Who is the strongest guy/gal in OP?

[Phenomenal]

Well all of you seem to not understand, everything that I say is speculation, and so is your analysis Slayerx, I also see that Neodrag agrees with your words as if they were fact. You guys need to realize that this is anime and you guys speak like a swordsman can not have a technique to defeat logia users. In the world of anime nothing is impossible everything is possible, and the physics and logic you guys claim to talk about does not exist always. In the world of anime nothing is Bull, Neodrag and Slayerx. you guys obviously need to think outside the box because you act as if these are normal human beings fighting in the One piece verse.

It is possible for a swordsman to cut the spirirt of the logia user even in his lighting form, hell the breath seems to be like a spirit that a swordsman can sense and is able to cut. It is possible to cut a logia user in his elemental form so do not say it is bull, because normal humans like Slayerx and Neodrag are not in the One Piece world. everything is possible.

I say to you again Slayerx, you have no proof of what Mihawk's Sword can do or if it has Seastone in it. You stated the obvious that his skill is top class but what power his sword harnishes. Your artistic thing is a bunch of bull as well, you just keep rambling on about swoosh effect which is absolutely BULL!. Mihawk stated himself that his sword is Black it is called the "Black Sword". Having purple effects come out when he swings a black sword is not normal. Please stop trying to explain this artistic case when it is said what color of the sword is in the manga and anime.

you obviously need to go back and watch the Skypiea arc because Luffy was wooping Ener's butt. When Ener's Mantra, Trident, and physical skills were no match for Luffy Ener had to get rid of him. Stop saying Luffy was made out of rubber that is why... No no, Ener said he could deal with him with his trident and mantra, he could not even accomplish that. He had a plan B and it failed him because he could not handle Luffy in combat. Luffy skill pounded Ener into the ground.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

I say to you again Slayerx, you have no proof of what Mihawk's Sword can do or if it has Seastone in it. You stated the obvious that his skill is top class but what power his sword harnishes. Your artistic thing is a bunch of bull as well, you just keep rambling on about swoosh effect which is absolutely BULL!. Mihawk stated himself that his sword is Black it is called the "Black Sword". Having purple effects come out when he swings a black sword is not normal. Please stop trying to explain this artistic case when it is said what color of the sword is in the manga and anime.

And you have absolutly no proof that it does have seastone in it...
and Go take a damn art class

you obviously need to go back and watch the Skypiea arc because Luffy was wooping Ener's butt. When Ener's Mantra, Trident, and physical skills were no match for Luffy Ener had to get rid of him. Stop saying Luffy was made out of rubber that is why... No no, Ener said he could deal with him with his trident and mantra, he could not even accomplish that. He had a plan B and it failed him because he could not handle Luffy in combat. Luffy skill pounded Ener into the ground.

If Luffy was NOT made out of the ONE thing that Enel was weak against, would he have beaten Enel?
The answer is no, why? because he would no longer be able to punch Enel, thus meaning that ALL of the skills that he used against Enel would not have worked.... all his attacks would have just pasted right through... And Enel would also be able to use his most powerful attacks on Luffy, and Luffy would feel the full effect Enel's attacks... The very fact that Luffy was made out of Rubber was what made most of Enel's abilities Useless... The only reason Enel had to use the trident was because he could NOT use his lightning attacks against Luffy...

You guys need to realize that this is anime and you guys speak like a swordsman can not have a technique to defeat logia users. In the world of anime nothing is impossible everything is possible, and the physics and logic you guys claim to talk about does not exist always. In the world of anime nothing is Bull, Neodrag and Slayerx. you guys obviously need to think outside the box because you act as if these are normal human beings fighting in the One piece verse.

