 1) the source material 2) the actual "prowess" of shows driven to this tangent 3) that tangent being subdued and coming late in the show.
If the purpose of this plot part was really to make more profits, then they would have played that card quite early, and it wouldn't be as much as muddy waters as it was in the original material.

That said, it is no question that scene had an effect on the sales, but that's absolutely not the initial purpose of the given scene.

Also, the fact 2 very popular show having yuri as the only common is at best a very circumstancial observation that isn't exactly shared by other shows. Moreso if we consider the fact they are not targeting the same audience at all.
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Old 2015-06-04, 16:31   Link #1184
BleedingUranium
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Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
BleedingUranium, if you like this show, do look at Hyouka. But don't be put off by the first few episodes, which seemed to me very different from and far less interesting than the way the show developed later.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.



I don't really have anything to post at the moment, so have a random Reina pic from my screencaps folder, I really like this one:

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Old 2015-06-04, 16:51   Link #1185
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Just for clarification of what I was trying to point out: the original "bait" itself was more or less apparent in the original material (please refer to this for your instance),
The original material and the anime are pretty different.
Spoiler for comparison:

Also, the spoilers in that link you posted are taken out of context.

Quote:
but by no means I "confirmed" relationships and whatnot (and I sincerely couldn't care less about that, since I don't see the actual yuri in there).
I don't see actual yuri either, because a yuri relationship unfortunately needs unambiguous evidence to be taken seriously. But I see subtext, and it's considerably stronger than in the novels because
Spoiler for comparison:

Quote:
My intervention was solely to point out the whole theory about deliberately trying to bait audience for sake of sales if really fer fetched, considering 1) the source material
I already addressed the source material issue above. I could go into details but I really don't want to derail the thread with novel discussion.

Quote:
If the purpose of this plot part was really to make more profits, then they would have played that card quite early.
They had to build up to this moment. There was a Kumiko / Reina scene in pretty much every episode building up to what happens in episode 8. It wouldn't work half as well otherwise. Besides, the first BD volume isn't even out yet, so they played their card when they had to.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2015-06-04 at 17:57.
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Old 2015-06-04, 16:52   Link #1186
blakstealth
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I love how the shoujou-ai tag is gone now. Let's keep it that way. :P
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Old 2015-06-04, 17:01   Link #1187
BleedingUranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blakstealth View Post
I love how the shoujou-ai tag is gone now. Let's keep it that way. :P
On a similar note, I was very amused when the "yuribait" tag was added, and I clicked on it to find just this thread.
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Old 2015-06-04, 18:25   Link #1188
deadite
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Nobody cared about Shuichi until he came in between KimikoxRreina. All I remember when the show started is people commenting hos Kumiko and Shu's interactions were interesting and subtle and there's more ground to cover in that aspect of her relationship. I remember people commenting how Kumiko's reactions to Shu were very telling of her character's insecurities. Now the game has changed, and now I've seen more Shuichi bashing out of the blue.
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Old 2015-06-04, 19:26   Link #1189
Birdway
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Originally Posted by Sagitta Luminis View Post
I honestly have no fucking idea where Hazuki got that Kumiko is interested in Shuuichi. What? How the fuck did you reach that conclusion?! It's like the anime is trying to sell us that Shuuichi and Kumiko is a thing, while completely ignoring the reality of the characters. Does the creator not know her own characters?
You know teens needs no deep reasons to fall in love right?
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Old 2015-06-04, 19:28   Link #1190
BleedingUranium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Birdway View Post
You know teens needs no deep reasons to fall in love right?
Case in point: Hazuki.
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Old 2015-06-04, 19:42   Link #1191
Kazu-kun
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You know teens needs no deep reasons to fall in love right?
Sure, but in fiction, "falling in love" or "loving someone" has to be shown in a compelling manner. Otherwise it defeats the purpose.
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Old 2015-06-04, 20:34   Link #1192
bohaha
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I already loved Hibike even before episode 8 happened. Personally, I prefer it without prancing around romance too much but thats what it makes it more appealing, adding both subtle and suggestive hints(thats how I see it) to stir things up. I see Shoe1 as a supporting character/childhood friend, they talk about the issues of the club after school and he is always the one who approaches Kumiko, certainly he likes to level up their relationship and thats all. He is not a hatable character and he is cute as Makoto and a good guy but if they want him to be relevant as a love interest they would need to delved in his character more (IMO) (3-4 episodes left? idk.) Maybe in 2nd season or movie.

