AnimeSuki Forums

Urzu 7 · 2006-06-07, 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radd

Eh, we'll see. It would make sense that the Wii version of Zelda would allow for the old style of gamepad. I mean, it's already in the game.

Still, as of E3 I don't see any reason to use the Gamecube pad for Zelda.

You know, to give more options to gamers. If you can provide both options, then good, as generally, more options is a good thing.

Radd · 2006-06-07, 16:51

I meant that I don't see any reason for gamers to use the Gamecube controller on the Wii version of the game. I can definitely see (and even named one or two) reasons why it makes sense for Nintendo to keep the option there.

Dark Sephiroth · 2006-07-31, 12:28

Honestly i don't mind at all if the Wii falls short to the X-360 & PS3 graphics wise. As long as the game itself is compelling enough then i'm all set. I mean, i still happily play FF7/OoT/MM without any complaints. Also i doubt i'm guna go out and pay £1000 for a new HDTV when the one i have is in perfect condition, so the fact that the 360 & PS3 both support it doesn't effect me none so ever.

As for Twilight Princess, hot damn i can't wait =D I've known about this game for quite a while now, and the suspence is guna kill me >>; Wasn't too happy when i heard it comes out with the Wii, whenever that comes out in the UK (too long if you ask me).

Laharu · 2006-07-31, 12:30

All I can say is that I wish it was already out. ;_;

Potatochobit · 2006-07-31, 16:36

this duel release idea seems more and more like a bad joke. july has past and its now august. a final price for the wii hasnt even been set yet, i doubt it will be out before november and they may have what? a hundred units for sale in all of japan before christmas? nintendo is notorious for releasing small quantities of consoles to raise the price of their system even when they promise low prices, then suddenly after the season they flood the market. something tells me GC zelda will get pushed back to next year as well.

Radd · 2006-08-01, 05:23

I'm curious as to your basis for this, Potatochobit.

If their consoles get all bought up quickly and resold in the aftermarket, they don't see a dime of the inflated price tags. All the major console developers are known for releasing fewer units than demand requires at launch, this is usually a case of being unable to produce the consoles fast enough in the gamer rush towards a new console.

Christmas time is also prime season for moving units. It makes no sense at all to purposefully limit your supply, then flood the market late when fewer people are likely to buy it.

As for not being out before November? You mean Zelda, or the Wii in general? That seems hard to believe for me, by all accounts Nintendo is ahead of schedule on production of their console, and likely to only wait until October or so to give developers time to finish up their launch titles.

Honestly, I believe you are giving us an example of the tail wagging the dog. You see few consoles on shelves during a holiday launch season, and blame the console maker. The truth is, they get as many consoles to market as possible, and demand is so high that they get eaten up quickly.

You see more consoles on the shelf after the holiday season and wag, "They've flooded the market now!" When in reality, demand has subsided, and production has finally caught up with that demand.

As far as I can remember, only one console has launched seriously short of the expected supply, and that was the PS2, which had no comeptition, and the shortage only succeeded in building the hype. This won't work if there is competition. If System A is sold out, parents will get their kid System B. And many gamers buy multiple consoles anyway, so they do the same and just buy the console that is there.

As for Zelda being pushed back to next year when the game seems to be done, and Nintendo is ahead of schedule on console production...well in the words of Emperor Zombie, "That's silly!"

Potatochobit · 2006-08-01, 10:55

this is not my opinion radd this is how nintendo handled its console sales for the nintendo 64 and the gamecube. it is based off the information provided mostly by NCSX.com on how units are distributed through the wholesalers. im not sure if you know this, but nintendo lost a huge lawsuit in EU for intentionally inflating prices about 4 years ago.

Benoit · 2006-08-01, 15:33

Quote:

As far as I can remember, only one console has launched seriously short of the expected supply, and that was the PS2, which had no comeptition, and the shortage only succeeded in building the hype.

They had competition. The Dreamcast. Unfortunately, the hype was too strong.

Radd · 2006-08-01, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

this is not my opinion radd this is how nintendo handled its console sales for the nintendo 64 and the gamecube. it is based off the information provided mostly by NCSX.com on how units are distributed through the wholesalers. im not sure if you know this, but nintendo lost a huge lawsuit in EU for intentionally inflating prices about 4 years ago.

