Actually yes it is over. You haven't been paying much attention to the interviews if you think that it only applies to the movie verse. It was advertised as the end of the triangle. And even if you do ignore the movie you have Yoshino who was responsible for the tv series who outright said that Alto was more interested in Sheryl than Ranka.
THAT was clear from the beginning. It was clear to me that the only way Alto can end with Ranka is
Spoiler for Duh:
Sheryl dying.
Sheryl is simply stronger. But a THREESOME is not out of question, series-wise, and there were strong hints at that, too.
Spoiler for Series:
Alto not turning down Ranka
in the tv series was actually Yoshino's idea, in fact the entire last episode was Yoshino's idea.
Alst episode also had
Spoiler for series:
Sheryl not dying plot. Without this episode, she would die and Ranka would win by default.
I, in fact was anticipating this for series (see below).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233
Shouldn't you wait until you actually see the movie before you say this?
And again shouldn't you wait until you see the movie before you pass judgment on it?
Note that I DO NOT judge the movie as a whole - only the ending. And for ending, there are enough spoilers around to decide. In fact, I do like many elements from the movie (based on what I heard, of course). That said, I have seen way too many stories with good start and botched ending (BSG2003 anyone?) and generally think such stories are not satisfying - but THIS question I truly cannot decide without seeing it first.
Quote:
Sheryl is more like the way she was at the end of the tv series.
Spoiler for O Really?:
In a COMA??? Facing being locked in for the rest of her life??? What is good in that?
Spoiler for Another Story Variant:
Quote:
This isn't the only universe in which Sheryl has "won" though. A lot of the official side material, such as the shoujo manga focusing on her, has also paired her up with Alto. I can't imagine Kawamori would have given the go ahead for an implied sex scene in the light novels either if the entire point was to keep things "triangular". If it was just a matter of wanting to keep sides balanced, then it would have been easy enough to give Ranka similar treatment in the side material that focuses on her.
Yes, and in THAT manga Sheryl is killed. How comes Sheryl "winning" and her dying / almost dying coincide so much? Can't Kawamori have her win (which I do prefer), and live happily (which is more important to me), like it should be?
Now to the question of Series Ending vs. Movies Ending:
Spoiler for Comparison:
Quote:
Originally Posted by karice67
I wasn't around when the series aired, but I've gotten impressions that people were annoyed that, amongst other things
(a) Alto wasn't decisive enough, and
(b) Ranka saving Sheryl was a huge deus ex machina
BUT...people still complain when the writers address these issues in the movies...
I give up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magnuskn
But as for the writers addressing concerns from the series, I don't think I ever heard anyone complain that the series was, y'know, not tragic enough in its
resolution of the romance. So it feels a lot like the writers mindset was "So you are pressuring us into resolving this perfect ( in their minds ) triangle?
Take that, fans! Now nobody of the three mains gets a happy ending! Mwahahaha!".
Exactly. Well, actually movie being bittersweet COULD be good. Note first that having a character die is not the same as having her survive and then being killed in an adaptation. But even then, Sheryl dying in the movie would make sence, PROVIDED Alto survived and could be happy with Ranka. I actually anticipated this near episode 22 of the series , then Sheryl got healed and we got unresolved triangle. And the movie could well go like this - Sheryl is sucked into space, and bye! This would be bitter, but good! I would find this a WORTHY ending - Sheryl dying to give way to AruRan; old idol dies, new takes his place. Compare the first "Kiss in the Galaxy", where this happens with Lilith and Sheryl - it IS a good plot, and recreating this with Sheryl and Ranka would be nice, and a great ending.
The series, in fact, was close to this, but then chickened out - that annoyed many. This DID feel like sugar sweet "nobody important ever dies" ass-pull, and it would be a good thing to remove it. I WAS prepared for movie NOT chickening out, the ending being "Alto and Ranka happily together visiting Sheryl's grave". This would make a GOOD dual to series.
But the actual ending is simply irritating and unsatisfying. Sheryl is for a LONG life in coma, which is arguably worse than death. The (b) point could actually be addressed by Ranka saving Sheryl via transfusion with Sheryl actually waking up, you know. The triangle is destroyed (I can't call this "resolved" ). Note that Sheryl's coma (or her death) at that point don't do any good story-wise - Ranka is still heartbroken. Why couldn't Kawamori let Sheryl wake up, once he decided that she would survive?
