2013-03-07, 00:44 | Link #581 |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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I think Rand Paul would be more effective if he had the rest of the Republican party promise that THEY would never target US citizens with drones on American soil.
That would be a policy difference. But I doubt Rand would be able to get that promise out of his own party.
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2013-03-07, 00:52 | Link #582 |
formerly ogon bat
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Mexico
Age: 53
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Reaaly?
- In 2005 over 10% of Switzerland's households contained handguns, compared to 18% of U.S. households that contained handguns. In 2005 almost 29% of households in Switzerland contained firearms of some kind, compared to almost 43% in the USA. If you give it a check I think you will label said country as liberal due to its gun laws. |
2013-03-07, 00:53 | Link #583 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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I'm rather happy my senator (Wyden - Democrat) supported a lot of the points Rand was making.
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...er=rss&emc=rss The only problem I have with Rand's filibuster is that if we had a Republican administration? This would have sailed through without a whisper. 2000-2008 gave us some of the most egregious laws and policies on the books relating to citizen privacy, treatment of prisoners, detainment without cause, and other chainsaw attacks on civil liberties.
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2013-03-07, 04:33 | Link #584 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
Why haven't they? Why aren't Fox news parading GOP politicians with each declaring they would never allow it in a GOP presidency? Why only Rand Paul? Who isn't mainstream and is not considered the face of the GOP? I know the answer, sadly. And that is they are not opposed to it, they just want a Republican president to be the one giving orders.
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2013-03-07, 04:57 | Link #585 |
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Hamburg
Age: 54
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Lord knows that I'm not the typical GOP defender, and I do agree that under a President Romney, Paul would most likely have not filibustered, but still... I think most of the blame lies with Obama here. Sorry that I have to say so. Let's not deflect this justified criticism on the GOP here.
This is the aspect of the Obama administration that I'm seriously disgusted with: o Total amnesty for torture and any other war crime investigations o Merciless persecution (not mere prosecution) of whistleblowers concerning war crimes, particularly towards Manning o Warrantless targeted assassination of people with no regard for "collateral damage" Seriously, when Holder gave the response that the American president could kill Americans on Americans soil via drone attack, I was laughing incredulously. It demonstrates how far the "war on terror" has already polluted the mind of America. Due process? Not anymore. One line of defense after the other is falling before the folly of the "unitary executive" theory. Then again, already around half of Americans now openly support torture, too. "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither and will lose both", to quote Ben Franklin. What more is there to be said? |
2013-03-07, 05:11 | Link #586 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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What was the line in the past? "Mistakes were made."
No matter who is at the wheel - you *WANT* due process. The instant someone is claiming there isn't time - that's when you *WANT* due process. This is utter bullshit and it seems to be infecting factions in both parties.
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2013-03-07, 05:14 | Link #587 |
Le fou, c'est moi
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA
Age: 34
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Obama's security record is indeed one of the major contentions between him and his left-wing "base" (not that's he's actually left-wing, but that's another story).
The failure to close Guantanamo stands out as the biggest breach of promise in his Presidency after his 2008 election campaign. Some would defend the President as having other legislative battles to fight and therefore little "credit" to put towards trying to go against the consensus of the powerful Washington foreign policy establishment and its many Congressional allies. On the other hand, the President barely even tried to fight, not to mention his conviction on this issue is in doubt in the first place, and most of all it doesn't change the fact that the government of the United States did not return an inch of ground it took since the betrayal that was the Patriot Act. The mighty United States, I am "happy" to say, remains as self-absorbed and "pragmatic" as ever, and Obama is not the man to challenge the "wisdom" of the Washington policy mainstream, which views certain civil rights as inconveniences to be maneuvered around for the purpose of power policy goals. It's an incestuous atmosphere up there, I'm told, with "smart" people talking with other "smart" people about "real politics" (yes, realpolitik) and geopolitical games and tools of murder, torture, and terror are just "measures" to be employed against opposing forces, while the matter of the domestic front is just a "public opinion field" to be managed and placated. The all-encompassing, all-important principles of human rights are forgotten somewhere along the way. As for Rand Paul's filibuster, Senator Paul's stand here is a position I agree with, and it has drawn GOP support -- but don't kid ourselves, many of them are just playing anti-Obama politics, and would support the very same measure in a heartbeat if it was proposed by them or by a President wearing elephant trunks. But, GOP opportunism aside, Mr. Paul's own integrity will of course remain a question that only he can answer by his future record -- and I hope for a favorable one. His other positions are classic far-right Tea Party GOP though, so don't expect a statesman out of the son of Ron Paul. |
2013-03-07, 06:40 | Link #589 |
Cross Game - I need more
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: I've moved around the American West. I've lived in Oregon, Washington, Utah, and Oklahoma
Age: 44
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I don't even get why Holder said what he did. The drone programs are run by either the CIA or the Military. The rules are pretty clear:
1: The CIA is explicitly forbidden from taking action inside America 2: The military cannot be used inside America except in cases of invasion or open insurrection If Holder had said that who would object? And in what other cases besides insurrection or invasion would it be necessary to use a drone firing a Hellfire missile inside the US? Finally, I don't feel that "Bush would have been worse" is a legitimate means of defending Obama anymore. It's been over 4 years now. Can't Obama stand on his own without blaming Bush for everything?