NCSX.com got me an import shop with less than stellar web design. Their news mostly consisted of news on the weather and their latest products. Digging through the archive found nothing of interest.

I did a search for this lawsuit Nintendo lost in the EU for price inflation and couldn't find anything on it. Found a really nice site on gaming legal news, though. Do you have any more specific dates on that, or some direct sources?

It still makes no sense to me, unless you're talking about Nintendo artificially inflating the price for retailers who then still have to sell at $200 launch price to the public. That's five flavours of shady, though, and Nintendo really would deserve to lose a lawsuit over that kind of business. I really wouldn't put it past them, either, as Nintendo (like Sony in more recent years) has a history of shady business practices. However, they've had to stop doing that since they have not been the top dog of the gaming industry. (When you're in third place, even if you're still making a profit, you do not screw over retailers and developers.)

Quote:

They had competition. The Dreamcast. Unfortunately, the hype was too strong.

Yup, there was the Dreamcast. It had better graphics and better games than the PS2 did at launch (though the PS2 did eventually outdo the Dreamcast in both departments, just not until much later), but due to several missteps by Sega, and Sony's unrivaled hype machine, it really was not much competition.

Problems arising from the ease of piracy on the Dreamcast would eventually put the final nails in that coffin.

Too bad, too. Dreamcast had some great games.

Onizuka-GTO · 2006-08-01, 21:11

LOLOL

Potatochobit got pwned.

As for that remark on the DC, how unfortunately true, being a DC owner myself, it is still a great party pleaser, even though most people I show it to have no idea what it is but neveraless still find the games a blast, and really adds to the atmosphere.

Potatochobit · 2006-08-01, 22:56

i got pwn'D? are u cerious?

NCSX.com got me an import shop with less than stellar web design

NCSX is probably the most important if not one of the biggest game import shops in america and all the die hard JP gamers purchase from them. sure there are other big game shops that you can import your JP copy of tekken 9, but those type of people are just part of the whats popular masses.

As far as I can remember, only one console has launched seriously short of the expected supply, and that was the PS2

im not sure if you have actually been to a game store in the past two years, but im pretty sure they werent building dioramas out of real xbox360s. im pretty sure they didnt do the same with the xbox a few years ago either.

Urzu 7 · 2006-08-01, 23:27

Potatochobit, Nintendo indicates they will launch before PS3 hits the shelves. They say they will do a world wide launch within a close time frame for all 3 major territories, and I would bet system availibility won't be a problem, being that Wii is definately the cheapest hardware of the three. Making systems availible won't be a problem. If you really want one, preordering a system as soon as they can be will gaurentee you one at launch day, I'm sure.

Also, Nintendo says it intends the dual versions of Z:TP to be availible this year, same day.

Radd · 2006-08-01, 23:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatochobit

NCSX is probably the most important if not one of the biggest game import shops in america and all the die hard JP gamers purchase from them. sure there are other big game shops that you can import your JP copy of tekken 9, but those type of people are just part of the whats popular masses.

Sure, but I don't see how this relates to the thread.

Quote:

im not sure if you have actually been to a game store in the past two years, but im pretty sure they werent building dioramas out of real xbox360s. im pretty sure they didnt do the same with the xbox a few years ago either.

But MS did deliver the number of systems they promised. See my reply to your initial post.

Potatochobit · 2006-08-02, 00:00

But MS did deliver the number of systems they promised

again, im not sure if you realize this, but saying we are going to meet our quota of 300 systems in a world of 5 billion people is just another way of saying we cant make the quota but let me make you feel good about it.

i dont know why you guys figure the dreamcast was competing with PS2. the dreamcast was out way before PS2 and did almost nothing to stop PS2's launch. saying the PS2 had competition again is nothing but hype because the product could not be delivered. granted, the PS2 demand was the biggest for any home console ever i think so of course there will be shortages, thats to be expected.
if you think dreamcast was a failed system you are quite mistaken. the dreamcast was still releasing titles last year.

honestly there hasnt been a single xbox360 on a store shelf at the best buy here in austin texas till late april or may, and then there was only one, maybe two. i was at the store today and they had four or five in now so it seems the system is now readily available. however, taking over 7 months after release to have a product on the shelf is not what i call meeting the quota.