Oh, and the "Galaxy" is still out there! They WILL do something next, and we never find out what! Like I said before, this movie is a Sequel Hook - except without sequel in sight.
Quote:
The movie incarnation of Sheryl Nome and Ranka feels foreign to me I feel they are different characters
Personally, I now prefer to think that the MF movies were created by some Lucas wannabe, who over-dramatised the second part of his trilogy, then the third
part got cancelled . At least that means the the series ending stands, so we can enjoy
Spoiler for realistic combinations:
Aru/Sherry , Ran/Sherry and AruRanSherry
stories .
And Yes, I feel sad. I was so anticipating the movie, hoping for a great resolution - and then we get this. The movie is probably still good, but the great finale would need another ending...
I seriously want to use the 'indifferent' emoticon, but I shall refrain from doing it.
Spoiler for Spoil manga:
Please tell me you did not expect the main character (in technicalities) of the manga to be killed off before the very end. (especially in Shoujo, where girls magically are safe and sound even though a shot goes through heart.)
'Cause you know... She's still alive and well by the latest released chapter. (Oh and the last chappie will be included in the tankoubon format. I didn't see it in this month's series lineup either. So no one knows what the heck will happen.)
Still, methinks the currently bitter maggy might squee at this since it said that the ending will be different than the movie and TV series. /coughmoneybettingatshoujoendAxScough/ In the end, the manga is kinda spin-off of possibilities for the movie version imo.
The moral of the story this time, do research first before, y'know, putting your info on and claim things
Bah, caught a fever AGAIN. ;-;
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Last edited by Natsuki Hyuga; 2011-03-27 at 20:38.
Reason: Smiley, wry did you diasppear with my net cuting up in posting?!
Sheryl won't wake up when she's starting to stir in the movie ending? Bzuh?
If anyone's fate looks grim, it's Alto's.
Also, she was locked up by Leon. I assume she's clear from all charges, considering Leon is a villain. Could someone who watched the movie confirm this?
Also for Sheryl manga...
Spoiler for off topic:
Sheryl is not killed in the manga! She awakes in a hospital bed after the incident, doesn't she? The assassination attempt was in volume 2! The series didn't end there.
Do you honestly believe a manga that's about Sheryl Nome would focus on Alto/Ranka? Ranka has more 'romantic' moments with her brother than with Alto. Promotional posters and images are very telling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233
That's the thing it seems more like the girls were joking but Kawamori wasn't.
Yep this... Can we say episode 24 ending, anyone?
__________________
"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"
THAT was clear from the beginning. It was clear to me that the only way Alto can end with Ranka is
Spoiler for Duh:
Sheryl dying.
Sheryl is simply stronger. But a THREESOME is not out of question, series-wise, and there were strong hints at that, too.
I can't say the movie isn't this because I haven't seen it, but at the same time neither have you. Your just basing your opinions on a summary given by someone else.
Quote:
Spoiler for Series:
Alto not turning down Ranka
in the tv series was actually Yoshino's idea, in fact the entire last episode was Yoshino's idea.
Alst episode also had
Spoiler for series:
Sheryl not dying plot. Without this episode, she would die and Ranka would win by default.
I, in fact was anticipating this for series (see below).
Can't really say that because no one knows just what was the originally planned ending for the tv series. Though in the case of the tv series, I can't really say that Ranka would have won the love triangle if Sheryl died, because she had problems when it came to communicating with Alto, without Sheryl there to help her.
Quote:
Note that I DO NOT judge the movie as a whole - only the ending. And for ending, there are enough spoilers around to decide. In fact, I do like many elements from the movie (based on what I heard, of course). That said, I have seen way too many stories with good start and botched ending (BSG2003 anyone?) and generally think such stories are not satisfying - but THIS question I truly cannot decide without seeing it first.
And how can you do that when you haven't watched the events leading up to it? You say that Sheryl's character is weaker and yet you don't know whether or not her behavior or the events that would make her have that sort of behavior. I can't say whether or not the ending is botched because I've only seen the tv series ending, and I very well can't pass my judgment on the movies ending based on that because the circumstances are different.
Quote:
Spoiler for O Really?:
In a COMA??? Facing being locked in for the rest of her life??? What is good in that?
Spoiler for movie:
She's not in a Coma until the very end of the movie, to say that she is to be gravely mistaken because your statement doesn't even match the summary of the movie.
