AnimeSuki Forums

Chaos2Frozen · 2008-05-10, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Well it just seems to me that Road is interested in Allen for being such a kind person, way back from when they first met so that she can take joy in tormenting him.

Can't recall the exact wording but Road did say something like "I wouldn't want my dream to come true. Otherwise I won't be able to torture Allen anymore."

Might have been from the recent anime episodes. If anime and the manga could mix like this.

Now that you've mentioned it, I remembered something else that was recently said in the anime...

In the room where Road and Tykki were talking, Road brought up that the Noahs all have a dark nature within them, that urges them to kill Exorcists and destroy Innocences.

So that means that she herself has two sides. As a 'human' she's in love with Allen, but the Noah instincts within makes her wish to torture him as well...

...Man, talk about complicating

P.S - I'm reading the last manga chap now... Damn, this chap has tons of info! Alot more that people were letting on!

Oh and for the record,

Spoiler for Sherril:

P.P.S - LOL, Allen made Lulubell cry

!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormenk

In any case, I'm thinking if Allen inherited the 14th's abilities, it would include the memories as well. That's probably going to be a lot to deal with, when it comes true.

Maybe, maybe not.

As it was reveal by Road in this chapter...

Spoiler for 158:

Fynal_Fyre · 2008-05-10, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Now that you've mentioned it, I remembered something else that was recently said in the anime...

In the room where Road and Tykki were talking, Road brought up that the Noahs all have a dark nature within them, that urges them to kill Exorcists and destroy Innocences.

So that means that she herself has two sides. As a 'human' she's in love with Allen, but the Noah instincts within makes her wish to torture him as well...

...Man, talk about complicating

Isn't there an old quote, "you always hate the ones you love?"

Rather fits here doesn't it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

P.S - I'm reading the last manga chap now... Damn, this chap has tons of info! Alot more that people were letting on!

Oh and for the record,

Spoiler for Sherril:

Chaos2Frozen · 2008-05-10, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre

Isn't there an old quote, "you always hate the ones you love?"

Rather fits here doesn't it?

That's for Tsunderes

In This case, it would be "Love 'em to death."

But still doesn't feel right

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre

Spoiler for Sherril:

*Shrug*

It happens.

Daughters have the strongest (Not to mention strangest) effects on fathers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre

Spoiler for Sherril:

Not the first time super humans did it.

Fulmetal Alchemist, anyone?

Fynal_Fyre · 2008-05-10, 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

That's for Tsunderes

In This case, it would be "Love 'em to death."

But still doesn't feel right

If you put it like that, I guess so.

Actually both quotes kinda apply, I guess.

The Noah and Human sides of Road's personality are such total opposites in the same body....

Tormenk · 2008-05-10, 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Now that you've mentioned it, I remembered something else that was recently said in the anime...

In the room where Road and Tykki were talking, Road brought up that the Noahs all have a dark nature within them, that urges them to kill Exorcists and destroy Innocences.

So that means that she herself has two sides. As a 'human' she's in love with Allen, but the Noah instincts within makes her wish to torture him as well...

...Man, talk about complicating

Yup that should be the scene. And boy will it be a mess if that is true.

Quote:

P.S - I'm reading the last manga chap now... Damn, this chap has tons of info! Alot more that people were letting on!

The true meaning behind the evolution of Akuma.

And that the Earl is still a human at his heart?

Not much to offer about the Earl's end but as in the case of evolution, the Akumas are probably intended to reach a peak intended within the Earl's vision.

Btw, what's up with the 'Duke' this chapter? The title changes along with the form?

Quote:

Spoiler for Sherril:

And there's the version of Noah-Komui.

Quote:

P.P.S - LOL, Allen made Lulubell cry

!!!!

Shurill: You made her cry!

Allen: ...

Quote:

Maybe, maybe not.

As it was reveal by Road in this chapter...

Spoiler for 158:

No no not along those lines.

I'm talking about the Noah memory each Noah has. Like Skin's Rage. What effect would the Noah memory of the 14th have on Allen?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre

If you put it like that, I guess so.

Actually both quotes kinda apply, I guess.

The Noah and Human sides of Road's personality are such total opposites in the same body....

The child-like quality of the Human Road gives the innocent, cruel characteristic the Noah side carries. Much like how a young child might kill a insect by playing with it, innocent curiosity is blurred with intentional cruelty sometimes.

Two sides of the same coin in the end.

Chaos2Frozen · 2008-05-10, 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormenk

Btw, what's up with the 'Duke' this chapter? The title changes along with the form?

Either that, or he got a promotion

Baron -> Earl/Count -> Duke

But I think it's more like just a name, in the sense that to the ordinary Humans, he's the Duke. To the Order, he's the Earl. To the Noahs, he's the Count.

Either ways, he's a nobleman.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormenk

No no not along those lines.

I'm talking about the Noah memory each Noah has. Like Skin's Rage. What effect would the Noah memory of the 14th have on Allen?

'Will' itself is very general, but I think we're already seeing the effects of it.

Allen's will to live, to save both humans and Akuma till the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tormenk

And there's the version of Noah-Komui.

Indeed.