Oh, I see, that makes great, sence... let's "think outside of the box "

-Ao Kiji can make a wall of Ice so dence that not even Mihawk can cut it
-Ao kiji can beat Mihawk easy; Mihawk would get frozen before he could even draw his sword
-Mihawk Could cut the whole world in half if he really felt like it
-Jimbei is the color green
-Luffy is the reincarnation of Gold Roger
-a pure black sword makes a purple swish when you swing it (there a non-artistic explaination; on YOUR terms)
-Whitebeard has Seastone for bones and is immune to devil fruits
-Doflamingo found a way to be Immune to Seastone and won't sink like a hammer
-Mihawk actually has a devil fruit ability, we just never seen him use it yet

wow, i could go on forever making up Bull... er... i mean theories, like this

Hooray, for theories based on nothing!
There's no need to even back up these theories with "facts" because ANYTHING is possible until proven wrong
There's no such thing as Logic in One piece... Nothing is Bull, everything is possible...
If we don't know it then there's a good chance its possible... yup...

And here i was thinking that One piece atleast had it's own sense of logic...

[nh1]

Who knows? Maybe Mihawk shits seastones, or he's got +255 Lightning resistance and is totally immune to any bolt Eneru would care to throw at him. Now I don't want to hear you people telling me he can't shit seastones, because you really don't know that yet.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

And you have absolutly no proof that it does have seastone in it...
and Go take a damn art class


If Luffy was NOT made out of the ONE thing that Enel was weak against, would he have beaten Enel?
The answer is no, why? because he would no longer be able to punch Enel, thus meaning that ALL of the skills that he used against Enel would not have worked.... all his attacks would have just pasted right through... And Enel would also be able to use his most powerful attacks on Luffy, and Luffy would feel the full effect Enel's attacks... The very fact that Luffy was made out of Rubber was what made most of Enel's abilities Useless... The only reason Enel had to use the trident was because he could NOT use his lightning attacks against Luffy...


Oh, I see, that makes great, sence... let's "think outside of the box "

-Ao Kiji can make a wall of Ice so dence that not even Mihawk can cut it
-Ao kiji can beat Mihawk easy; Mihawk would get frozen before he could even draw his sword
-Mihawk Could cut the whole world in half if he really felt like it
-Jimbei is the color green
-Luffy is the reincarnation of Gold Roger
-a pure black sword makes a purple swish when you swing it (there a non-artistic explaination; on YOUR terms)
-Whitebeard has Seastone for bones and is immune to devil fruits
-Doflamingo found a way to be Immune to Seastone and won't sink like a hammer
-Mihawk actually has a devil fruit ability, we just never seen him use it yet

wow, i could go on forever making up Bull... er... i mean theories, like this

Hooray, for theories based on nothing!
There's no need to even back up these theories with "facts" because ANYTHING is possible until proven wrong
There's no such thing as Logic in One piece... Nothing is Bull, everything is possible...
If we don't know it then there's a good chance its possible... yup...

And here i was thinking that One piece atleast had it's own sense of logic...

First of all you have no proof that he doesn't have seastone in his sword.

Second I have taken an art class and my art teacher will tell me that the sword is black.

Ener got his ass pounded, How come Ener was not fast enough to take on Luffy, not strong enough not enough stamina to fight him till the end. The rubber should have made no difference what so ever thier are other ways to defeating Luffy like pounding him with combat and Ener failed to do that. Ener simply was not fast enough, strong enough nor had the stamina too take on Luffy.

How is he gonna handle mihawk if Mihawk can dodge all his lighting attacks or even cut all of Ener's attacks. Mihawk speed could be so blindingly fast not even his Mantra could predict him. The speed Mihawk dispalyed against Zoro without breaking a sweat is proof of that.

Now you are just being a spoiled little brat with the thinking outside the box comment. All I am saying is that everything is possible did not say it could actually be done but nothing is bull in the world of anime as you put it. So quit being a spoiled little child and actually have a decent conversation. Thankyou.

[MihawkXGP]

What does the purple flashing thing coming from his sword have to do with anything?
Did you see Episode 254? Zoro's sword with a bright flashy blue thingy cutting through it.

