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Old 2020-03-13, 11:45   Link #241
coded321
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^The dow dropped 8k pts in less than one week. Trump once tweeted, during the obama admin of course, that a president should be impeached if the dow ever dropped 1k pts during their administration. So Democrats are now justified to impeach him again right?

EDIT:Sorry guys, i learned this tweet is fake. Leaving it here for veracity.

Last edited by coded321; 2020-03-13 at 22:36.
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Old 2020-03-13, 14:11   Link #242
Cloudedmind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaden View Post
People still go to malls? But yeah, schools are shutting down all over Europe right now, and the face-to-face kind of service industry is likely to follow. Expect the same in America. Current bets are on whether Amazon will cease deliveries...
Highly doubtful. In fact this is one of those instances where deliveries are actually likely to go up, as more people stay home.
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Old 2020-03-13, 14:34   Link #243
ramlaen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coded321 View Post
^The dow dropped 8k pts in less than one week. Trump once tweeted, during the obama admin of course, that a president should be impeached if the dow ever dropped 1k pts during their administration. So Democrats are now justified to impeach him again right?
The DOW dropped 4k in the first week, recovered slightly the second week and another 2k (edit: nice rally today) in the current week. Please don't make this thread a house of lies.

Since you mentioned that tweet, tell us what happened that it was a response to.

Last edited by ramlaen; 2020-03-13 at 15:05.
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Old 2020-03-13, 17:29   Link #244
coded321
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Alright, I'll admit it, even though I know you will never let this go, I 100% fell for fake news. And i know you're going to use this to dismiss anything I ever say again despite your own amount of utter BS, but I'm willing to admit when I'm deadass wrong when I'm called out on it, so thank you for pointing out my stupidity. And I'm leaving that post up so people know that I fell for and spread fake news so they dont commit my mistake
Still doesn't change the fact that the greatest single day drop since 1987 was caused in large part by trump's blatant incompetence and ineptitude. The coronavirus is still here and still spreading and it's not going to be ending anytime soon. The 2k upturn today merely shows the market is volatile right now, and heavily depends on trump not screwing up in the coming months. Despite all this, your post shows the same pattern we always see with trump and the stock market. when the stock market is up, its thanks to trump. But when it goes down, it is never his fault.
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Old 2020-03-13, 21:30   Link #245
ramlaen
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Originally Posted by coded321 View Post
And i know you're going to use this to dismiss anything I ever say again
Do you want me to or is this projection on your part?

On an unrelated note, never let a crisis go to waste.
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Old 2020-03-14, 01:15   Link #246
coded321
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Ah, go for it, i deserve it. it'll motivate me not to make the same screw up and be a moron next time. On that note, this is how trump had been talking about the coronavirus till now.

This continuously poor response focused on downplaying the pandemic, combined with the lack of testing, his continued, unsuccessful attempts to cut funding to the cdc, his attempts to cut funding for numerous health programs, his failure to set up a concrete plan for a pandemic, his failure to reform the disbanded pandemic team in 2018, his appointment of Mike "pray the HIV away" Pence to lead the response team to the pandemic, etc all helped create the thing wall street hates most, uncertainty, greatly contributing to the crash on Wednesday and Thursday. Ironically, this in turned likely scared trump into actually taking the pandemic seriously on friday, instead of doubling down like he usually does. Even if its just BS, it was enough to reassure investors enough for the rally we saw. unfortunately, what we saw today could just be a dead cat bounce, so what happens next depends on trump's ability or inability to handle the crisis. as you can tell, i don't have a lot of confidence in him.
Let's move this to the coronavirus thread if you still want to continue this.
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Old 2020-03-14, 01:34   Link #247
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But never let a crisis go to waste am I right?
No shit. Every political actor under the sun will use the crisis to their advantage. Did you just realize this or something?

But context is everything when assessing specific political actions during the crisis.

e.g. Joe Biden in your linked article. While he's using the crisis, he's not doing anything he hasn't done before. If anything what he's doing is par for the course in politics no matter how shit it is (even though I'd rather he didn't; the Sanders campaign would've released a much better ad).

The caveat of course is that behind the video manipulation, the Trump administration's handling of the virus is internationally recognized as being complete shit. So the spirit behind the criticism is still valid.

YouTube
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

And that quote you've repeated twice now is just being used and abused. The underlying insight should be the following:

Quote:
In a sprawling, contentious democracy, competing interests suspend their antagonisms only when they have to confront an alarming common threat.
Quote:
In the world of business we are often guilty of not challenging the norm; we are instead satisfied with following procedure and tradition. It takes insight and not a little courage to question your leaders as to why are things done the way that they are? However, in times of crisis there seems to be more latitude to do so – management in fact is actively seeking input it seems. Leading companies nowadays recognise this and cultivate a more open, questioning climate within the office at all times because a degree of continual review is healthy within a business.
i.e. Conservatism needs to be set aside in times of crisis.
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Last edited by OH&S; 2020-03-14 at 03:25.
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Old 2020-03-14, 10:06   Link #248
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Conservatism needs to be set aside in times of crisis.
Free movement and no borders will assist the containment of a pandemic after all, travel bans are just being racist.
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Old 2020-03-14, 10:49   Link #249
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Close, but not quite- that's what I'd call political conservatism. The kind of conservatism that needs to be put aside is the idea of "this is how we've always done things" and "It's worked before, so it'll work again". Meaning that old, outdated ideas need to be cast aside in favor of information and resource sharing so that all of humanity makes it through this and maybe becomes better off.
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Old 2020-03-15, 21:59   Link #250
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I think it is safe to say Bernie blew his last chance.
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Old 2020-03-15, 22:35   Link #251
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Originally Posted by ramlaen View Post
I think it is safe to say Bernie blew his last chance.
He showed everyone watching that debate that Joe Biden is a blatant liar on par with Trump. That's on par with Elizabeth Warren shredding Bloomberg.
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Old 2020-03-15, 23:02   Link #252
coded321
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^sadly it doesn't matter anymore. CNN refused to fack check any of biden's lies and biden himself was somewhat lucid enough for once. On Twitter I'm seeing Biden bros applauding biden for being so "presidential" while bernie is seen as unhinged or too mean. This debate isn't going to change anything. The only hope now is that bernie forces biden more to the left, and force biden to stop lying and own up on his record.

