One Piece - Chapter 884 [manga]

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by Gintokifan22

Than you guy's would complain how Luffy and his crew would win his fights against the big shots like Big Mom crew or Kaidou ( Which they are going to fight next)

Oh well, I'm enjoying it. Just wish we didn't have to deal with subplots with Sanji during the fight whatever. At least Oda's not on a break.

FYI

It seems like every series does a time skip fans complain about the poor quality writing and pacing, Naruto or Bleach or now Dragon ball super. Not saying I enjoyed good portion of those but noticed a trend over the years.

Exactly! I don't have a problem with the fight, but the stagnant subplot really puts a sour taste in my mouth.

Perhaps we have been holding Oda to such high standards that now we are being overcritical. But that's the point, Oda has shown time and time again that he can write a concise arc with good pacing.

However, after the timeskip, everything just seems to move slowly with a bunch of subplots that aren't that significant. Zou is the only arc that didn't have much unnecessary plot points.

And last but not least, we all knew Sanji is an excellent chef, among the best of the best, but cooking for Big Mom as the supposedly "climax" of the current arc is just, IMO, redundant.

[marvelB]

Geez, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Luffy using the Punch-Out strategy against Katakuri! Like Luffy looks for an opening to hit Katakuri's belly to make his scarf fall down as if they were King Hippo's shorts, lol. That probably won't happen, but a guy can dream, at least....

I still think the CoC strategy is a potentially valid idea, though. Of course, that would depend on whether or not Luffy's CoC is strong enough to affect Katakuri to some capacity. If it could stun him for even the slightest moment, then that's all the opportunity he'd need to lay the smackdown on the commander, if you ask me...

[Ramero]

Originally Posted by danielevo

Its like Oda lost in touch to make one piece insteresting in this modern era with so many new anime and manga.. For me one piece before time skip is much funnier, historical and interesting than after timeskip.. Its like different person making one piece.. The anime is boring too.. Its more childish than before timeskip.. Its like Oda cant express what he really want to express, maybe because of his illness too i dont know.. Its like Oda era end with Whitebeard death.. One think i hope is i want to see one piece ending before the world end..

Originally Posted by Hujan

Indeed OP after they set out to New World from Sabaody archipelago, they became less ineteresting (I still think the false Starw Hat arc is good). maybe it is because the war with Marine is soo goood that make the next less interesting. I mean in War with Marine, there is a little filler in it while if we compare with Caesar Clown or Doflamingo arc, there is many thing that can be cut out (I mean there is 1 chapter just for 10 second count down in Doflamingo).
but at least it is still better than Bleach after Aizen arc.

I'm quite agreed with that and we also barely seen any comic relief or any funny things around this arc. It seems it has lost it touch after Punk Hazard. In my view itself, there are no Zoro vs Sanji which is the best comic relief for at least two years. I do hope there are further funny moment though upon reunion on Wano or maybe this is just a warm up or a spices for the main ingredients.

[itachi-san314]

Originally Posted by marvelB

Geez, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of Luffy using the Punch-Out strategy against Katakuri! Like Luffy looks for an opening to hit Katakuri's belly to make his scarf fall down as if they were King Hippo's shorts, lol. That probably won't happen, but a guy can dream, at least....

Hahaha! Way to reference King Hippo

[Clipens]

Actually there are various parallels totta land's storylines:
- Brulèè in the Mirroland;
- Thousand Sunny;
- Nostra Castello;
- Germa Kingdom;
- Candy Sea Slug;
- The "sweet factory" (it's a mirror of Dressrosa's factory);
- Pedro's soul and body;
- Mont d'Or's group;
- Caesar;
- CP0, Morgans and others.
When Oda focuses only in Luffy's battle the story results boring because we miss the other storylines.
This chapter is spoilering a future "return on Fishmen Island arc": the betrayal of Jinbe, the capture of all territorial slugs and the Tamatebox's incident are moving Big Mom's rage toward the Fishmen's race...

[marvelB]

BTW, I meant to bring it up earlier, but I wonder if Sanji will be the one to face Oven? I mean, he still has to wait several hours for the arrival of Luffy's group/Big Mom by the time he finishes preparing the cake, and even if he, Pudding, and Chiffon are patient.... that may not hold true for Oven. He might decide to invade the bakery if he becomes suspicious of his sisters, and if so.... Sanji would be the best candidate to hold him off, methinks. After all, putting aside the Straw-Hats, who knows how long it would take for Capone or Germa to arrive as backup? And seeing as Sanji hasn't had a decent fight in quite some time (at least, a fight that he's won, anyway), Oven might be a good match-up for him. At least, Oven and Daifuku seem to be the strongest ministers after the sweet commanders/Perospero, so I'd say they're deserving of a decent boss fight. And while it's true Sanji had some trouble against Daifuku earlier, at the time he was also focusing on rescuing his family, so I doubt he gave it his all back then. Things should be much different now that he's in a clearer state of mind.....