As I've only seen the first movie I can say that Sheryl's attitude in the first movie was the same as it was in the last couple of episodes. I can't really speak for the second movie, and neither can you as you haven't seen it yet.
Quote:
Spoiler for Another Story Variant:
Yes, and in THAT manga Sheryl is killed. How comes Sheryl "winning" and her dying / almost dying coincide so much? Can't Kawamori have her win (which I do prefer), and live happily (which is more important to me), like it should be?
And it seems your wrong about that too.
Quote:
Now to the question of Series Ending vs. Movies Ending:
how can you compare something based only on the summary of the movie? You've only gotten to the first movie and you've read summaries of the second one, and needless to say summaries are bound to not include every little detail. Based on that alone your comparison is very weak as you're essentially complaining about a movie you never saw. Reading a summary about a movie is not enough to help you with your opinions, as summaries do not include all of the events, dialogue, or even the characters behaviors both around each other and alone, it doesn't even tell you 50% of the actual story.
I seriously want to use the 'indifferent' emoticon, but I shall refrain from doing it.
Spoiler for Spoil manga:
Please tell me you did not expect the main character (in technicalities) of the manga to be killed off before the very end. (especially in Shoujo, where girls magically are safe and sound even though a shot goes through heart.)
'Cause you know... She's still alive and well by the latest released chapter. (Oh and the last chappie will be included in the tankoubon format. I didn't see it in this month's series lineup either. So no one knows what the heck will happen.)
Still, methinks the currently bitter maggy might squee at this since it said that the ending will be different than the movie and TV series. /coughmoneybettingatshoujoendAxScough/ In the end, the manga is kinda spin-off of possibilities for the movie version imo.
The moral of the story this time, do research first before, y'know, putting your info on and claim things
I disagree with this 100%! Ranka isn't the ONLY one who had issues communicating with Alto, especially in life or death situations. SHERYL hid her disease and - like I said above - EXPECTED him to help her. He always looks lost as HELL!
If Sheryl wasn't around, Ranka would be able to communicate better with Alto. Who is there whenever Ranka gets her foot in the door to his heart? Sheryl! So if she's out of the picture, I image that it would be easier for her to open the door to his heart, as there wouldn't be an (don't take offense AruSherri fans) annoying idol following him around whenever Ranka goes with Alto.
Well consider this for one second The only time that Sheryl and Alto didn't really communicate was when Sheryl purposefully didn't want Alto to know something (that she was sick). They were normally on the same page for about anything.
If it wasn't for Sheryl then Alto would have tried to kill Ranka. If it wasn't for Sheryl, Alto and Ranka would have never met. It was also the others who urged Alto to with Ranka even before he gained an interest in Sheryl that way, but he wasn't showing an interest.
Meanwhile Ranka went on believing in the tv series that a staged kiss meant something, that a staged flight performance was a declaration of love, that Alto always saved her when he never does, and even then its never just him, someone always helps out. Ranka's crush on him was built and cultivated by misunderstandings, and assumptions by both parties.
Ranka had Alto's phone number she could have called him to spend time with him, even just as friends, heck Nanase even told her to do as much, but Ranka did absolutely nothing. In episodes 13-18 Ranka was in the prime position to actually try to win Alto's heart (in a chance given to her by Sheryl's illness and Michael's insistence which Alto was reluctant to take mind you), but she never did anything. Sheryl had nothing to do with any of those moments, those misunderstandings were only between Alto and Ranka. Besides Alto had a choice to stay away from Sheryl, but instead he sought her out.
The first movie should have clued you in Alto and Ranka had been friends for an unknown amount of time before and yet they were still stuck in the friend category with Alto not thinking of her in that manner, heck Sheryl had to point it out to him, and when she didn't he didn't even react. If he hasn't noticed her in that manner the entire time that they've been friends then he will never notice her.
Quote:
Um, [SPOILER="Sheryl"]I will say that the possibility of her waking up from the coma is slim. I mean, we cannot take one stir to her waking up, as it could be something more serious. I had a person I knew was in a coma and she had a stroke... died... it was sad.
Comas are serious illnesses.
Anime =/= Real life one shouldn't apply real world logic in anime, especially anime made directed, and written by Kawamori.
Quote:
I DO agree that Sheryl is always close to dying when she wins the triangle.
