AnimeSuki Forums

Last Sinner · 2012-12-12, 08:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elo the Blue

So glad Cam Cameron's finally been canned.

About 1 year too late but better late than never.

TooPurePureBoy · 2012-12-12, 09:39

It's not just about taking his starters out it's also the play calling. The Texans got the ball near the end of the third quarter/beginning of the 4th and simply ran Tate up the middle 3 straight times and punted. That's not good. A team that wants to win the superbowl should not be giving up with a quarter left to play.

GDB · 2012-12-12, 10:11

When you're still positioned #1 in your conference, you can. Why injure your starters this close to playoffs to win what amounts to a relatively meaningless game?

TooPurePureBoy · 2012-12-12, 11:25

Gotta have that Eye of the Tiger baby!

Last Sinner · 2012-12-12, 11:41

That kind of mentality got Gronkowski injured for New England. If the game is unwinnable, don't risk something that will derail your entire season.

creb · 2012-12-12, 11:52

That attitude ignores that people pay money to be entertained.

If the fans, as a collective, decide it's not worth spending money to watch a game because they think the team isn't going to bother to show up, then the whole house of cards begins to crumble.

There's a reason the Spurs were fined for what they did recently in the NBA.

In the end, only two teams are going to the Superbowl. As much as I'd love to see the Bears get there, and win (they won't-their offense is so dysfunctional it's sad), it'd lose a lot of meaning if they were all limp-wristed about how they got there.

As much as I like Petyon Manning's renaissance in Denver, I always thought his Colts were a team I couldn't respect, due to how they'd always take their foot off the throttle, simply because they reached a point prior to the playoffs where they didn't "have to" win.

The Texans look to be another team I get to laugh at.

GDB · 2012-12-12, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

If the fans, as a collective, decide it's not worth spending money to watch a game because they think the team isn't going to bother to show up, then the whole house of cards begins to crumble.

That's on Goodell for scheduling important games at the end of the season so as to prevent sitting starters. So, you can either have it the old way, where teams would sit their starters to make them fresh for the playoffs because the final games don't matter, or you can have it like it is now, where the players play, fail (or ridiculously succeed), and get sat to prevent injury.

Quote:

In the end, only two teams are going to the Superbowl. As much as I'd love to see the Bears get there, and win (they won't-their offense is so dysfunctional it's sad), it'd lose a lot of meaning if they were all limp-wristed about how they got there.

So you'd rather they go all out during the season, even in unwinnable games, just to flake in the playoffs due to injury? Not even reach the Super Bowl? Yeah, I'm sure you'd rather that than have one, maybe two games that get out of hand that the starters are sat in yet succeed in the playoffs.

Quote:

As much as I like Petyon Manning's renaissance in Denver, I always thought his Colts were a team I couldn't respect, due to how they'd always take their foot off the throttle, simply because they reached a point prior to the playoffs where they didn't "have to" win.

Pretty much every team did that before the scheduling changes if they had sufficient wins. It's just that the Colts were good enough to do it more frequently.

TooPurePureBoy · 2012-12-12, 14:38

I think there is a difference in sitting your players in the fourth when you have a safe lead and sitting your starters when you have a chance to come back and win the game. It would have been a miracle but they still had a chance to win. Seems wimpy to just concede a game when you have a whole quarter left, and I just don't see a team that does wimpy things down the stretch being anything but wimpy in the playoffs.

wingdarkness · 2012-12-13, 00:15

The bounty didn't break me, and I got more than enough orbs to stand up for the miserable season the saints have had (From search thread reports^^), but as we learned it was all bull$hit and our team had to suffer the ultimate price no team in the history of sports has had to endure.

It's funny how this was %90 - %10 demonazation of Saints and now it's flipped flopped SMH...Hilarious, but the damage is done...

In any event I got a new job working for the local newspaper, website, and radio about 4 months ago--I cover real pro, college, and High School sports (mostly football where I sideline report in the Superdome), and I literally have a game to cover every single night so it kinda murdered my message board time but as my ample ego knew just a shadow of my existence would still prompt fodder (Once again based on search thread results^^)...yeah buddy, when the cats away...

But yeah we suck this year, and Brees needed coaching, even the great ones do...A season lost, a stain on time, but somebody had to be the example, history chose us...

I'll try to make more comments as I know that what's sorely missed^^....

Hello fellas...