Logia users are immune to Physical attacks, simple as that. Spirit or whatever has nothing to do with this.

Being the most powerful sword in the world doesn't mean it can cut through things which do not posses a physical form.

[nh1]

That doesn't mean there's no way to counter the logia fruit abilities. Stop being ignorant and saying Eneru's the stronger one because you're all too narrow minded to see any methods Mihawk might use to counter Eneru's logia fruit. Heck, you're even confronted with a possibility (a very likely one at that), but brush it off by saying the best sword in the world can't have seastone in it because that would not make sense. In what way would that not make sense? Do we know that seastone sucks as material for a sword? No, I'm pretty sure we don't, so why would the best sword in the world not contain seastone?

I don't neccessarily agree with Phenomenol when he says Mihawk is the stronger one, but Kakashi from Naruto can apparently cut lightning, who's to say something as strange as that won't happen in One Piece? You simply don't know people, you simply don't.

[ninraven]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Dragonball and dragonball z was fun to watch even if it was repetitive, but that is what made the anime's so great and known by the world.

Oh of course. DBZ is what got me hooked on anime, by no means was I trying to trash it. I think I even read somewhere Toriyama wanted it to end with Frieza but was pressured to coninue it because it was making so much money.

DBZ is also what inspired Oda and Kishimoto, who are writing two of my favorite series right now.

But Toriyama did paint himself into a corner, so at least Oda seems like he won't succumb to the same fate.

I say to you again Slayerx, you have no proof of what Mihawk's Sword can do or if it has Seastone in it. You stated the obvious that his skill is top class but what power his sword harnishes. Your artistic thing is a bunch of bull as well, you just keep rambling on about swoosh effect which is absolutely BULL!. Mihawk stated himself that his sword is Black it is called the "Black Sword". Having purple effects come out when he swings a black sword is not normal. Please stop trying to explain this artistic case when it is said what color of the sword is in the manga and anime

I see what both of you are saying. The "swoosh" effect is pretty common in a lot of anime. I went back and watched the scene in question where mihawk squared off with zoro. Something like that is pretty common. Didn't kenshin have "swoosh" lines like that? The reason it's purple and not black is because it's supposed to be like a line of light, where the viewer can see the path the sword followed because in real time it was too fast to see.

The purple color is used because it's easier to depict as light, rather than black. Black is more solid, and could be confused as if the sword changed shape.

I would say it's more plausible that it is an artistic effect rather than something hidden within the sword. Purple makes a better light effect than black.

Hey, blacklights emit a purple light.... lol

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Ener got his ass pounded, How come Ener was not fast enough to take on Luffy, not strong enough not enough stamina to fight him till the end. The rubber should have made no difference what so ever thier are other ways to defeating Luffy like pounding him with combat and Ener failed to do that. Ener simply was not fast enough, strong enough nor had the stamina too take on Luffy.

Once again... Luffy - Rubber immunity to lightning = Enel mega lightning blasts and all physical attacks against Enel not working

The whole point of this was to explain how Mihawk>Luffy, and Luffy>Enel, does not automatically mean Mihawk>Enel

How is he gonna handle mihawk if Mihawk can dodge all his lighting attacks or even cut all of Ener's attacks. Mihawk speed could be so blindingly fast not even his Mantra could predict him. The speed Mihawk dispalyed against Zoro without breaking a sweat is proof of that.

And when Mihawk slashes enel, his blade will pass right through enel, and then Enel will blast him with a few 100 million volts of electricity... just like he did to Zoro... All enel needs to phase through Mihawk's attack is know that Mihawk is about to attacking... which Enel's Mantra will tell him when Mihawk is still a mile away

Now you are just being a spoiled little brat with the thinking outside the box comment. All I am saying is that everything is possible did not say it could actually be done but nothing is bull in the world of anime as you put it. So quit being a spoiled little child and actually have a decent conversation. Thankyou.