You know, in the Reverse Novel, Komui was already suspicious of Lenalee liking Allen. Needless to say he wasn't please at all...

But Komui is only human, Shurill on the other hand... If he ever finds out that his beloved daughter kissed Allen...

Anh_Minh · 2008-05-10, 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Indeed.

You know, in the Reverse Novel, Komui was already suspicious of Lenalee liking Allen. Needless to say he wasn't please at all...

So, what are the chances he'll invite Lou Fa to HQ so she can throw herself at Allen?

Fynal_Fyre · 2008-05-10, 13:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Either that, or he got a promotion

Baron -> Earl/Count -> Duke

Wait, is that in from lowest ascending or greatest descending? 'cause if it's the latter you've got it wrong.

Not nitpicking or anything, just clarifying.

But, as far as I know, Hakushaku 伯爵 is Japanese for Earl/Count.

THIS is the Kanji for Duke: 公爵 koshaku

AFAIK, from what I remember of the RAW, the romaji is still Sennen Ko if read proper, it can still mean Millenium Earl, according to some translations, but properly read, it is Millenium Duke.

Allen and the Exorcists still call him Hakushaku by title, so I assume Chaos2Frozen's right in this aspect, it differs according to who's referring to him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

'Will' itself is very general, but I think we're already seeing the effects of it.

Allen's will to live, to save both humans and Akuma till the end.

That's actually more inclined towards the resolve aspect of a will, is it not?

Umaibo · 2008-05-10, 14:24

So, the Earl is human and he still lived for a thousand years? (Things are starting to confuse me. =_=)

Guido · 2008-05-10, 15:29

Didn't have the chance to comment about ch. 158 at the morning, but I am very excited on the turn Katsura-sensei has taken the direction of the story into.

The manga-ka has actually expanded the scope and the nature of the story.

Spoiler for the Earl's Master Plan:

The only impediments and worries that the Earl is thinking about are:

Spoiler:

For Shurill I infered that his Noah aspect either could be 'ambition' or 'greed'.

Spoiler:

Anh_Minh · 2008-05-10, 16:08

About the Earl letting Allen live: he also did it in one of the Early chapters, around the time he met Lenalee, IIRC. He'd attacked Allen and Lenalee with lots of level 1 akumas, but didn't join the battle himself. At the time I thought it was because he was weak, and needed others to do his fighting for him, but that's been disproved since. So he let two exorcists go for no reason.

Guido · 2008-05-10, 16:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by usopsama

So, the Earl is human and he still lived for a thousand years? (Things are starting to confuse me. =_=)

Katsura-sensei based the Earl's character from the Count of St. Germain, who he was a real-life person; famous alchemist and occultist.

A tale claims that the Count might be still alive even in our present-day era.

yezhanquan · 2008-05-10, 18:49

Looks like we all like the new Noah and Road's look in this chapter.

As I've mentioned before, the chess game of global domination officially begins. As to who is playing against the Earl, I'm not really sure. I think it'll be Cross + Allen.

Chaos2Frozen · 2008-05-10, 21:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre

Wait, is that in from lowest ascending or greatest descending? 'cause if it's the latter you've got it wrong.

Why did you asume that I got the wrong way around

?

Yes, I know the Baron is the lowest rank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fynal_Fyre

That's actually more inclined towards the resolve aspect of a will, is it not?

Like I've said, Will itself is very general.

Quote:

Originally Posted by usopsama

So, the Earl is human and he still lived for a thousand years? (Things are starting to confuse me. =_=)

In the earlier volumes of the story, the Author herself said that the Earl is based off an actual person, who is rumored to have been immortal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guido

Katsura-sensei based the Earl's character from the Count of St. Germain, who he was a real-life person; famous alchemist and occultist.

A tale claims that the Count might be still alive even in our present-day era.

Hoshino says she based the Earl of Millennium off a legendary alchemist/preacher (most likely the Count of St Germain or Nicolas Flamel, though in many ways he also reminiscent of Dorian Gray, possibly referenced in "Dorian Grey man" and thus "D.Gray-Man", as adapted in the film The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) whose tale even claims he still may be alive somewhere.

Quote:

Originally Posted by yezhanquan

Looks like we all like the new Noah and Road's look in this chapter.

As I've mentioned before, the chess game of global domination officially begins. As to who is playing against the Earl, I'm not really sure. I think it'll be Cross + Allen.

Allen is part of the pieces.

But as was hinted several time, he's the most dangerous piece.

Both him and Cross are the only ones who has screwed him so many times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guido

For Shurill I infered that his Noah aspect either could be 'ambition' or 'greed'.

Spoiler:

It could also be possible that he might represent 'Love'.

After all, we can't just focus on the 'dark' side. We got to see how he usually act around others.

Fynal_Fyre · 2008-05-10, 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guido

Katsura-sensei based the Earl's character from the Count of St. Germain, who he was a real-life person; famous alchemist and occultist.

A tale claims that the Count might be still alive even in our present-day era.

Makes sense, he appears in Rozen Maiden as well, as the dolls' immortal "Father"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Why did you asume that I got the wrong way around

?