More hilarity

GuidoHunter_Toki · 2012-12-13, 01:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

The bounty didn't break me, and I got more than enough orbs to stand up for the miserable season the saints have had (From search thread reports^^), but as we learned it was all bull$hit

What do you mean it was all bull$hit. Are you implying that this means the bounty never happened? Its still clearly being stated that there was evidence that it was going on; Heck, that they even had specific evidence against Vilma in relation to the whole Brett Favre incident.

All that happened here is that the suspensions were lifted because Taliabue thought of it as players following orders and that they should have been fined rather than suspended.

On another note, welcome back

wingdarkness · 2012-12-13, 01:38

The way Goddell approached it was bullshit as we saw in Tags 22 page report where he Admonished Goddell for Arbitrary cherry picking People to suspend as a standard. Not to mention the public demonization of players based on that standard, But make no mistakes about it tags is a skillful lawyer who in essence reached a settlement That somewhat exonerated saints players while still protecting his protégé.

Tags Basically said The Saints players didn't do enough to validate being suspended and or fined Yet another guy felt the need to drag them through the mud publicly based on Negligible standards that I may add were easily refuted in federal court Based on the preponderance of the evidence. Hence bullshit

And thanks for the welcome^^

Samari · 2012-12-13, 04:39

Hey wingdarkness, haven't see you around this season. I wonder why.

I was hoping you'd be present for the 49ers ass whooping of the Saints in New Orleans.

Last Sinner · 2012-12-13, 05:02

Here we go again....

And Samari, I can't exactly blame him. My fave AFL team, the Adelaide Crows, were squeaky clean until this year. Turns out they freaking paid one player outside the salary cap by 200k with third-party deals. Result: Same penalties as the New Orleans Saints except CEOs were suspended instead of coaches and the player is racking off to another club and will only miss 11 matches next season (aka half a season).

Now don't get me wrong - I was furious at the people at the club responsible when I heard about this and the club deserved what it got. BUT....the captain of Carlton was revealed to have done THE SAME THING for a longer period for $1.2 million. And what happened to him and Carlton? NOTHING.

And then there's Melbourne...who had three former coaches come out and say the club forced them to tank against their will and threatened financial cutoff and the like if they didn't tank. AFL boss Andrew Demetriou has consistently said tanking is the one thing he never wants to see the game. He ends up being given ample proof Melbourne tanked. (Playing forwards in defense and your midfielders in the wrong position, taking players out of that week's squad, intentionally missing shots, etc.) Result...NOTHING.

So yeah, I refuse to watch AFL next season not because my team copped the penalty - they deserved it. I'm not watching because Andrew Demetriou is at least ten times more incompetent that Roger Goodell. He's let Carlton go because they're one of the big clubs and he's desperate for Melbourne not to fall apart as they have been for over a decade. The big four of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Carlton and Essendon have Demetriou by the balls and he lets them get away with too much. Playing about 4-5 games out of 22 away from home a year vs interstate clubs who have to play at least 10 away games, prime time slots to them almost all year, most lenient father/son drafting rules of any clubs. As for the quality of the game, goal kicking is in utter decline, tackling and holding the ball rules are farcical, accidental hits that were unavoidable are resulting in players missing 4-5 games, which all coaches and players think is ridiculous. What you guys pay for one season of access to games on NFL.com only buys one third of the season for TV access. And that's not even half of the stupidity he's responsible for or allows unimpeded.

Goodell is a goon. But trust me, you'd take him over Demetriou any day. And the carving up of the NFL game itself? Trust me - it happens just as much over here in AFL too. Not giving up on being a Crows fan but I can't watch the game in the state it is anymore.

Samari · 2012-12-13, 05:54

Please. If the Saints were 10-3 at this point he'd be bouncing off the walls. You don't get to come here and act like a goon all last season and then go incognito when the team hits the shitter. That's fair-feather fandom at it's finest.

GDB · 2012-12-13, 09:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

but as we learned it was all bull$hit and our team had to suffer the ultimate price no team in the history of sports has had to endure.

You clearly didn't read Tag's report. He only found three things as bullshit. First, Fujita was not guilty. Second, the punishments were without precedent. However, he also said that Goodell went easy on them, as they could've been tried at a federal level. Putting hits out on people is a federal offense, you know? And third, as you said, that he picked 4 players as examples despite saying 22-27 participated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

It's funny how this was %90 - %10 demonazation of Saints and now it's flipped flopped SMH...Hilarious, but the damage is done...

