[Manga] Chapter 504 Discussion

[Bombo]

Heavy touch
The last page is EPIC EPIC EPIC...I can't belive this arc make me tear for it .
So sad and happy ...I hope we see the new naruto....!!! "I wish tbh"
Now i want the damn madara die asap .

[Alchemist007]

T_T chap.

Guess it's to make Naruto more epic.

[SeanQ]

Still...even if naruto masters kyuubi...isn't it still useless if madara/sasuke is the end boss...
*Sharingan stare*
Naruto: Oh no...all that training, and the kyuubi is useless...

[james0246]

Originally Posted by SeanQ

Still...even if naruto masters kyuubi...isn't it still useless if madara/sasuke is the end boss...
*Sharingan stare*
Naruto: Oh no...all that training, and the kyuubi is useless...

It is entirely possible that by separating the Kyuubi's hatred from its chakra, Naruto now has the ability to use the chakra without the Sharingan being able to interfere.

[ArtCp]

This chapter just goes to show what an bitter person I have become. The one thing I concentrated on was how Minato was spouting of self-righteous lines about the village. And excuse after excuse was being made.

I understand that both Kushina and Minato loves him very dearly and of course didn't want this life for Naruto, but wasn't it someone besides me who thought all the justifications for sealing Naruto to be hollow?


"He is the destiny's child..." - Maybe, but you forced him to take that mantle.

"I can't find a substitute for you" - Naruto can't find a substitute for his parents either.

"We are a family of shinobi" - Yes thats very cool, now go make your child a human sacrifice for the safety of the village.

"You know the pain of growing up without a home" Yes, maybe Kushina knows that. But you don't, just as you don't know how it will feel for Naruto to be a Jinchuuriki.

*Takes cover and hides from Minatofans *

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by ArtCp

This chapter just goes to show what an bitter person I have become. The one thing I concentrated on was how Minato was spouting of self-righteous lines about the village. And excuse after excuse was being made.

I understand that both Kushina and Minato loves him very dearly and of course didn't want this life for Naruto, but wasn't it someone besides me who thought all the justifications for sealing Naruto to be hollow?


"He is the destiny's child..." - Maybe, but you forced him to take that mantle.

"I can't find a substitute for you" - Naruto can't find a substitute for his parents either.

"We are a family of shinobi" - Yes thats very cool, now go make your child a human sacrifice for the safety of the village.

"You know the pain of growing up without a home" Yes, maybe Kushina knows that. But you don't, just as you don't know how it will feel for Naruto to be a Jinchuuriki.

*Takes cover and hides from Minatofans *

Those were not the main reasons if you read carefully. The two main reasons are Madara and the balance of tailed beasts.

First Minato names Madara as the main evil guy (so much for the theories about Sasuke being the last evil boss), the one who will bring destruction on the world. If Minato does not secure the kyuubi then sooner or later Madara will find it and use it. Kushina could offer only to die along with the kyuubi, but that is only delaying the reemergence of the kyuubi, which then will be free and thus will be most likely captured by Madara.

The other reason is political, it is believed in the Narutoverse that a tailed beast is an important asset for a village, if they lose it then other villages may decide to attack them thinking that they have become weak. Which means that by Kishimoto's logic these tailed beasts are stabilizing the world order. So if Konoha loses the kyuubi then the other villages may decide to attack them and many will die in a war even if the 4th hokage is alive (Minato already lost Obito by that time in the last ninja war).

[DragoZERO]

I teared up a little...so beautiful.

[ArtCp]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Those were not the main reasons if you read carefully. The two main reasons are Madara and the balance of tailed beasts.

First Minato names Madara as the main evil guy (so much for the theories about Sasuke being the last evil boss), the one who will bring destruction on the world. If Minato does not secure the kyuubi then sooner or later Madara will find it and use it. Kushina could offer only to die along with the kyuubi, but that is only delaying the reemergence of the kyuubi, which then will be free and thus will be most likely captured by Madara.

Yes, the Kyuubi couldn't have been destroyed with Kushina. But why couldn't for example Minato be the host while transfering Kushina's chakra to him instead of Naruto?

