Macross Frontier 2nd Movie: Sayonara no Tsubasa

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by teelatsuki

How could someone possibly miss that? you go around the forum anouncing your fanfic I know it, actually tried to read it but you lost me when Alto met Ranka, you describe too much, but the way you portray your history seems to make things informed abilities more than actual facts, it's not a restricted medium so you could take your time in making the interactions actually happen and not saying they happened. Please take it as constructive criticism.

Now who is assuming things?

I would have to say PM me because I'm trying to figure out what you're saying and this isn't the place for me to ask.

But as for detail, I give as much detail as possible because that is the way the image in my head is. So basically, they can create the scene in their head and view it the same way; because I can't just make the scene in form of video, so I give the details to help create the scene.

Like for example, if I were to explain the prison Sheryl is in, I'd talk all about how the prisoners around her are acting and the wall color, even the build, to give people an idea of what she's doing, how she does it, and why she can't just break out (like some dumb people seem to think). I also explain the situation, her inner thoughts, but that coupled with the scenery makes the whole piece seem longer than it actually is. If you avoid everything but the speech in some fanfics, you can zip through faster and only need certain elements, especially if they've used a scene from the anime. So the meeting scene between Alto and Ranka applies to "used before, read speech/dialogue only."

Now you forget that the audience will remeber the first time they heared that and since it made so many people rage that would take away from they enjoyment, (there's so many people without sense of humor) the in-universe repercutions aren't the only ones that matter, also the line has lot of cheesiness in it, and that scene was cheesy enough without it, also this is the second movie ALL NEW MATERIAL!

Naw, from what I understood, 90% of the audience was new MF fans, not old. After MF first ended in '08, people were disgusted by the triangular ending. But when the first movie came out, they were more disgusted by the recycled footage form the series. So a lot of people this time around were new fans that watched the first movie and then the second but hadn't seen the series.

As for the cheesy line, you know a LOT of cheesy lines in Macross have been reused multiple times. Sheryl's line alone "listen to my song" was originally Basara's quote. So I don't get where the problem is there.

[cheesie]

I love how people would vomit ten thousand paragraphs of verbal diarrhea just to make a single point and then wonder why people aren't reading it.

I also love how even though the triangle ended a long time ago, there will forever be butthurt fans in the fandom continuing to give bad rep to those who did gracefully concede the shipping war and move on.

Would be nice to have our former Aruran comrades to give fresher perspectives on the second movie. I do miss some of them. (Notably Sir Dex the Gallant, Cool Seme, the other half of resident uke Takky, that made up the true OTP of the fandom sigh).

~cheese

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by Tak

My second point was in reference to series Alto.

The moment he chose to stay behind earned a big point in my book.

As for the movie? Well, I tend to merge movie & series characters. This is Macross, after all.

- Tak

Ah, my bad. Funnily enough, I've recently resolved that since Macross Frontier continuity is so FUBAR, with five+ versions to choose from, I'd rather keep them separated. <cue Offspring guitar riff>

[teelatsuki]

Spoiler for unrelated:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I would have to say PM me because I'm trying to figure out what you're saying and this isn't the place for me to ask.

But as for detail, I give as much detail as possible because that is the way the image in my head is. So basically, they can create the scene in their head and view it the same way; because I can't just make the scene in form of video, so I give the details to help create the scene.

Like for example, if I were to explain the prison Sheryl is in, I'd talk all about how the prisoners around her are acting and the wall color, even the build, to give people an idea of what she's doing, how she does it, and why she can't just break out (like some dumb people seem to think). I also explain the situation, her inner thoughts, but that coupled with the scenery makes the whole piece seem longer than it actually is. If you avoid everything but the speech in some fanfics, you can zip through faster and only need certain elements, especially if they've used a scene from the anime. So the meeting scene between Alto and Ranka applies to "used before, read speech/dialogue only."

You see my problem with that scene is that it seemed to be kinda important to read what they were actually talking about, to understand why it would impress Alto somehow as if IRC you say it did, since it was HOW THEY MET is kinda important. if you want a more deep analysis or explanation about it pm it.

also remeber that even if you describe somethig as you understand it someone else might understand something diferent, writing is better than video in the way that if smart enough the autor could say "this is what I mean" without the reader feeling stupid for not noticing or understanding it diferent.