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2013-03-07, 06:47 | Link #590 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
Rand Paul stuck his neck out, but Fox News has not done their "thing" in having major Republicans declaring they themselves would never support it under a GOP presidency. It's not what Bush would do, but what the GOP would do if they are in charge today or in the future. We all know GOP believe in big government when it comes to the art of war, and they need to declare their positions before I can believe they are actually against the drone program as it currently stands. In short, we are not defending Obama at all. We are just waiting for the GOP to suggest they would do it differently. We are still waiting.
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2013-03-07, 10:36 | Link #591 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: East Cupcake
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As an aside, please drop the Gun Control issue in this thread unless it has something to do with actual politicians or specific bills in Congress being discussed. Focus on politics, not debates concerning gun deaths.
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2013-03-07, 11:58 | Link #592 |
books-eater youkai
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
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House votes to avert shutdown as Obama looks for big deal
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...y.html?hpid=z1
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2013-03-07, 19:29 | Link #593 |
Banned
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Some might be aware that the president bought dinner for 12 Republicans. You might be wondering why. Well, this is why.
Basically, the GOP leadership is creating an image of Obama for their rank and file, lying to them about what Obama has said and offered. It's almost unbelievable. So Obama is taking this moment to honestly talk with GOP senators, and surprising them with what he is actually willing to put on the table. Trying to close the gap between the fake GOP Obama, and the real one. An example: Would it matter, one reporter asked the veteran legislator, if the president were to put chained-CPI — a policy that reconfigures the way the government measures inflation and thus slows the growth of Social Security benefits — on the table? “Absolutely,” the legislator said. “That’s serious.” Another reporter jumped in. “But it is on the table! They tell us three times a day that they want to do chained-CPI.” “Who wants to do it?” said the legislator. “The president,” replied the reporter. “I’d love to see it,” laughed the legislator. |
2013-03-07, 19:53 | Link #594 |
#1 Akashiya Moka Fan
Author
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I don't follow politics too much, because my personal opinion is that it's been reduced to two sides pointing fingers at each other and can't work together to get anything done (insert the joke of "if con is the opposite of pro, then is Congress the opposite of Progress?")
But something that I'm noticing with all the Republican attacks against Obama and their recent measures in subjects that concern women... is it just me, or are they trying to turn back the clock to pre- Roe vs. Wade, or hell, even before Womens' Suffrage? Hell, my pessimism has even gone so far as to entertain the thought that they're trying to do things that would suggest America becomes something like a Dictatorship... or rather, to describe my opinion on this since I don't know the actual term, a society in which the Republicans alone determine everything that happens in the country, and if you're against it, you're wrong and "un-American" (well, maybe not quite that far) Or is that just politics as usual?
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2013-03-07, 19:56 | Link #595 | |
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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In their minds, they look back to the good old days of the "traditional America", whatever that is. If I were to guess, it's a white dominated society, that keeps the minorities down in its place.
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2013-03-07, 22:05 | Link #597 |
Obey the Darkly Cute ...
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ...
Age: 66
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It isn't the GOP specifically as such... but the GOP has a large faction of "conservative zealots" who believe things most of the rest of us call *misogyny* or hold women as lesser human beings or mere cattle.
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2013-03-07, 22:29 | Link #598 |
Banned
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To be more precise... it is just that the GOP draws strength from religious conservatives, who have a strong feeling of "the man is the ruler of the home and the woman is subject to them." Men are simply more important, and should be in charge. That is why Viagra should be free to men, and yet women should not have access to birth control.
And a lot of it is inertia. Once an organization gets going, they have a hard time changing course. Very few are willing to speak out against the status quo. And in this climate of Tea Partiers and ultra-conservatives punishing any "Republican In Name Only" by voting them out, this keeps the reps and senators in line, mostly. You really have the fringe religious nutballs holding the party hostage. |
2013-03-07, 23:13 | Link #599 |
#1 Akashiya Moka Fan
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Of course, my next question is this: at what point did this really become an issue?
My memory when it comes to politics isn't the best, but IIRC, this issue seems to have only really gained momentum within the last 2~3 years... I assume it was always there, but has it actually come to light because now the US isn't concentrating on the war in Irag, and thus can turn its attention to internal matters?
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2013-03-08, 06:35 | Link #600 | |||||
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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Of all the issues to contend with in this country, this one is by far the biggest one to tackle. Everything else (abortion, gun regulation, etc.) are side issues, in comparison. And good luck trying. For reiteration: Quote:
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