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

The other reason is political, it is believed in the Narutoverse that a tailed beast is an important asset for a village, if they lose it then other villages may decide to attack them thinking that they have become weak. Which means that by Kishimoto's logic these tailed beasts are stabilizing the world order. So if Konoha loses the kyuubi then the other villages may decide to attack them and many will die in a war even if the 4th hokage is alive (Minato already lost Obito by that time in the last ninja war).

Yes I know that the balance would be destroyed and Madara gaining the Kyuubi is an disaster that had to be avoided. But why did it have to be Naruto?

I thought at first that it was because he had inherited his mothers special charka, that they simply didn't have any choice in sealing anyone besides him. Turns out this wasn't the case.

It's because Minato presumed he would be this great child of destiny who would bring peace to the ninja world. That was his main justification for sealing Naruto in my opinion.

And thats why I made some pretty rude remarks before about his behavior.

[Cub-Sama]

Considering all the sealing techniques that Kushina presumably taught to Minato he didn't really have to use Shiki Fuuijin, there should've been other methods like the sealing the Shukaku in a pot they could've just sealed the Kyuubi in a tree until they could find a more long-term solution.

[DragoZERO]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Considering all the sealing techniques that Kushina presumably taught to Minato he didn't really have to use Shiki Fuuijin, there should've been other methods like the sealing the Shukaku in a pot they could've just sealed the Kyuubi in a tree until they could find a more long-term solution.

But he had to die for the sake of characterization and plot.


And I am pretty sure that pot was special. You can't seal that amount of chakra into just anything.

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by DragoZERO

But he had to die for the sake of characterization and plot.


And I am pretty sure that pot was special. You can't seal that amount of chakra into just anything.

You're right it was a tea pot. If it can contain tea then of course it can contain the concentrated chakra of a part of a beast that threatened the entire world. It makes perfect sense.

Btw in my previous post I didn't mean any tree I meant MAHOGANY!!!

[Lunarskylar]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Was I the only one that didn't really like this chapter? It just seemed like Kishi giving a BS excuse for why Minato and Kushina wasn't there for Naruto. Minato came up with the stupidest reason to use the dead demon seal "Instead of being there for Naruto most of his life I'm going to sacrifice my life so you can have 5 more minutes". Is basically the logic behind the excuse Minato gave.

IMO it was retarded, it would've gone better for me if Kushina wasn't able to help at all and was just lying there, then there would've been more of a reason for Minato to use Shiki-fuujin.

Originally Posted by kitten320

I seriously don't get from where people got that NaruSaku was ruined by that fake confession
So what if he got a bit mad and told her to wake up and stop lying? Like if normal couples in real life don't argue. If small argument was the end of it all and feelings, there would be no families.

So yeh, I never saw how that confession had ruined everything and now Kishi had only incresed the NaruSaku flames. As far as I remember Naruto had fullifiled everything that was told him so far...

So yeh, NaruHina fans are probably boiling from anger

I've told you that confession alone did not make NaruHina 100% official and I was right




But I'm confused about one things... did Minato really had to use that seal? I kinda found his reasons to be stupid unless I didn't understand them fully.

i think the reason that's being overlooked is madara's desire for the kyuubi
he just revealed to minato that he still has other plans to get the fox back to destroy the village and the world
so even if minato just sealed the fox in naruto, would that be truly successful in foiling madara? Considering who madara might be, and everyhting he just accomplished in under an hour, it would be foolish to think so.
So by using the dead demon seal, he eliminates a good portion of the kyuubii's power, which makes it less of a threat if madara ever reclaims it
i think that would be the only reason to show the kyuubii decreasing in physical size in that panel, to exemplify its decrease in both power and threat
so by sacrificing his life, minato is further protecting all of konoha in case madara strikes again
from how i see it, by sacrificing his life, he made a decision to be a bad father,
butif he made the decision that allowed him to live, he'd be making the decision to be a bad leader

[Ashaman]

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama

Considering all the sealing techniques that Kushina presumably taught to Minato he didn't really have to use Shiki Fuuijin, there should've been other methods like the sealing the Shukaku in a pot they could've just sealed the Kyuubi in a tree until they could find a more long-term solution.