Congrats, know who know how we feel half the time when you take about all the stuff we don't know, that could be, but we have ABSOLUTeLY no proof of... and by your statement, of "Nothing is bull" and "everything is possible", all of my BS statements are pretty true

Originally Posted by MihawkXGP

Zoro's sword with a bright flashy blue thingy cutting through it.

Well it must be some kind of special power... cause it's certainly not a swish Sfx

Originally Posted by nh1

Heck, you're even confronted with a possibility (a very likely one at that), but brush it off by saying the best sword in the world can't have seastone in it because that would not make sense. In what way would that not make sense?

no one is saying that it is impossible, just that we have seen no real proof that it is true... the only reason poeple say that Logia's are so strong is because there is lots of proof as too why they are so powerful, and why they are so difficult to fight... At the same time, other poeple are doing the same about Mihawk, only they don't have the proof to back it up...

NeoDrag and I use what we have actually seen to be true in one piece, to create our theories.... we don't rely on pure speculation which can either be competly true or comepletely fasle...

One Piece and All anime's DO have a sence of logic, it just that they have their own logic... we build an understanding of what the logic is based off of what we see... and thus we are able to make more accurate speculation that actually hold water... We don't like to make speculations that have no proof behind them and thus hold no water

I don't neccessarily agree with Phenomenol when he says Mihawk is the stronger one, but Kakashi from Naruto can apparently cut lightning, who's to say something as strange as that won't happen in One Piece? You simply don't know people, you simply don't.

I stopped argueing the point of whether or not Mihawk can cut lighting, cause i think it doesn't matter... the thing is, if Enel gets cut he would just reform himself... it would take more then just being able to cut lighting to actually kill enel with a sword

[nh1]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

NeoDrag and I use what we have actually seen to be true in one piece, to create our theories.... we don't rely on pure speculation which can either be competly true or comepletely fasle...

And your theories are thus that there can't be any bigger fish than the currently biggest fish because you haven't seen any bigger fish yet. You guys are pretty certain of this even when there is rumoured to be quite a few really big fishes out there. You're also making up arguments (read: relying on speculation) to get these theories through.

There is NOTHING to suggest that being able to cut lighting will allow him to cut the flesh of a Logia type, absolutely NOTHING... The only way you can cut the flesh of a logia type is if you
A) use seastone (which there is no proof that Mihawk has it)
B) use the opposing element (which Mihawk also doesn't have)
C) the Logia user does not even suspect an incoming attack (this is the only thing Mihawk is capable of, and it would probably work against most Logia's, but Mantra will make it VERY difficult for him to attack without Enel expecting an attack)

Oh yeah, this is the absolute truth of how it all works in One Piece and you didn't leave out any possibilities.

I stopped argueing the point of whether or not Mihawk can cut lighting, cause i think it doesn't matter... the thing is, if Enel gets cut he would just reform himself... it would take more then just being able to cut lighting to actually kill enel with a sword

As in, if a logia fruit user is injured, he will just switch back to the way he was before he got injured? Would mean he could also use his power to take any shape and become whatever he wants to become. Or would the shape he could require materials from his own body? And how much of his body can he control? If you cut a limb off, can he turn it into electricity and then slap it back on? And what about the blood?

Luffy isn't rubber with a will, he's a rubberman.

[Illuyankas]

Have you seen any of the logia fruit users in a battle? Both Ener and Aokiji have been split in two, and reform, and Smoker and Ace (and Crocodile, I guess, but I'm not happy about labelling him as a logia user) have had damaged bodies, including holes through, and been fine. There is a whole world of difference between logia users and the fruit users like Luffy. They are ice/lighting/fire/smoke/sand with a will.

Oh, and you could add a D) MAGICAL POWERS, woooh, to satisfy all you 'let's make up an ability that defies the limits of the world that has already been defined by the author, just to suit our opinion' people, except that Oda already said there is NO MAGIC. So that list is pretty comprehensive. Also, even if it is a seastone sword, Smoker's seastone staff didn't help against Ace, did it? It's been mentioned before, but who reads discussion threads all the way through nowadays, eh?