Human nature to always assume the worst?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

It could also be possible that he might represent 'Love'.

After all, we can't just focus on the 'dark' side. We got to see how he usually act around others.

True, but then again, sometimes a Noah's aspect may not be very clear.

In my case, if they had not said Tyki was Pleasure or Road was the Dream, I wouldn't have got it either.

ThoHell · 2008-05-11, 01:23

Wow, chapter 158 was rather different and interesting. Saw all the Noahs and Earl in a new light, mainly saying they looked different, ESPECIALLY THE EARL. WTF? So the plot thickens, rather exciting!!!

yezhanquan · 2008-05-11, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Allen is part of the pieces.

But as was hinted several time, he's the most dangerous piece.

Both him and Cross are the only ones who has screwed him so many times.

I think from a piece, he will graduate to become a player.

Fynal_Fyre · 2008-05-11, 02:16

Actually, isn't it already written in destiny that he is?

Chaos2Frozen · 2008-05-11, 02:22

There's a difference; To put it in a bad way, being a piece means that he has to do the dirty work, awhile risking his life on the field.

Cross on the other hand, is the 'player' (Lol, in more ways than one), he usually sits away from danger while manipulating the pieces.

And like the chess players, he's the one who knows more than the others.

Allen has, and will always be, a piece. Until somebody else can take over him.

Guido · 2008-05-11, 03:12

Actually, Allen is more a piece to the Innocence, that uses him.

2008-05-10, 15:29	Link #830
Guido Snobby Gentleman Join Date: May 2004 Location: Monterrey, México Age: 43	Didn't have the chance to comment about ch. 158 at the morning, but I am very excited on the turn Katsura-sensei has taken the direction of the story into. The manga-ka has actually expanded the scope and the nature of the story. Spoiler for the Earl's Master Plan: The plan involves orchestrating from behind the scenes multiple international incidents among politicians to drive the whole world into an entire full scale, world war scenario. A world war means use of weapons which translates into pouring armies into the fight which in turn yields fights and battles which will eventually lead to millions of lives lost which at the end will be used as raw material to produce a world-wide army of Akuma. That scenario fits perfectly in accord to the Earl's vision. The only impediments and worries that the Earl is thinking about are: Spoiler: 1. He doesn't know if the Order was able or not to dig enough deep researching the egg to discover the real nature of the Akumas' evolution. 2. The Earl knows in flesh that the 'Heart' has awakened but is unable to feel it in order to pinpoint its exact location and who the owner might be. 3. The Earl cannot shake off his mind those memories about the night when he made contact for the first time with Allen Walker, and how come the boy didn't get killed by Mana Akuma. The Earl is having serious doubts whether Allen's Innocence awakening was coincidental or preplanned beforehand. Only thing I don't like about this scenario is that Katsura-sensei is trying to pull a Harry Potter plot on the audience. I mean the Earl, who is like a big and baddie sorcerer is reflecting about his nemesis, Allen Walker, who wasn't killed when he first met him as a child. For Shurill I infered that his Noah aspect either could be 'ambition' or 'greed'. Spoiler: He was very frivolous and calculating for such a daunting move to have one of his Akuma to impersonate the foreign minister, then lure himself to let his guard down for the Akuma-imposter to shoot him in a staged attempt in order to create an international incident to set in motion the gears of war. Talk about a shrewd politician.

2008-05-11, 02:22	Link #839
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	There's a difference; To put it in a bad way, being a piece means that he has to do the dirty work, awhile risking his life on the field. Cross on the other hand, is the 'player' (Lol, in more ways than one), he usually sits away from danger while manipulating the pieces. And like the chess players, he's the one who knows more than the others. Allen has, and will always be, a piece. Until somebody else can take over him. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2008-05-10, 14:24	Link #829
Umaibo Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007	So, the Earl is human and he still lived for a thousand years? (Things are starting to confuse me. =_=)

2008-05-10, 16:08	Link #831
Anh_Minh I disagree with you all. Join Date: Dec 2005	About the Earl letting Allen live: he also did it in one of the Early chapters, around the time he met Lenalee, IIRC. He'd attacked Allen and Lenalee with lots of level 1 akumas, but didn't join the battle himself. At the time I thought it was because he was weak, and needed others to do his fighting for him, but that's been disproved since. So he let two exorcists go for no reason.

2008-05-10, 18:49	Link #833
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	Looks like we all like the new Noah and Road's look in this chapter. As I've mentioned before, the chess game of global domination officially begins. As to who is playing against the Earl, I'm not really sure. I think it'll be Cross + Allen.

2008-05-11, 01:23	Link #836
ThoHell Senior Member Join Date: May 2006	Wow, chapter 158 was rather different and interesting. Saw all the Noahs and Earl in a new light, mainly saying they looked different, ESPECIALLY THE EARL. WTF? So the plot thickens, rather exciting!!!

2008-05-11, 02:16	Link #838
Fynal_Fyre Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2007	Actually, isn't it already written in destiny that he is?

2008-05-11, 03:12	Link #840
Guido Snobby Gentleman Join Date: May 2004 Location: Monterrey, México Age: 43	Actually, Allen is more a piece to the Innocence, that uses him.