The show is all about Kumiko's growth as a person and how people around her affects her, specially Reina. Reina has a strong personality and goals with her, she wants to be 'special' (idk what that means XD). Someone great to look up too for Kumiko While for Reina, Kumiko is someone who makes her question/challenge her goals (Truth hurts but it would not stop me...kinda way) because of Kumiko's blunt and cynical personality and I think thats what Reina "loves" about Kumiko (She's an M) They kinda complement each other in a sensible way.

It is true that Kumiko and Reina has good chemistry together regardless if im wearing my yuri goggles or not. It does not need to be a romantic or platonic relationship between them...but it would be a plus for me if it turned out romantic which I highly doubt but still hoping(baited)...LOL
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Old 2015-06-04, 21:08   Link #1193
Birdway
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Sure, but in fiction, "falling in love" or "loving someone" has to be shown in a compelling manner. Otherwise it defeats the purpose.
The compelling is just a personal take that differs on each person.
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Old 2015-06-04, 21:20   Link #1194
Kazu-kun
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Things would be so much easier for people working in the entertainment industry if that were true.


I can't wait to get proper scans for this
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Old 2015-06-04, 21:55   Link #1195
blakstealth
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There is so much good art for this show.
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Old 2015-06-04, 22:18   Link #1196
Birdway
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I'm gonna wait for third years art.
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Old 2015-06-04, 22:27   Link #1197
blakstealth
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I dunno how people are finding these sample visuals. Where are you looking? Japanese merch sites?
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Old 2015-06-04, 22:35   Link #1198
Romanticide
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Probably the merch sites or something like it. Twitter might have them too.
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Old 2015-06-04, 22:52   Link #1199
Birdway
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Originally Posted by blakstealth View Post
I dunno how people are finding these sample visuals. Where are you looking? Japanese merch sites?
Look at the series website's goods.
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Old 2015-06-05, 00:12   Link #1200
DragoonKain3
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
Actually, Kumiko started that off by saying "I just think he good at encouraging people," i.e. she framed it as what she personally thought in contrast to how the other people in the club thought he was "kakkoi."
Just like... hmm, trying to find a good analogy here... you know how people preface their stories saying it happened to a friend of friend of theirs? When you know it's really a story that happened to them, but they are just too embarrassed/afraid to admit it? (I think OreGairu S1 put it hilariously but I digress) It's the same here, with the "that's what everyone else says" is just another way of saying "this is what I really think but I'm too afraid to admit it because of reasons".

Let's take the scene in question...

"Oumae-san, what do you think of Taki-sensei?"
"Eh? Taki-sensei? What do I think? Well, I think he's a good teacher. Everone practices now. Natsuki-senpai said it wasn't like this last year. And he's 'kakkui' and stuff..."
"Kakkui?"
"No, not me! That's what everyone else says. I just think he's good at encouraging people." <more rambling from Kumiko>

Of course one can LITERALLY interpret that into Kumiko is merely stating what everyone else said about Taki, but I see it as her backtracking on her previous words. She tries to frame the opinion of 'kakkui' belongs to other people, when it's really obvious it's her opinion to begin with. This is because it was part of her reply to Kousaka's question of what SHE thinks of Taki-sensei, and only did she take back her words because it elicited such a strong reaction from Reina, and she didn't want Reina to go ham on her again.

That's one of the reasons why I can't stomach the translation as 'hot' or 'good looking', because apart from my own shipping bias, you mention that it was OTHER people and not Kumiko who mentioned that sensei was an 'ikemen'. Kumiko at that scene wasn't looking particularly impressed in that regard, and I have seen nothing since that would have changed her mind about Taki-sensei's looks. So from a character standpoint, I think it's the wrong translation.



And if character consistency isn't enough, my argument still stands. Let's take a look closer at the latter half of her response: "No, not me! <Kakkui is> what everyone else says. I just think he's good at encouraging people."

So let's ask ourselves, what is Kumiko trying to say here? She's trying to downplay her opinion on Sensei versus what 'other people' think Sensei is like, as taking this weaker position might, in Kumiko's mind, avoid Reina going ballistic on her.

That is to say, "I just think he's good at encouraging people" is said with the implication that it is a 'less strong' opinion of what she meant by 'kakkui'. And considering 'encouraging people' has nothing to do with a person's looks, I'm more inclined to believe she meant 'kakkui' as in 'cool'.

To illustrate my point... If 'kakkui' really meant 'good-looking', then her backtracking should've been something like "No, not me! <Taki sensei is good-looking> is what everyone else says. I just think his looks are passable."

But we all know her what her response was, and so I really do think it should be read as "No, not me! <Taki sensei is really cool because of his remarks last episode> is what everyone else says. I just think he's good at encouraging people."
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