They were also under a time limit. Kushina was quickly fading and the Kyuubi was breaking free, even after being weakened by the death god seal.

You expect them to find a more suitable place to seal it under such short notice? The whole thing? When it took a very powerful seal to properly seal a weakened version.

It wasn't just one reason; there were loads of different reasons all piling atop one another. Madara, Kushina, Kyuubi, Balance of Bjuu.

[Lunarskylar]

what also comes into question is what's the kyuubi's power in relation to the other bijuu? Is it extremely more powerful than like the hachibi, or just slightly more?
Im wondering how much if the world even knows that half the kyuubi's power has been lost, considering that akatsuki still thinks that sealing the kyuubi before the rest of the bijuu would destroy the statue
can it still do that in its half powered state?
And finally what would naruto's jinchuriki powers be like if he had the full kyubii?
Like would his two tail state be as strong as the four tail state we know of right now? And would his four tail state have the power to break pain's chibaku tensei like his half powered 8tail state did?

[Alchemist007]

The real #1 reason that Minato sacrificed himself as well: he wants to keep hittin dat ass in the afterlife. Srsly.

[Wargumm1i]

OMG lol "Kushina takes up all the time allocated, by telling Naruto to find a woman like herself ), then they die.."

That had Sakura written all over it.

[madv2c]

I don't see how the Naruto x Hinata flame can still be alive. Hinata practically confessed Naruto was her everything, and she loved him madly 30 chapters ago... yet nothing happened? There has been no development, they barely even talked to each other afterwords. If that doesn't say "rejection", i don't know what does; i'm sure Hinata got the message.

Sakura and Naruto have been portrayed as friends since the beginning, i doubt Sakura will ever care for him in that way, plus this is a kids show. >_>

[Shiryuu]

Finally it's over. Now let's get back to Sasuke's adventures.

And they shouldn't really even be worried about Madara's plan anymore. Kyuubi isn't complete so there's no way to complete the plan. The jyuubi moon will probably turn out blind or have a lazy eye.

[Alchemist007]

Originally Posted by madv2c

Sakura and Naruto have been portrayed as friends since the beginning, i doubt Sakura will ever care for him in that way, plus this is a kids show. >_>

Kushina didn't really give a crap about Minato till he rescued her in a way no one else recognized (the red hair trails). I'm thinking the equivalent could possibly be beating Pein. Kid shows still have pairings, take a look at DB/DBZ. Hell this goes even deeper as far as details go.

[Artimus_Prime]

Originally Posted by Ero-Senn1n

Those were not the main reasons if you read carefully. The two main reasons are Madara and the balance of tailed beasts.

First Minato names Madara as the main evil guy (so much for the theories about Sasuke being the last evil boss), the one who will bring destruction on the world. If Minato does not secure the kyuubi then sooner or later Madara will find it and use it. Kushina could offer only to die along with the kyuubi, but that is only delaying the reemergence of the kyuubi, which then will be free and thus will be most likely captured by Madara.

The other reason is political, it is believed in the Narutoverse that a tailed beast is an important asset for a village, if they lose it then other villages may decide to attack them thinking that they have become weak. Which means that by Kishimoto's logic these tailed beasts are stabilizing the world order. So if Konoha loses the kyuubi then the other villages may decide to attack them and many will die in a war even if the 4th hokage is alive (Minato already lost Obito by that time in the last ninja war).

i agree with this assessment, however, i cant help but think theres a little bit more to this story...at first read, Minatos explanation just sounded really weak, and i couldnt help but think, he has a deeper plan.

in chap 501 pg15 after minato saves kushina from the fox attack, we see kushina ask "why?" minato says "nevermind why." at the start of chapter 504 we see kushina exclaim "our son...thats why! im not entirely sure what this "why" is but even though the dead demon seal was justified, he seemed to rush right to it. i guess i just think that we will see Minato and that other half of the 9 tails chakra before the end of this manga...