TV series: deathly ill, Ranka leaves, Alto finally pledges himself to Sheryl AFTER her learns she's dying, she nearly dies, magically cured by Ranka
Movie verse:
Spoiler for finale:
finds out she's deathly ill, Alto knows but doesn't pledge himself to Sheryl, she nearly dies, comes back (once again magically, but because of Vajra this time), sings herself to death, is confessed to by Alto AS he's dying, she slips into a coma afterwards and might never wake up
She is ALWAYS nearly dying when Alto confesses love to her, which is why I cannot see the AruSherri being the ending, as it brings too many memories of his mother - and I mean PAINFUL ones! I am left to think that
Spoiler for Alto to Sheryl and Ranka:
his confessing in both series was out of PITY and not his TRUE feelings. Then again, he DOES love Sheryl, just probably not as a lover. And Ranka is the healthy one. Looking at the finale again, I can tell he wanted to spare her the misery. His face was so melancholy too...
The TV series ending was Yoshino's idea so don't look into it too much, especially considering his reasons making the ending the way he did. Though you even he made it clear that Alto's feelings for both girls wasn't equal.
I don't think that Alto's feelings for Sheryl are based solely on his feelings for his mother, specifically because of how fast their relationship went before the last couple of episodes. And even then you could just say he likened them to one another because he realized that he was going to lose Sheryl, another person that he loves.
Quote:
Oddly enough, I find this to be funny.
The person who wrote "Kiss in the Galaxy" is NOT Kawamori, nor related to him; just his ideas. The writer put out what she wanted to but Kawamori also supported it. So it is not HIS plot. So it being recreated in the movie verse is a stupid comparison to make.
The writer was commissioned to write the manga, then Kawamori goes over it to make sure that he agrees with it. That's what it means to be an official material in a franchise.
What you're thinking of is a doujinshi, which is completely different.
Quote:
Spoiler for for comparision:
Slightly, I agree with this in the fact that nothing is every truly established for the couple like it was in the series. There is no kiss, nothing; just a confession, which could easily be seen as friendship. Honestly, in most bittersweet movies, especially with Macross Zero, there is something romantic that PROVES his love for her - a kiss or hug, even tears before death; but the movie fails in this. And so, I don't see this as the solution of the triangle but the destruction of the triangle and the friendship they all shared.
I mentioned that before, that Galaxy was still out there. But that is why there is that "what if" label stabled on it. The ending is like the "Star Wars" movies of 1970. You are meant to figure out what becomes of the Frontier fleet on your own.
You never saw the second movie, how can you go around drawing conclusions to a movie you've never seen. You say you're not passing judgment yet your doing it right now, hypocrite much? Besides that I think you need to look up basic japanese. Japanese people don't tell their friends that they love them, at least not by using that particular word.
Thinking Sheryl is weaker than Ranka... Although I think both are equally strong movie wise, but in the TV series, this is hilarious.
Spoiler for off topic:
Moments of weakness:
Sheryl: Oh no! I lost my fame, my ship-home, my manager and I'm dying without hope to be cured.
versus
Ranka: Oh no! Alto is hugging Sheryl! It hurts so much that I want to die!
Seriously, yo... Ranka's arc was painful considering all her big choices led her to become the Damsel in Distress in a helpless way. The main problem was to display her Alto-centric feelings. What tormented her in the end seemed that she couldn't reach him and she had a one sided love which (in light of a war) appeared slightly distasteful. Because she was foiled by someone who had real problems... Sheryl was tormented that her life was going to end, whatever love they shared would be futile. They had no future together. She had no future.
Could Ranka be as strong as Sheryl? Sure, I believe it (Sheryl is like her idol figure). If they (writers) let her grow up (what they did in the movieverse, IMO). I'm excited to see Ranka in action in the second movie, since all my expectations were met by the first. I can't help but to like Ranka a lot. She's a Taurus like me. :P
They should have made more emphasis on her pain with the connection with the Vajra... besides her feelings, you know?
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags
Spoiler:
Slightly, I agree with this in the fact that nothing is every truly established for the couple like it was in the series. There is no kiss, nothing; just a confession, which could easily be seen as friendship. Honestly, in most bittersweet movies, especially with Macross Zero, there is something romantic that PROVES his love for her - a kiss or hug, even tears before death; but the movie fails in this. And so, I don't see this as the solution of the triangle but the destruction of the triangle and the friendship they all shared.