Radd · 2006-08-02, 00:22

You're not going a long way in building credibility for your arguments. I merely stated that in ramping up production of their new console, most developers seem to ship to retailers as many as promised, which is usually a number in the millions. You seem intent on ignoring the fact that console demand, in pretty much every single case, outstrips supply in a big way at the launch of any new console. The immeadiate spike in demand drops after the holiday season, while supply continues to grow.

You seem to have trouble realizing that production is not an immeadiate process. First the production facilities must be completed, then actually making the consoles takes time. In pretty much all cases, actual console production begins only months before the system's launch date. Also, the holiday season is a prime time to launch a system because every gamer, and every parent, is looking for the hot new item. Demand drops sharply after the holidays, again while production continues to increase supply.

As for the lack of 360's at your local stores,m that's more allocation than production. Since launch, there have been tons of 360's collecting dust on store shelves in Japan.

Quote:

quo·ta
1. A proportional share, as of goods, assigned to a group or to each member of a group; an allotment.
2. A production assignment.
3.
1. A number or percentage, especially of people, constituting or designated as an upper limit: a country with strict annual immigration quotas.
2. A number or percentage, especially of people, constituting a required or targeted minimum: a system of quotas for hiring minority applicants.

If Console Maker X says they will release a thousand consoles on launch day, and they do whether or not this fullfills demand they have met their quota. If they release any less than that, then they have failed to meet their quota. I am simply saying that when they state they will release a specific amount of consoles, they do. Nintendo has stated the number of units to be available at the Wii launch, I believe it was the same number that Sony stated they would have available of the PS3 at launch.

And yes, Dreamcast games have continued to be released. This is not indicative of a successful system. Personally, I'd say the Dreamcast failed to compete with the PS2, though more because of the frenzy around the PS2 launch than because of any failings with the Dreamcast itself or its library. Primary support gamer and developer support were both gone fairly quickly after the release of Sony's second console.

Potatochobit · 2006-08-02, 00:48

you say something like this.

You're not going a long way in building credibility for your arguments.

then you say something like this.

Since launch, there have been tons of 360's collecting dust on store shelves in Japan.

right. because we all know xbox360s sell like hotcakes in japan thats why microsoft sent them all there.
BTW, xbox360s are almost sold out in japan. check ncsx.com if you dont believe me and try to purchase one. however, the unavailability is not due to the popularity of the console. i guaantee you this.

anyway arguing over this is silly. so ill end it with this statement.

You seem to have trouble realizing that production is not an immeadiate process.
1. A proportional share, as of goods, assigned to a group or to each member of a group; an allotment.

because the phrase, "not an immediate process" actually means, in your terms, after a product is launched we should start building them and take 3/4 of a year and still not have enough to stock at least one unit in each walmart.

Radd · 2006-08-02, 01:03

I stand by my statements, and I will point out exactly where your logic fails.

There were plenty of 360's collecting dust on shelves in Japan precisely because they didn't sell well over there. Microsoft recieved much criticism on this point, mostly from those who wanted to get their hands on a 360, but found them to be in such short supply over in the west where they have been selling well. If they are no longer sitting over there, then Microsoft is probably realocating them to markets where they will sell, or western gamers are fed up waiting and simply ordering them from Japan.

When I stated that 'production is not an immeadiate process' I meant that Console Developer X does not complete the schematics for their new system, and then immeadiately have 5 billion units sitting ready to sell in their mushroom-shaped magical warehouse in fantasy land, where brightly dressed midgets with point ears and gumdrop hats deliver them by magic flying carpet to Walmarts around the nation.

I put it in fairly simple terms in my last post.

Quote:

First the production facilities must be completed, then actually making the consoles takes time. In pretty much all cases, actual console production begins only months before the system's launch date. Also, the holiday season is a prime time to launch a system because every gamer, and every parent, is looking for the hot new item. Demand drops sharply after the holidays, again while production continues to increase supply.

I honestly can't think of a simpler way to put it than that, so I'll just quote myself in hope that you'll read it this time.

I must say I'm curious as to how you've come to the conclusion that I'm a Sony fanboy.

Radd · 2006-08-02, 01:24

You forgot to remove the 'Y' when deleting the 'You're obviously a Sony fanboy' comment.