[Kanon]

I hope Sanji will fight somebody strong too. I can't remember the last time he had a proper fight. It's his arc after all, it's already nice that he'll get to shine thanks to his cooking skills, but it'll be even better if he gets a good fight to showcase his true strength.

[Jmariofan7]

Originally Posted by Ultragunner

Exactly! I don't have a problem with the fight, but the stagnant subplot really puts a sour taste in my mouth.

Perhaps we have been holding Oda to such high standards that now we are being overcritical. But that's the point, Oda has shown time and time again that he can write a concise arc with good pacing.

However, after the timeskip, everything just seems to move slowly with a bunch of subplots that aren't that significant. Zou is the only arc that didn't have much unnecessary plot points.

And last but not least, we all knew Sanji is an excellent chef, among the best of the best, but cooking for Big Mom as the supposedly "climax" of the current arc is just, IMO, redundant.

Please clarify on these supposed "insignificant subplots" that you mentioned, you do realize that almost every subplot connects together, right?

Also none of the previous arcs had Sanji cooking as the climax, are you sure you're reading the same series? Especially since this whole arc was about food, and it has been established for a while that Big Mom has a dangerous eating disorder.

Originally Posted by Hujan

My problem with time skip in One Piece is actually not about SH Pirates itself but about Eleven Supernova, that without Training for 2 years, they become as strong as or less stronger but not too much with Straw Hat Pirates. like Urouge that had the smallest bounty in 11 Supernova but can beat one of one of Big Mom's Four Sweet Commanders.
the plot too, are like dragging (or maybe not dragging, still the same pace as before but it is just Oda health issue and many hiatus which make it like more slower).
But Oda still had his touch on Character development, look at Pudding.
I, now, waiting One Piece just to see Sanji and Pudding.
I am glad with this chapter because there is Sanji and Pudding in it. XD

The Return to Sabondy and Fishman Island arcs didn't feature the Supernova's, and Law didn't show up until around the middle of the PH arc, also Law's significance had more to do with the fact that he was a D carrier rather than a supernova, and in the Whole Cake Island arc Bege didn't become a significant focus until around the halfway point, and even then his plan didn't work and the focus has gone back to the Strawhats and Big Mom, also just to clarify the Supernovas weren't Oda's original idea, it was the SJ editors that had them put in, so that probably extended things a bit.

Originally Posted by Tommy

I still enjoy One Piece, however I do think that the series has been going for so long that Oda often uses recycled ideas/themes (not sure if it’s intentional) that can make the story feel redundant. I actually don’t mind the baking, let Sanji flex his culinary muscle to take advantage of an opponents weakness.

If you're talking about Dressrosa, it's similarities to Alabasta WAS THE POINT, Dressrosa is supposed to represent what would have happened to Alabasta if Crocodile succeeded, it was clearly alluded to in-dialogue several times, and it irritates me that people don't get this.

You know I'm getting real tired of not being able to go one chapter without people on these forums complaining for the sake complaining because they're too impatient for the chapters release, the only reason people are complaining is because they can't binge watch/read One Piece back when they first started viewing the series, that and anime slowing things down to the point where it's just pretty much just one chapter per episode and can't speed things up like other anime do such as the Attack on Titan anime (the third season is even most likely going fit in almost 40 large chapters into it) people are just angry they can't watch a faster paced version of the OP manga on television, the pacing of the manga hasn't really been dwindling it's been the same since the start, there were people who were complaining since before the timeskip that started reading it earlier.

Also how are the subplots pointless? The series isn't even finished yet so to say subplots aren't going anyway is premature, lot's of things in One Piece have gone somewhere.

Originally Posted by marvelB

Okay, fixed up the summary a bit! Anyway, as far as the criticisms go, personally I don't feel the series has declined, but it's definitely clear that Oda's been rushing things a bit since the skip. I already noticed it during the mermaid island arc (I still feel the Fisher Tiger flashback should have been a bit longer than what we ultimately got), and Oda himself even confessed that he combined island ideas in order to save time. For instance, Punk Hazard was originally going to be two separate islands of fire and ice, and the Tontatta dwarves' island of Green Bit originally wasn't meant to be a part of Dressrosa at all. So in that regard, I can see where the complaints are coming from since the rushing of plots would make it difficult for Oda to bring out the story's full potential. I still have faith in him, though! I'm definitely enjoying the current arc (especially since it's the first time we're seeing Luffy and co. finally test their abilities against a Yonkou's forces), and for all the build-up we've had for the Reverie and Wano..... well, at least I feel it's safe to assume Oda won't disappoint with those major events.