[neodrag38]

What Illuyankas said.

And on

And your theories are thus that there can't be any bigger fish than the currently biggest fish because you haven't seen any bigger fish yet. You guys are pretty certain of this even when there is rumoured to be quite a few really big fishes out there. You're also making up arguments (read: relying on speculation) to get these theories through.

I'm sorry but I don't remember anyone claiming that Enel is the strongest out of the entire world. It has been commented that it's a given that Enel of course shouldn't be the strongest but still he would be Shikibuchai material in terms of overall ability.

How exactly is making clear that something hasn't really been proven is simply speculation? It remains that if you want a comparison between the proof that points to Mihawk's sword having seastone or not having seastone that the former doesn't have much going for it. Including when we are clearly shown material composed of seastone that none of them were black.

And also Nh1, please keep in mind that Slayerx comment about it not making sense for some special material to be in Mihawk's sword was made in mind that it would be kind of iffy to have Mihawk using a sword with some special ability and such rather than what he does simply being a result of his ability as a swordsman. Mihawk's sword having some unnatural quality upon it beyond simply being a sword of high caliber would be just as bad as him doing what he does using a devil fruit as Don Krieg idiotically accused.

[Phenomenal]

Let's just end this discussion Mihawk has not displayed any techniques or skills at all. In other words we have not even seen him fight all out like Ener. Having Mihawk vs. any opponent is unfair towards Mihawk, now Mihawk should not be discussed in battles because he is simply a mysterious character like Shanks, he is still in the dark Oda simply has not revealed him in the light yet. Mihawk should not be discussed in battles and it is my fault for bringing him up we just do not know what he is capable of. Maybe he can slice chunks of the earth, or maybe he is simply weak and just another hyped up character that does not live up to expectation, who knows. Mihawk should not be talked about in any battles. We should be talking about characters we have seen fight. Like Crocodile vs. Ener, Ace, Smoker, and Aokiji.

This is all we know of Mihawk little information.

Mihawk: Strongest Swordsman In The World, has The Greatest Sword In The World, A Shichibukai Pirate, Rivaled Red - Haired Shanks.

That is all nothing on his skills. So lets end the Mihawk thing and talk about characters whio we have seen fight because it is unfair to Mihawk.

[neodrag38]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Let's just end this discussion Mihawk has not displayed any techniques or skills at all. In other words we have not even seen him fight all out like Ener. Having Mihawk vs. any opponent is unfair towards Mihawk, now Mihawk should not be discussed in battles because he is simply a mysterious character like Shanks, he is still in the dark Oda simply has not revealed him in the light yet. Mihawk should not be discussed in battles and it is my fault for bringing him up we just do not know what he is capable of. Maybe he can slice chunks of the earth, or maybe he is simply weak and just another hyped up character that does not live up to expectation, who knows. Mihawk should not be talked about in any battles. We should be talking about characters we have seen fight. Like Crocodile vs. Ener, Ace, Smoker, and Aokiji.

Whoa. This has to be someone else typing that in.

This is all we know of Mihawk little information.

Mihawk: Strongest Swordsman In The World, has The Greatest Sword In The World, A Shichibukai Pirate, Rivaled Red - Haired Shanks.

That is all nothing on his skills. So lets end the Mihawk thing and talk about characters whio we have seen fight because it is unfair to Mihawk.

...Whoa. Really, this is one helluva of a show of being a big person about things. It's moments like these that makes this all truly enjoyable.

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by neodrag38

Whoa. This has to be someone else typing that in.

...Whoa. Really, this is one helluva of a show of being a big person about things. It's moments like these that makes this all truly enjoyable.

Yeah because It was an injustice to what I was doing to Mihawk. We should not be having this conversation right now but later on when we know a little more about him.