Naw, from what I understood, 90% of the audience was new MF fans, not old. After MF first ended in '08, people were disgusted by the triangular ending. But when the first movie came out, they were more disgusted by the recycled footage form the series. So a lot of people this time around were new fans that watched the first movie and then the second but hadn't seen the series.

As for the cheesy line, you know a LOT of cheesy lines in Macross have been reused multiple times. Sheryl's line alone "listen to my song" was originally Basara's quote. So I don't get where the problem is there.

Well the movies weren't made with outsiders in mind, the amount of cameos and Shout-Outs to previous instances in the franchise point towards that, but they did want to make it understandable to outsiders. Also I'm pretty sure lots of people would go to the theater just to see Sheryl win the triangle after years of waiting for absolute confirmation.

The problem is that four chessy lines in a row is just too much! the third time around watching it made me want to faceplam trough it

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by Ceci-chan

I tried it. The result was less than desirable, lol.

Practice! I need to introduce my girlfriend to the wonderful world of Macross before i can have her practice on making Valkyrie apples.

Originally Posted by Ceci-chan

Next project: watch Macross 7.

Be prepared, because Basara will rock your world.

[sa547]

^
I laughed when I saw him munch on a leaf... Yet his crew's gonna burn down the house.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

After MF first ended in '08, people were disgusted by the triangular ending.

Actually, it was a (very) vocal minority. Most people - myself included - were not really all that bothered by the ending.

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Be prepared, because Basara will rock your world.

Oh, yeah... That he will.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Oh, yeah... That he will.

Whether you like it or not. :P

[Ceci-chan]

I'm really looking forward to watching Sayonara no Tsubasa on a bigger screen. I don't think my laptop has given it justice with its small size, lol.

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Practice! I need to introduce my girlfriend to the wonderful world of Macross before i can have her practice on making Valkyrie apples.

My niece ended up being the guinea pig for my first attempt. She at least recognized that the apple had wings.

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Be prepared, because Basara will rock your world.

Originally Posted by Darthtabby

Whether you like it or not. :P

He already is with the music in my library!

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by teelatsuki

Spoiler for unrelated:

You see my problem with that scene is that it seemed to be kinda important to read what they were actually talking about, to understand why it would impress Alto somehow as if IRC you say it did, since it was HOW THEY MET is kinda important. if you want a more deep analysis or explanation about it pm it.

also remeber that even if you describe somethig as you understand it someone else might understand something diferent, writing is better than video in the way that if smart enough the autor could say "this is what I mean" without the reader feeling stupid for not noticing or understanding it diferent.

For that, I have only to say that if you don't want to read the whole piece, it's your decision.

Myself, I've become a writer who describes the scene fully. Hell, if I really felt like it, I'd talk about the grass and trees just to give someone the feel of where they are because I cannot draw said scene. But the scenery is much like Ep.1, so I suggest you merely pay attention to their dialogue and actions.

But also, I've come up with a type of BD version (one with extended scenes that also include more Sheryl introduction) but I haven't posted it up yet. Maybe your opinion will change when you see that.

Well the movies weren't made with outsiders in mind, the amount of cameos and Shout-Outs to previous instances in the franchise point towards that, but they did want to make it understandable to outsiders. Also I'm pretty sure lots of people would go to the theater just to see Sheryl win the triangle after years of waiting for absolute confirmation.

The problem is that four chessy lines in a row is just too much! the third time around watching it made me want to faceplam trough it

I was talking about new Macross Frontier fans, not Macross in general.

And actually, according to Kawamori's one interview (and correct me if I'm wrong, Yot-chan), Kawamori stated that the movies could be seen as a separate universe, therefore it could be geared towards new audiences (not newbies for Macross but Frontier only).

Um, if you have a problem with cheesy lines, then tell Sheryl to get a new one, cause Basara used that line one too many times and now it's hers; so I think you have a problem with your Queen there.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Um, if you have a problem with cheesy lines, then tell Sheryl to get a new one, cause Basara used that line one too many times and now it's hers; so I think you have a problem with your Queen there.

And Ranka has the design of the over-stereotypical cheesy-moe-lolicon, I don't see you bitching.

- Tak

[Lancel]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Actually, it was a (very) vocal minority. Most people - myself included - were not really all that bothered by the ending.

For my part, I laughed heartily, then thought for a moment as I suspected the writer intended and said "Sheryl won".