I don't see how combining islands count as rushing, it's a clever way to pace things, and neither of those examples came off as rushed.

[Jmariofan7]

Originally Posted by Hujan

but at least it is still better than Bleach after Aizen arc.

Oh great another one of these, people need to stop acting like the Arrancar arc was so great, it's the series weakest arc, and Aizen from the moment he was introduced was an overrated god-moder (pre-Hogyoku) whose constant smug smirking and overly long gestures got dragged out for far too long long (Ichigo should have at least landed one hit on Aizen at the end of the SS arc), the Fullbringer and Final arcs where better.

Also I'm just going to make this clear, you have nobody but yourselves to blame for Bleach's downfall, with all the constant whining and latching onto characters who don't deserve it (the Gotei 13, it did nothing but fuel the SJ editors to constantly rush and interfere with Tite Kubo's work, not to mention the fact that Kubo had a bad arm since starting and around the halfway point he got a really bad cold sickness that wouldn't go away.

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by Jmariofan7

The Return to Sabondy and Fishman Island arcs didn't feature the Supernova's, and Law didn't show up until around the middle of the PH arc, also Law's significance had more to do with the fact that he was a D carrier rather than a supernova, and in the Whole Cake Island arc Bege didn't become a significant focus until around the halfway point, and even then his plan didn't work and the focus has gone back to the Strawhats and Big Mom, also just to clarify the Supernovas weren't Oda's original idea, it was the SJ editors that had them put in, so that probably extended things a bit.

I dont mean Supernovas as focus, but what I complain is about the strength.
They without Training can became as strong as Straw Hat Pirates, it mean actually Straw Hat Pirates doesnt Training, they can became strong as well. it is not abou focus but their strength, like Urouge just appear when they introduce Kaidou, but in Big Mom Arc, there is someone that said Urouge manage to beat one of 4 Sweet Commander. IF the others without training can became as strong as SH Pirates, then SH Pirates too, actually without Training can became strong as hell too.

Originally Posted by Jmariofan7

Oh great another one of these, people need to stop acting like the Arrancar arc was so great, it's the series weakest arc, and Aizen from the moment he was introduced was an overrated god-moder (pre-Hogyoku) whose constant smug smirking and overly long gestures got dragged out for far too long long (Ichigo should have at least landed one hit on Aizen at the end of the SS arc), the Fullbringer and Final arcs where better.

Also I'm just going to make this clear, you have nobody but yourselves to blame for Bleach's downfall, with all the constant whining and latching onto characters who don't deserve it (the Gotei 13, it did nothing but fuel the SJ editors to constantly rush and interfere with Tite Kubo's work, not to mention the fact that Kubo had a bad arm since starting and around the halfway point he got a really bad cold sickness that wouldn't go away.

I think you misinterpret my post. I said that One Piece after 2 years is better than Bleach after Aizen Arc. I used that as comparison because I think both is a pivotal point in the story when in OP, they start Training for 2 years (Timeskip) while in Bleach, Ichigo lose his power and IIRC it is timeskip too right?

and IMO (maybe you had different opinion but well...) in both series, the story in each chapter (mostly) feel dragging. although I can still understand about OP but in Bleach case, because it is Final Arc, I think the story can be condensed with just important part, so the battle will be more intense (I stop reading after Ichigo training with gotei 0 ??) and many side character appear here and there as more focus in the story. I dont blame the Author for it, but I blame the editor, Author job is just to write story, while Editor job is to give advice so the story can be accepted and be loved by fans.

about Sanji and Oven, I agree that maybe Sanji will facing Oven, but how about His Sibling? Germa 66? will we finally see Super Sentai/Power Ranger as complete with 5 people from 0-4 ?! and they will call a Giant Robot to Facing Big Mom?? Lol.

[The Small One]

Originally Posted by Hujan

I dont mean Supernovas as focus, but what I complain is about the strength.
They without Training can became as strong as Straw Hat Pirates, it mean actually Straw Hat Pirates doesnt Training, they can became strong as well. it is not abou focus but their strength, like Urouge just appear when they introduce Kaidou, but in Big Mom Arc, there is someone that said Urouge manage to beat one of 4 Sweet Commander. IF the others without training can became as strong as SH Pirates, then SH Pirates too, actually without Training can became strong as hell too.

Well it's not like surviving on the Grand Line isn't like training, but actually I completely agree with you on this matter.
The fact, that all the other Supernovas progressed to the same degree than the SHs makes the whole timeskip kind of unnecessary. Why keep of from the world's stages and concentrate only on training, if the exactly same progress would be made anyways?