It hasn't flip-flopped at all. Tag actually incriminated them more, since he basically only gave the players their time back by using the "nazi soldier" defense.

wingdarkness · 2012-12-13, 10:29

^Well maybe you should read because im Talking about the public perception has flipped making the public demonization by Godell a calculated failure on his part. Godell is seething over having his power usurped based on reports so he is an abject failure to many in this matter. But you and others go on, if you think Roger handled this bounty gate anything close to exceptional and not a complete and utter failure from the outset which is the overwhelming opinion of players and media NOT FROM NEW ORLEANS, I'll sign up for the tea party newsletter. "Nazi Soilder" defense

, how apt...

They could have been tried on a federal level for putting a hit? Like the mafia right? Jesus Skywalker I must be the only otaku in this site that has played football, can you not read between the lines? You guys just don't know much if anything about the locker room culture in football it's so clear based on your comments about that, but I digress.

@Samari - Take a bubble bath man, you can finally relax I'm back^^...

GDB · 2012-12-13, 10:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

^Well maybe you should read because im Talking about the public perception has flipped[/color]

Well, maybe you should type what you mean. Because what you meant and what you said weren't the same.

Quote:

But you and others go on, if you think Roger handled this bounty gate anything close to exceptional and not a complete and utter failure from the outset

Now who needs to read? Where did I say he handled this exceptionally? Nowhere. All I said is they were guilty and could've been burned worse. Also, try using punctuation. It keeps your thoughts from sounding like the ramblings of someone committed.

Quote:

"Nazi Soilder" defense

, how apt...

If you don't think that's what it was, then you're not too bright. He put the onus of blame on the organization, calling it a poison, and that the players were just following orders. Gee, what does that sound like?

wingdarkness · 2012-12-13, 11:22

Sorry man I'm posting on the iPhone not to good with my skills on that... But suffice to say I think that comparison is a joke, In terms of legality and/or practicality. I played football for 12 years of my life and was told to take out players every game I ever played from little league. I got helmet stickers and praise for almost knocking this kid out on a crack back block in 11th grade... I have several friends who play college and pro and they understand the difference between semantics and killing people so I reject that analogy even if you think it applies legally its silly to use IMO....the Saints fuckked up by actually writing on a piece of paper what they were doing in terms of giving payment, but only the minority having no understanding of a locker room nature will jump to the absurdity that these were "hits" or bounties rather... Now with that said I understand why tags did what he did because of the impending legal battle on player safety From older veterans he had To use language that would protect the NFL .... That's why I said you have to be able to read between the lines but its difficult when u have people who have no basis for understanding inside locker room football culture.

GDB · 2012-12-13, 15:17

You're taking the "Nazi Soldier" defense too literally. It's not about "killing" vs "hurting". It's about "Doing something wrong or illegal, but you won't be punishing because you were just following orders". It's a dangerous precedent to set.

And if you don't see how at least some of those weren't hits or bounties, then you're either blind or purposely not seeing it. I can see calling any big hit a "pay for performance" or "pay for pain" program if you want. But when they specifically targetted the likes of Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning, they weren't merely paying for generic hits. They were specifically targetting a single person. That is a bounty.

wingdarkness · 2012-12-13, 16:24

Quote:

when they specifically targetted the likes of Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning, they weren't merely paying for generic hits. They were specifically targetting a single person. That is a bounty.

This is why we'll never agree...This statement tells me we live in two different worlds...

Every game I ever played, the defense was trying to knock the QB out...Knocking the QB outta the game gives you the best chance of winning the game, that's why every defensive coord. from the history of time tells their defensive players to take him out, but that doesn't mean players take that as literal, other than to knock his a$$ out as well as you can between the whistles...

This same $hit has been happening for a hundred years, but the Saints put it on a powerpoint slide...

You just don't get it...It is what it is...

2012-12-12, 09:39	Link #5922
TooPurePureBoy Socially Inept Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Retracing my steps.....	It's not just about taking his starters out it's also the play calling. The Texans got the ball near the end of the third quarter/beginning of the 4th and simply ran Tate up the middle 3 straight times and punted. That's not good. A team that wants to win the superbowl should not be giving up with a quarter left to play. __________________ "Do what I do in every friendship and relationship, give 5%" - Ron Bennington

2012-12-12, 11:25	Link #5924
TooPurePureBoy Socially Inept Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Retracing my steps.....	Gotta have that Eye of the Tiger baby! __________________ "Do what I do in every friendship and relationship, give 5%" - Ron Bennington

2012-12-12, 11:41	Link #5925
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	That kind of mentality got Gronkowski injured for New England. If the game is unwinnable, don't risk something that will derail your entire season. __________________