Benoit · 2006-08-02, 08:21

Quote:

Problems arising from the ease of piracy on the Dreamcast would eventually put the final nails in that coffin.

I'm aware of the fact that you can make regular CD-ROMs boot on a Dreamcast easily, but I don't recall piracy to ever have been much of a problem.

Potatochobit · 2006-08-02, 22:58

You forgot to remove the 'Y' when deleting the 'You're obviously a Sony fanboy' comment.

yeah, my sarcasm bites sometimes so i must have been editing it while u were making a new post.

whether you believe that nintendo intentionally holds back consoles or not doesnt really matter if you are able to get your console and be happy, just dont believe everything you read that is released from the manufacturers of systems this holiday season. put your money in what retailers and import shops are saying.

2006-06-07, 16:51	Link #42
Radd Just Married, Oct. 28th! Join Date: May 2003 Age: 45	I meant that I don't see any reason for gamers to use the Gamecube controller on the Wii version of the game. I can definitely see (and even named one or two) reasons why it makes sense for Nintendo to keep the option there. __________________

2006-07-31, 12:28	Link #43
Dark Sephiroth Brilliantly Insane Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: London, England Age: 36	Honestly i don't mind at all if the Wii falls short to the X-360 & PS3 graphics wise. As long as the game itself is compelling enough then i'm all set. I mean, i still happily play FF7/OoT/MM without any complaints. Also i doubt i'm guna go out and pay £1000 for a new HDTV when the one i have is in perfect condition, so the fact that the 360 & PS3 both support it doesn't effect me none so ever. As for Twilight Princess, hot damn i can't wait =D I've known about this game for quite a while now, and the suspence is guna kill me >>; Wasn't too happy when i heard it comes out with the Wii, whenever that comes out in the UK (too long if you ask me). Last edited by Dark Sephiroth; 2006-07-31 at 12:56.

2006-08-01, 05:23	Link #46
Radd Just Married, Oct. 28th! Join Date: May 2003 Age: 45	I'm curious as to your basis for this, Potatochobit. If their consoles get all bought up quickly and resold in the aftermarket, they don't see a dime of the inflated price tags. All the major console developers are known for releasing fewer units than demand requires at launch, this is usually a case of being unable to produce the consoles fast enough in the gamer rush towards a new console. Christmas time is also prime season for moving units. It makes no sense at all to purposefully limit your supply, then flood the market late when fewer people are likely to buy it. As for not being out before November? You mean Zelda, or the Wii in general? That seems hard to believe for me, by all accounts Nintendo is ahead of schedule on production of their console, and likely to only wait until October or so to give developers time to finish up their launch titles. Honestly, I believe you are giving us an example of the tail wagging the dog. You see few consoles on shelves during a holiday launch season, and blame the console maker. The truth is, they get as many consoles to market as possible, and demand is so high that they get eaten up quickly. You see more consoles on the shelf after the holiday season and wag, "They've flooded the market now!" When in reality, demand has subsided, and production has finally caught up with that demand. As far as I can remember, only one console has launched seriously short of the expected supply, and that was the PS2, which had no comeptition, and the shortage only succeeded in building the hype. This won't work if there is competition. If System A is sold out, parents will get their kid System B. And many gamers buy multiple consoles anyway, so they do the same and just buy the console that is there. As for Zelda being pushed back to next year when the game seems to be done, and Nintendo is ahead of schedule on console production...well in the words of Emperor Zombie, "That's silly!" __________________

2006-08-01, 21:11	Link #50
Onizuka-GTO Holy Beast ~Wuff!~ Scanlator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Leeds, UK Age: 41	LOLOL Potatochobit got pwned. As for that remark on the DC, how unfortunately true, being a DC owner myself, it is still a great party pleaser, even though most people I show it to have no idea what it is but neveraless still find the games a blast, and really adds to the atmosphere. __________________

2006-08-01, 23:27	Link #52
Urzu 7 Juanita/Kiteless Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: New England Age: 40	Potatochobit, Nintendo indicates they will launch before PS3 hits the shelves. They say they will do a world wide launch within a close time frame for all 3 major territories, and I would bet system availibility won't be a problem, being that Wii is definately the cheapest hardware of the three. Making systems availible won't be a problem. If you really want one, preordering a system as soon as they can be will gaurentee you one at launch day, I'm sure. Also, Nintendo says it intends the dual versions of Z:TP to be availible this year, same day. __________________