Sheryl's most proper catchphrase is "Be grateful, I don't do this kind of service very often." I also like descriptive writing.

And I've just completely lost track of the movie discussion. Okay. Did anyone else notice Sheryl's earring gave Alto bullet time reflex mode?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Lancel

And I've just completely lost track of the movie discussion. Okay. Did anyone else notice Sheryl's earring gave Alto bullet time reflex mode?

I think that was the queen's doing by bending space/time before folding out.

- Tak

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by Tak

And Ranka has the design of the over-stereotypical cheesy-moe-lolicon, I don't see you bitching.

- Tak

Exactly!

Any character who loses the love triangle is often given Minmei rejection scenes (or similar to such) and the winner often gets Misa scenes. Those are cliche yet we don't bitch because it is Kawamori's tradition, the ultimate way he trolls, and also his style; and it won't change.

But what I mean is that teelatsuki saying a line is cheesy and overused, then Sheryl's line of "listen to my song" should've been changed altogether then. Ranka's, as far as I know, was original; Sheryl's was taken directly from Basara. Therefore, it is a cliche - a cheesy line - and something she/he should bitch about, considering she/he just stated in her/his own words that she/he didn't like cheesy/cliche lines or repetition.

I see Ranka being given Minmei's scenes (or what have you) as an honor to her character, because Kawamori still loves Minmei very much and therefore often chooses the best and most lovable (in terms of cuteness or certain personalities) to give Minmei's role to. That is what I love most.

[BetoJR]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

But what I mean is that teelatsuki saying a line is cheesy and overused, then Sheryl's line of "listen to my song" should've been changed altogether then.

Yeah, because she used it a grand total of... twice? It's called a homage. Deal with it.

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by BetoJR

Yeah, because she used it a grand total of... twice? It's called a homage. Deal with it.

And I'm saying that's what teelatsuki was saying, that lines shouldn't be repeated. And actually, in the series, she uses it three times; and twice in the movies. But regardless, I always have seen reused lines or references to the past Macross' as honorable returns of old anime, which I actually like.

[teelatsuki]

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

And I'm saying that's what teelatsuki was saying, that lines shouldn't be repeated. And actually, in the series, she uses it three times; and twice in the movies. But regardless, I always have seen reused lines or references to the past Macross' as honorable returns of old anime, which I actually like.

WHEN DID I SAY THAT?!!!!

My problem is not with chessy lines in general is with the estructure of that particular scene where you claim "you are both my wings" should have been used. Don't put words in my mouth!!

I liked a lot Basara's "listen to my song" and i also like it a lot when Sheryl says it, and don't really consider it a chessy line.

Spoiler for unrelated and last time I talk about it in here:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

For that, I have only to say that if you don't want to read the whole piece, it's your decision.

Myself, I've become a writer who describes the scene fully. Hell, if I really felt like it, I'd talk about the grass and trees just to give someone the feel of where they are because I cannot draw said scene. But the scenery is much like Ep.1, so I suggest you merely pay attention to their dialogue and actions.

Yes you describe the SCENARY fully the scene, not so much because you skip the conversations wich are a vital part of any story, if you are going to the point of heavily investigate things you should show it and not fall back on lazy writting.

[CrowKenobi]

Can we return to discussing the movie and not any more of these off-topic side-topics? Aren't there threads for them? (better yet, take it to VM or PM).

It's getting to the point where I'm going to lock this thread for a while...

[germanturkey]

finished the movie. there were two points where i was like, "oh my god, no!" once when Sheryl pushed Ranka back from getting sucked out. I'm an absolute sucker for self sacrifice scenes. and had they included that in the TV series, i would have gone on talk about character development and maturation, because she knew Ranka felt the same way as her, but was willing to give up for her.

the other was when Alto was standing on the palm of the queen, and you could see the shots coming at him, and he wants to finish his line, but he disappears. you could probably hear my cry of anguish if you were listening for it at around 7:40 EST...

While that's not an entirely satisfying conclusion, they did wrap it up nicely, potentially leaving the door open if they wanted to. But if they did do a continuation, I think it would lessen the impact of the ending considerably.

[Shiroth]

Originally Posted by germanturkey

While that's not an entirely satisfying conclusion

Personally i found that it was. Alto makes a decision regarding the triangle, and i don't mind these endings where they're left upto the viewers imagination.