Last edited by coded321; 2020-03-15 at 23:46.
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Old 2020-03-16, 01:00   Link #253
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I was reminded of something, although I don't remember the debates back then to know how they compare to now. Basically, in 2008, Obama was behind Hillary by even more than Bernie is behind Biden right now. Everything now depends on people getting to vote. Will Biden's elderly base decide that the virus is too lethal and thus give Bernie the edge for young people showing up, or will the trend of young people not showing up continue? Granted, the biggest difference is although Bernie has great ideas, Obama had charisma... and charisma is one of the strongest skills in this particular area.

Unfortunately, as much as I want to hold out hope... even after his mangled response to the current situation and the possibility that thousands or even millions might die because of him... there's a feeling Trump will still win, because people have both very selective memory and short-term memory.
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Old 2020-03-16, 01:17   Link #254
coded321
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There is good news and bad news.
Good news is that we're about to enter a recession tomorrow that's going to badly screwup the economy and that will give someone like biden a better chance in november.
The bad news is that we're about to enter a recession tomorrow that's going to badly screwup the economy.
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Old 2020-03-16, 03:58   Link #255
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Originally Posted by Magin View Post
I was reminded of something, although I don't remember the debates back then to know how they compare to now. Basically, in 2008, Obama was behind Hillary by even more than Bernie is behind Biden right now. Everything now depends on people getting to vote. Will Biden's elderly base decide that the virus is too lethal and thus give Bernie the edge for young people showing up, or will the trend of young people not showing up continue? Granted, the biggest difference is although Bernie has great ideas, Obama had charisma... and charisma is one of the strongest skills in this particular area.

Unfortunately, as much as I want to hold out hope... even after his mangled response to the current situation and the possibility that thousands or even millions might die because of him... there's a feeling Trump will still win, because people have both very selective memory and short-term memory.
That's absolutely not true about 2008. Obama won Iowa, and then lost New Hampshire (where he was well ahead in the polls) but after South Carolina had a small but steady delegate lead (largely due to his dominance in caucus states) which he never relinquished.
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Old 2020-03-16, 05:48   Link #256
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Unfortunately, I confess that my source for the numbers disappeared... either that, or it was before last Tuesday where the numbers came from. Anyways, the statement was that this time in 2008, Hillary was leading Obama by over 200 points; Biden is only leading Sanders by about 150.
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Old 2020-03-16, 06:17   Link #257
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And that is factually incorrect, as I said. Obama won three of the first four contests (only losing New Hampshire) and by the time South Carolina's delegates were apportioned he was ahead by about 40 delegates and never trailed after that.
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Old 2020-03-16, 06:39   Link #258
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Technically, not true... mostly because of what appears to be a bunch of major fuckery with the 2008 primaries. Although he won SC, he would then lose the next two in both Michigan and Florida. However, I also see that those two particular primaries had a lot of screwing around with the rules going on.

It all comes down to, do I think Biden has a better shot? Unfortunately, yes. But I refuse to give up hope for Bernie until a winner is officially declared.

EDIT: Actually, I'm going to get REALLY technical. Clinton won the second "Super Tuesday", Pennsylvania, Indiana, West Virginia and Kentucky. So it's not quite true that Obama won everything after Super Tuesday.
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Last edited by Magin; 2020-03-16 at 06:52.
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Old 2020-03-16, 07:42   Link #259
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No, and no one ever said he did. He did, however, have the lead in delegates and never relinquished it after SC. Super Tuesday itself was a fairly even split - but while Clinton won more popular votes (because she did better in primaries) Obama won more delegates and increased his lead. But while he never trailed, he never got to a majority either - it took the superdelegates to put him over the top.

As for Michigan and Florida, their primaries were held in defiance of DNC rules and the party ruled that their delegations wouldn't be seated at the convention. As such, neither candidate contested those states and they were considered "beauty contests". It was only after the nomination was decided that the party voted to apportion their delegates and seat them - so as not to piss off two important states (FL was considered the ultimate battleground state at the time) and because it didn't impact the result.

None of this is opinion - it's history. It happened, and you can look up the numbers. it's not remotely similar to where the race is now and in point of fact, Biden is going to end up netting at least another 200 delegates on Tuesday anyway because he has huge leads everywhere but AZ (where the latest polling has him "only" +20). It's over whether anyone likes it or not.
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Old 2020-03-16, 08:20   Link #260
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It's not over until a candidate drops or all states have had their primaries. I will keep saying that Biden looks good, BUT I understand that there's still 53% of delegates to go. Which is still the majority. Again, it's all about who shows up to the polls from here on.
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