Spoiler for spoiler:
It's not friendship. It's a love confession. You don't say "aishite-" or whatever was cut to a good friend, you say "daisuki yo".
Of course they didn't kiss or hug. They were apart. But does it really matters? Sheryl and Alto went far beyond the second base in the TV series. The way I see, the movie had to spell it OUT to put an end to the so called "ambiguity." Since apparently, the fact that they lived together as lovers in the tv series before Sheryl put an end to it (at Alto's protests) wasn't obvious enough. Idk how it played in the second movie to make another judgment.
__________________
"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"
Thinking Sheryl is weaker than Ranka... Although I think both are equally strong movie wise, but in the TV series, this is hilarious.
Spoiler for off topic:
Moments of weakness:
Sheryl: Oh no! I lost my fame, my ship-home, my manager and I'm dying without hope to be cured.
versus
Ranka: Oh no! Alto is hugging Sheryl! It hurts so much that I want to die!
Seriously, yo... Ranka's arc was painful considering all her big choices led her to become the Damsel in Distress in a helpless way.
Could Ranka be as strong as Sheryl? Sure. If they let her grow up (what they did in the movieverse, IMO). I'm excited to see Ranka in action in the second movie.
Correction it was...
Sheryl: Oh no! I've lost my fame, my home, my manager who raised me since I was seven and now doesn't care about me, I'm dying and there isn't a cure, and to top it off I've been replaced by the very same girl that I've encouraged. Despite that though I don't resent her. And I'm gonna keep singing despite my loses, even if I die!
vs.
Ranka: Oh no! Sheryl and Alto are hugging, after I saw the flight stunt he did and took it as a declaration of love, even though it was staged. But I'm gonna go run away with Ai-kun for some badly thought out inexplicable reason, be tricked by Grace using my badly thought out plan against me, and be a damsel in distress who was used as a weapon against my home in the last episode. But don't worry someone will save me!
While I can say that first movie Ranka is more independent, can sing on her own and therefore is stronger than TV series Ranka.
However movie Sheryl is going through a completely different situation from tv series Sheryl, and even tv series Ranka (though there are similarities), as she is an outsider, who isn't being allowed to enter any inner circles, though she hasn't done anything to deserve such treatment.
I have looked up basic Japanese. It is normal for that. Hell, we use the same term every day with family and even friends. "Aishiteru" is a universal term for "I love you." Quite honestly, quite a LOT of people use the term towards friends.
...I have studied the language during six years and taken two levels in the Nihongo Nōryoku Shiken so far (this year I'll take the next level)...
__________________
"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"
Hmmm, I'm picking up sockpuppets and fail troll wannabes here. :-) In other news, I'm still waiting, quite impatiently in fact, for this gigantic Arusherri wedding scan that was released in Macross Ace, as well as news about Brera's sexy chest. Oh my...!
Hmmm, I'm picking up sockpuppets and fail troll wannabes here. :-) In other news, I'm still waiting, quite impatiently in fact, for this gigantic Arusherri wedding scan that was released in Macross Ace, as well as news about Brera's sexy chest. Oh my...!
I'm with you here, cheesie. Better than going off with people going through the stages of grief (stagnantly still in the denial phase.)
Hmmm, I'm picking up sockpuppets and fail troll wannabes here. :-) In other news, I'm still waiting, quite impatiently in fact, for this gigantic Arusherri wedding scan that was released in Macross Ace, as well as news about Brera's sexy chest. Oh my...!
Is that the one darkplataform posted with Alto still wearing his pilot outfit? He should have been the blushing bride to bridegroom!Sheryl.
__________________
"Who would understand you after I die? Who else would march forward by your side?"
English speaking people, dear.
There aren't a lot of AruSherri fans around since the movie's release that speak in English or live in a place that does. Japan, I wouldn't count it, as you EXPECT Japanese people to be obsessed; after all, the movie is FOR them, it's their country.
It was clear to me that the only way Alto can end with Ranka is 
Facing being locked in for the rest of her life???
How comes Sheryl "winning" and her dying / almost dying coincide so much? 
Can't Kawamori have her win (which I do prefer), and live happily (which is more important to me), like it should be? 
). Note that Sheryl's coma (or her death) at that point don't do any good story-wise - Ranka is still heartbroken. Why couldn't Kawamori let Sheryl wake up, once he decided that she would survive? 
. At least that means the the series ending stands, so we can enjoy 
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