2006-07-31, 12:30	Link #44
Laharu mao de makai Join Date: Jul 2006	All I can say is that I wish it was already out. ;_;

2006-07-31, 16:36	Link #45
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	this duel release idea seems more and more like a bad joke. july has past and its now august. a final price for the wii hasnt even been set yet, i doubt it will be out before november and they may have what? a hundred units for sale in all of japan before christmas? nintendo is notorious for releasing small quantities of consoles to raise the price of their system even when they promise low prices, then suddenly after the season they flood the market. something tells me GC zelda will get pushed back to next year as well.

2006-08-01, 10:55	Link #47
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	this is not my opinion radd this is how nintendo handled its console sales for the nintendo 64 and the gamecube. it is based off the information provided mostly by NCSX.com on how units are distributed through the wholesalers. im not sure if you know this, but nintendo lost a huge lawsuit in EU for intentionally inflating prices about 4 years ago.

2006-08-01, 22:56	Link #51
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	i got pwn'D? are u cerious? NCSX.com got me an import shop with less than stellar web design NCSX is probably the most important if not one of the biggest game import shops in america and all the die hard JP gamers purchase from them. sure there are other big game shops that you can import your JP copy of tekken 9, but those type of people are just part of the whats popular masses. As far as I can remember, only one console has launched seriously short of the expected supply, and that was the PS2 im not sure if you have actually been to a game store in the past two years, but im pretty sure they werent building dioramas out of real xbox360s. im pretty sure they didnt do the same with the xbox a few years ago either.

2006-08-02, 00:00	Link #54
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	But MS did deliver the number of systems they promised again, im not sure if you realize this, but saying we are going to meet our quota of 300 systems in a world of 5 billion people is just another way of saying we cant make the quota but let me make you feel good about it. i dont know why you guys figure the dreamcast was competing with PS2. the dreamcast was out way before PS2 and did almost nothing to stop PS2's launch. saying the PS2 had competition again is nothing but hype because the product could not be delivered. granted, the PS2 demand was the biggest for any home console ever i think so of course there will be shortages, thats to be expected. if you think dreamcast was a failed system you are quite mistaken. the dreamcast was still releasing titles last year. honestly there hasnt been a single xbox360 on a store shelf at the best buy here in austin texas till late april or may, and then there was only one, maybe two. i was at the store today and they had four or five in now so it seems the system is now readily available. however, taking over 7 months after release to have a product on the shelf is not what i call meeting the quota.

2006-08-02, 00:48	Link #56
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	you say something like this. You're not going a long way in building credibility for your arguments. then you say something like this. Since launch, there have been tons of 360's collecting dust on store shelves in Japan. right. because we all know xbox360s sell like hotcakes in japan thats why microsoft sent them all there. BTW, xbox360s are almost sold out in japan. check ncsx.com if you dont believe me and try to purchase one. however, the unavailability is not due to the popularity of the console. i guaantee you this. anyway arguing over this is silly. so ill end it with this statement. You seem to have trouble realizing that production is not an immeadiate process. 1. A proportional share, as of goods, assigned to a group or to each member of a group; an allotment. because the phrase, "not an immediate process" actually means, in your terms, after a product is launched we should start building them and take 3/4 of a year and still not have enough to stock at least one unit in each walmart. Last edited by Potatochobit; 2006-08-02 at 22:58.

2006-08-02, 01:24	Link #58
Radd Just Married, Oct. 28th! Join Date: May 2003 Age: 45	You forgot to remove the 'Y' when deleting the 'You're obviously a Sony fanboy' comment. __________________

2006-08-02, 22:58	Link #60
Potatochobit Certified Organic Join Date: Dec 2005	You forgot to remove the 'Y' when deleting the 'You're obviously a Sony fanboy' comment. yeah, my sarcasm bites sometimes so i must have been editing it while u were making a new post. whether you believe that nintendo intentionally holds back consoles or not doesnt really matter if you are able to get your console and be happy, just dont believe everything you read that is released from the manufacturers of systems this holiday season. put your money in what retailers and import shops are saying.