I would expect the SHs to be significantly stronger than those characters, who didn't concentrate on training, but instead they are about the same strength…


But all in all this story isn't about power, it's about adventure.

[danielevo]

I agree with Hujan.. There are so many part of the story is non sense and Oda is like trying to accelerate the storyline of OP, so it make the story look weird and boring.. The battle also not intense for me, even dressrosa battle.. And what dissapoint me the most is Yonko Kaido.. The strongest enemy in one piece is crying like a kid and act like a kid.. That point is lower my expectation about the future battle.. The character building also not deep and not interesting.. Moreover is the anime, i dont know how dissapoont i'am with one piece anime right now.. I even skip many part when i watch it..

I dont know why, maybe i already become an adult right now, so my expectation is become high too, OP look funny when i still senior high school and right now im working.. Haha lol

[Hujan]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Well it's not like surviving on the Grand Line isn't like training, but actually I completely agree with you on this matter.
The fact, that all the other Supernovas progressed to the same degree than the SHs makes the whole timeskip kind of unnecessary. Why keep of from the world's stages and concentrate only on training, if the exactly same progress would be made anyways?

I would expect the SHs to be significantly stronger than those characters, who didn't concentrate on training, but instead they are about the same strength…

I, also hope that SHs to be significantly stronger than Supernovas

But all in all this story isn't about power, it's about adventure.

Then, isnt it more reason to NOT training, because they stop adventuring for a while in the pursuit of Power. lol.

Originally Posted by danielevo

I agree with Hujan.. There are so many part of the story is non sense and Oda is like trying to accelerate the storyline of OP, so it make the story look weird and boring.. The battle also not intense for me, even dressrosa battle.. And what dissapoint me the most is Yonko Kaido.. The strongest enemy in one piece is crying like a kid and act like a kid.. That point is lower my expectation about the future battle.. The character building also not deep and not interesting.. Moreover is the anime, i dont know how dissapoont i'am with one piece anime right now.. I even skip many part when i watch it..

what I want to complain about Kaidou is how he is lost over and over again, but we dont know to whom, I mean although He is lost many time, he is still Yonkou right?! isnt Luffy also lose many time before he win?! like in Crocodile, Arlong (although because of stupid reason), Doflamingo, and etc.

I dont know why, maybe i already become an adult right now, so my expectation is become high too, OP look funny when i still senior high school and right now im working.. Haha lol

That's right, this is the problem (is it a problem?!), for a Long shounen series, for example I am disappointed with Naruto ending, I hope Sasuke to die, but again when Naruto end, I am in college, If I use perpective of myself when still in middle or High school, I think I wont complain about Naruto ending.
a Long Shounen Series is still Shounen Series even the old fans had became Seinen, right? and between Children, Teens, and Adult, had different way of thinking (Psychology).

[marvelB]

As far as the supernovas' progress is concerned.... honestly, it doesn't matter if they didn't train during the skip, because the point is that none of them were anywhere near close to conquering the New World by the time Luffy and co. entered the stage. In fact, we already know several of them spent time planning and forming alliances.... they didn't just sail around and raise hell all the time (though there was that some of that too, of course.... they wouldn't have become known as the "Worst Generation", otherwise). I mean heck, how many of them even possess a Road Poneglyph, or happened to befriend the samurai clan whose ancestors created those very stone tablets in the first place? None of them prior to the Punk Hazard arc, I think it's safe to say.

Originally Posted by Jmariofan7

I don't see how combining islands count as rushing, it's a clever way to pace things, and neither of those examples came off as rushed.

I mean "rushed" in the sense that, as I mentioned before, Oda probably couldn't bring out the full potential those arcs may have had had were they to remain separate islands due to cutting/re-purposing ideas. I mean, Dressrosa could have been a completely different beast had it not included the Tontattas in the mix, would you not agree?

BTW, there was something else you mentioned that I wanted to address:

Originally Posted by Jmariofan7

also just to clarify the Supernovas weren't Oda's original idea, it was the SJ editors that had them put in, so that probably extended things a bit.

Actually, the supernovas WERE Oda's idea. It's admittedly been a while since I saw the source, but basically the story was that at the time Oda was starting the Sabaody arc, he already planned the Straw-Hat separation with his editors, but they felt focusing on JUST that would have made the arc too short. Thus, Oda decided to introduce some new rival characters as an interesting way to lengthen the arc, spent literally a SINGLE NIGHT designing them all, and thus, the supernovas were born! Heh, I still find it impressive even now that Oda came up with so many distinctive characters overnight.... he probably had the idea of those guys cooking in his head for quite a while before actually bringing them to life....