2012-12-12, 11:52	Link #5926
creb Hiding Under Your Bed Join Date: May 2008	That attitude ignores that people pay money to be entertained. If the fans, as a collective, decide it's not worth spending money to watch a game because they think the team isn't going to bother to show up, then the whole house of cards begins to crumble. There's a reason the Spurs were fined for what they did recently in the NBA. In the end, only two teams are going to the Superbowl. As much as I'd love to see the Bears get there, and win (they won't-their offense is so dysfunctional it's sad), it'd lose a lot of meaning if they were all limp-wristed about how they got there. As much as I like Petyon Manning's renaissance in Denver, I always thought his Colts were a team I couldn't respect, due to how they'd always take their foot off the throttle, simply because they reached a point prior to the playoffs where they didn't "have to" win. The Texans look to be another team I get to laugh at. __________________ http://myanimelist.net/animelist/creb http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/creb It feels like years since they've been updated, btw. Also, cake.

2012-12-12, 14:38	Link #5928
TooPurePureBoy Socially Inept Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Retracing my steps.....	I think there is a difference in sitting your players in the fourth when you have a safe lead and sitting your starters when you have a chance to come back and win the game. It would have been a miracle but they still had a chance to win. Seems wimpy to just concede a game when you have a whole quarter left, and I just don't see a team that does wimpy things down the stretch being anything but wimpy in the playoffs. __________________ "Do what I do in every friendship and relationship, give 5%" - Ron Bennington

2012-12-12, 10:11	Link #5923
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	When you're still positioned #1 in your conference, you can. Why injure your starters this close to playoffs to win what amounts to a relatively meaningless game?

2012-12-13, 00:15	Link #5929
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	The bounty didn't break me, and I got more than enough orbs to stand up for the miserable season the saints have had (From search thread reports^^), but as we learned it was all bull$hit and our team had to suffer the ultimate price no team in the history of sports has had to endure. It's funny how this was %90 - %10 demonazation of Saints and now it's flipped flopped SMH...Hilarious, but the damage is done... In any event I got a new job working for the local newspaper, website, and radio about 4 months ago--I cover real pro, college, and High School sports (mostly football where I sideline report in the Superdome), and I literally have a game to cover every single night so it kinda murdered my message board time but as my ample ego knew just a shadow of my existence would still prompt fodder (Once again based on search thread results^^)...yeah buddy, when the cats away... But yeah we suck this year, and Brees needed coaching, even the great ones do...A season lost, a stain on time, but somebody had to be the example, history chose us... I'll try to make more comments as I know that what's sorely missed^^.... Hello fellas... More hilarity __________________ Fly since ↔... Last edited by wingdarkness; 2012-12-13 at 00:31. Reason: hilarity...

2012-12-13, 01:38	Link #5931
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	The way Goddell approached it was bullshit as we saw in Tags 22 page report where he Admonished Goddell for Arbitrary cherry picking People to suspend as a standard. Not to mention the public demonization of players based on that standard, But make no mistakes about it tags is a skillful lawyer who in essence reached a settlement That somewhat exonerated saints players while still protecting his protégé. Tags Basically said The Saints players didn't do enough to validate being suspended and or fined Yet another guy felt the need to drag them through the mud publicly based on Negligible standards that I may add were easily refuted in federal court Based on the preponderance of the evidence. Hence bullshit And thanks for the welcome^^ __________________ Fly since ↔... Last edited by wingdarkness; 2012-12-13 at 01:41. Reason: Sorry no Redword on iPhone posting

2012-12-13, 04:39	Link #5932
Samari World's Greatest Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Francisco Age: 36	Hey wingdarkness, haven't see you around this season. I wonder why. I was hoping you'd be present for the 49ers ass whooping of the Saints in New Orleans. __________________ "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!" 永遠不要失去信心，你的命運。