Oh by the way thanks nh1, and ninraven for a little support, even though I was getting double teamed by Neodrag and Slayerx it's all good I like it.

Without me this forum would be kind of boring.

[Illuyankas]

Certainly less contentious, but not nearly as entertaining

[Phenomenal]

Originally Posted by Illuyankas

Certainly less contentious, but not nearly as entertaining

Illuyankas I bring excitement and chaos, as the phenomenol it is my job to do so.

Now In a couple of posts ago Illuyankas, you said that Smoker used his Seastone stick against Ace. Which is absolutely false because he clearly said a battle between fire and smoke is completely useless and Ace knew this. Smoker did not use his stick at all. Show me where in episode 95 he used it. It was just a battle between fire and smoke.

[Illuyankas]

I can show you in the episode, as I haven't watched it, I've only read the manga. But, he's wearing it when he starts to fight Ace in Chapter 158, and it's Ace who says "You may be smoke, but I'm fire; your powers don't stand a chance against mine!". So I'd think a seastone staff would be a better weapon for Smoker than his powers.

Incidentally, when Smoker follows Luffy up that building by turning into smoke, how does his staff do the same?

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Illuyankas

Incidentally, when Smoker follows Luffy up that building by turning into smoke, how does his staff do the same?

It probably has something to do with the fact that the sea stone is only located in the very tip of the staff... so the samll amount of sea stone doesn't seem to effect him atall when he uses his power... as long as he doesn't touch the tip he's fine

Alright, on to a new discussion

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Now In a couple of posts ago Illuyankas, you said that Smoker used his Seastone stick against Ace. Which is absolutely false because he clearly said a battle between fire and smoke is completely useless and Ace knew this. Smoker did not use his stick at all. Show me where in episode 95 he used it. It was just a battle between fire and smoke.

Now this i would not be too sure about... we didn't see him use it, and we didn't see him not use it... Since we did not see the fight, we can not say either is true for certain; right off atleast... while its true that its not actually said whether or not Smoker used his staff we can take too things into consideration...

first, you can notice that when Smoker and Ace square off smoker is wearing the staff on his back, and yet the next time we see smoker after their fight, the staff is not on his back anymore... this either means that the staff was somehow takenout of the fight, like either Smoker used it and it got knocked out of his hands, or he tossed it off for soem reason... or it could just mean Oda got a little lazy and forgot the staff in those few panels... this first point isn't that important

Second, there's the question as to why WOULDN'T Smoker use the staff... Smoker is drop dead serious in a fight and he doesn't pull any punches... He's not the kind of honorable fighter that would duel a fighter on even terms... He would not just make it a pure battle between Smoke and Fire, especially when he realizes the fight will be a rather even one... he was prepared to try and capture Ace when he first ran into him at the resturant, and he prides himself on his ability to capture nearly every pirate he comes across... I can't see any reason at all why he would not use his staff in a fight against Ace

And how did ace escape even though Smoker had Seastone on his side? probably because Ace knows how to keep his distance with his flames... Add in the confusion of massive amounts of smoke and fire, and Smoker is probably gonna have a hard time reaching and touching Ace's actual body with the staff

[yamato_D]

Incidentally, when Smoker follows Luffy up that building by turning into smoke, how does his staff do the same?

yeah i thought the same thing when i read the manga. i think we're just taking the story too seriously. it wasn't really a crucial thing, and mangas do tend to defy the laws of science.
by the way, during the Alabasta Arc, were the straw hats and smoker trapped in a sea stone cell? because i always wondered why smoker couldn't have just, well turned into smoke and escaped. or did he not want to leave luffy's sight?

[Illuyankas]

I always thought that the effects of seastone were projected from the stone itself, working on fruit users in close proximity to it, as well as in contact with it. That would be why Smoker has it on the end of a long staff instead of on a truncheon or something, to be farther away from him.