2012-12-13, 05:02	Link #5933
Last Sinner You're Hot, Cupcake Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 42	Here we go again.... And Samari, I can't exactly blame him. My fave AFL team, the Adelaide Crows, were squeaky clean until this year. Turns out they freaking paid one player outside the salary cap by 200k with third-party deals. Result: Same penalties as the New Orleans Saints except CEOs were suspended instead of coaches and the player is racking off to another club and will only miss 11 matches next season (aka half a season). Now don't get me wrong - I was furious at the people at the club responsible when I heard about this and the club deserved what it got. BUT....the captain of Carlton was revealed to have done THE SAME THING for a longer period for $1.2 million. And what happened to him and Carlton? NOTHING. And then there's Melbourne...who had three former coaches come out and say the club forced them to tank against their will and threatened financial cutoff and the like if they didn't tank. AFL boss Andrew Demetriou has consistently said tanking is the one thing he never wants to see the game. He ends up being given ample proof Melbourne tanked. (Playing forwards in defense and your midfielders in the wrong position, taking players out of that week's squad, intentionally missing shots, etc.) Result...NOTHING. So yeah, I refuse to watch AFL next season not because my team copped the penalty - they deserved it. I'm not watching because Andrew Demetriou is at least ten times more incompetent that Roger Goodell. He's let Carlton go because they're one of the big clubs and he's desperate for Melbourne not to fall apart as they have been for over a decade. The big four of Collingwood, Hawthorn, Carlton and Essendon have Demetriou by the balls and he lets them get away with too much. Playing about 4-5 games out of 22 away from home a year vs interstate clubs who have to play at least 10 away games, prime time slots to them almost all year, most lenient father/son drafting rules of any clubs. As for the quality of the game, goal kicking is in utter decline, tackling and holding the ball rules are farcical, accidental hits that were unavoidable are resulting in players missing 4-5 games, which all coaches and players think is ridiculous. What you guys pay for one season of access to games on NFL.com only buys one third of the season for TV access. And that's not even half of the stupidity he's responsible for or allows unimpeded. Goodell is a goon. But trust me, you'd take him over Demetriou any day. And the carving up of the NFL game itself? Trust me - it happens just as much over here in AFL too. Not giving up on being a Crows fan but I can't watch the game in the state it is anymore. __________________

2012-12-13, 05:54	Link #5934
Samari World's Greatest Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: San Francisco Age: 36	Please. If the Saints were 10-3 at this point he'd be bouncing off the walls. You don't get to come here and act like a goon all last season and then go incognito when the team hits the shitter. That's fair-feather fandom at it's finest. __________________ "Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!" 永遠不要失去信心，你的命運。

2012-12-13, 10:29	Link #5936
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	^Well maybe you should read because im Talking about the public perception has flipped making the public demonization by Godell a calculated failure on his part. Godell is seething over having his power usurped based on reports so he is an abject failure to many in this matter. But you and others go on, if you think Roger handled this bounty gate anything close to exceptional and not a complete and utter failure from the outset which is the overwhelming opinion of players and media NOT FROM NEW ORLEANS, I'll sign up for the tea party newsletter. "Nazi Soilder" defense , how apt... They could have been tried on a federal level for putting a hit? Like the mafia right? Jesus Skywalker I must be the only otaku in this site that has played football, can you not read between the lines? You guys just don't know much if anything about the locker room culture in football it's so clear based on your comments about that, but I digress. @Samari - Take a bubble bath man, you can finally relax I'm back^^... __________________ Fly since ↔...

2012-12-13, 11:22	Link #5938
wingdarkness Retweet Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: ニュー・オーリンズ、LA	Sorry man I'm posting on the iPhone not to good with my skills on that... But suffice to say I think that comparison is a joke, In terms of legality and/or practicality. I played football for 12 years of my life and was told to take out players every game I ever played from little league. I got helmet stickers and praise for almost knocking this kid out on a crack back block in 11th grade... I have several friends who play college and pro and they understand the difference between semantics and killing people so I reject that analogy even if you think it applies legally its silly to use IMO....the Saints fuckked up by actually writing on a piece of paper what they were doing in terms of giving payment, but only the minority having no understanding of a locker room nature will jump to the absurdity that these were "hits" or bounties rather... Now with that said I understand why tags did what he did because of the impending legal battle on player safety From older veterans he had To use language that would protect the NFL .... That's why I said you have to be able to read between the lines but its difficult when u have people who have no basis for understanding inside locker room football culture. __________________ Fly since ↔... Last edited by wingdarkness; 2012-12-13 at 11:39.

2012-12-13, 15:17	Link #5939
GDB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Age: 38	You're taking the "Nazi Soldier" defense too literally. It's not about "killing" vs "hurting". It's about "Doing something wrong or illegal, but you won't be punishing because you were just following orders". It's a dangerous precedent to set. And if you don't see how at least some of those weren't hits or bounties, then you're either blind or purposely not seeing it. I can see calling any big hit a "pay for performance" or "pay for pain" program if you want. But when they specifically targetted the likes of Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, and Peyton Manning, they weren't merely paying for generic hits. They were specifically targetting a single person. That is a bounty.