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Old 2017-01-02, 23:03   Link #921
rladls2121
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
From what I understand, this particular season takes place in its own little bubble that's part of a much larger world.
Raaaaaawwwwrrr!!!
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Old 2017-01-03, 08:41   Link #922
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Zefyris View Post
Yes, i've read almost all available content for this work (available in japanese I mean, not in english) and I can confirm you that the way the system works is how I pointed out, so as expected, FA-B lied, hence the contradictions in his words.
Also, he never said " a master". IF you had that as a translation, then the translator made an awkward translation.
To begin with, peoples in charge of recruiting new magical girls aren't even called "masters". The FA-Series mascots call their associated magical girl "master" as it's part of their programming, but that's it. So when FA-B talk about this master thing, he's talking about becoming his next partner, not about becoming a recruiter, as the word used would be completely different.

Clamberry's story is far longer than what you think. Did you notice how she talked when she survived that monster ? She was a child, hence why SwimSwim reminded her of herself. Did you notice how Clamberry's body didn't revert to human when she was killed? Because she has no longer a human body, she outlasted her human body, that's why.
Now Clamberry is really the record holder for the fastest promotion to a status of recruiter after becoming an official magical girl. It still took her months or maybe even more than one year, but compared to others who usually easily have to commit to it for dozen of years before becoming someone of such status, that's incredibly fast. Thing is, that exception is due to Clamberry taking a "legal shortcut" that no one else managed to achieve. That shortcut couldn't have been possible without the help of FA-B, without the strength and battle proficiency of Clamberry, or without her cunning side. No one else could do that before and after her ( and as a matter of fact, no one will never be able to, as that legal shortcut forever disappears right after the scandal created by the death of Clamberry). And FA-B knows very well that there is not a single magical girl in that group of 16 that is even remotely close of being able to do what Clamberry did.

Also, Clamberry was completely able to behave in society. Do you really think that the land of magic didn't provide mental care after the tragedy she faced back then? They didn't see a damn thing, they thought she was perfectly sane.

As for what FA-B would get from this, well, he's an AI mascot. Contrary to living mascot he cannot move by himself, he needs someone to carry him around. So the worst thing for him would be to be left behind, or even worse in fact, to be sent to the land of magic's administration. What FA-B is desperatly trying to do isn't to get a new master out of snow white, but to get a temporary pawn that will do what he says. For this, he will lie as much as he need. While he died so we'll never be sure, FA-B was probably planning to cover the death of Clamberry in his reports for as long as possible, and use the pawn to be brought to some of the sympathisers Clamberry had, in order to be in proper hands, and go in hiding. There's no hiding what they did once the Land of Magic starts to inspect what happened, and you can be sure that will happen as soon as the land of magic get informed of Clamberry's death. So FA-B need to get as much time as he can to go in the hands of someone who can survive professional bounty hunters, and that was definitely not a rookie magical girl. As i said it's all hypothesis now that he died, but we know Clamberry had powerful sympathisers and even peoples who were revering Clamberry, so that was his best option to survive, and most probably the "temporary pawn"would be killed by the sympathiser as soon as she "delivered" FA-B. I mean he promised her something that he has no way to provide (becoming a recruiter) and lied to her about so many other things it's not funny. He had no intention of letting SW live long enough for her to notice the lies.
Not really a good idea to accept such a deal.


Clamberry and FA-B are merely plot device. Everything in the story is set in motion by their death. TBH what do you expect from a villain that die before the end of the prologue of a story? Look at any story where this happened and come back to me with any example of really elaborated villain, I'm curious if you can find one.
So I cannot agree with Clamberry and FA-B being main villain of anything. If they were the main villain, the goal (even temporary) of the story would be their demise, instead, the start of the story is their demise.
If you look back at the first arc, no character ever held as an important goal the defeat of those two. None. Swimswim and her group preyed on her thinking she was weak, as for FA-B, no one even tried to kill him until the very end and then he died in like 2 minutes after someone set that goal.
Very well, as I said I naturally concede to those with more knowledge. That said, I didn't say that Cranberry and Fab were the main villains PERIOD, just the main villains of this ARC. And that if people like them are going to continue to be the major antagonists, I find it surprising that the story lasted so long. As I said, people who act so purely evil and selfish were done to death well before the more motivated villains became common, and frankly they tend to get boring as presented here these days (in my opinion at least) because there's no conflict beyond the physical fight and the question of "how do I destroy this monster". It's obvious that you have to destroy them, and there's really no downside to fighting/killing them. Now, if we're going to instead be dealing with villains like Swim-Swim, then it makes more sense that things would last so long. As I said, Swim-Swim is much closer to what you earlier disdained as "overdone", and as a result a much better villain in my eyes. She's acting in pursuit of her dreams and convinced of the righteousness of her own actions, sometimes pained by things she "has" to do while still convinced that it's the "right" thing to do; she's literally just too "innocent" or na´ve to realize what she's doing, and when you know who she is and what she's doing and why, you really have to either be blinded by vengeance or blinded by blood to so easily kill her. Not saying you couldn't kill her knowing these things, but your blade would shake as it goes in and you'd live yourself just a little scarred from the knowledge that you've killed someone who wasn't even yet capable to understand what she was doing.

Also, I'm glad to hear that Fab's story was a lie. As I said, the system as he described would be practically designed for diminishing returns, with many recruiters being girls who just don't want to be champions of justice for all eternity or are afraid of the possibility of conflict, and choose girls according to their own values. You'd have weaker girls recruiting and often valuing useless or counterproductive traits, resulting in worse and worse magical girls. The way you describe is far better and I'm glad to hear that the real organization at least has enough sense to only let veterans handle recruitment (even if their checks and controls are weak enough that they'd let through a woman who doesn't even try to hide the fact that the only thing she wants is to bathe in the blood of the strong).
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Old 2017-01-03, 11:49   Link #923
Dengar
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Originally Posted by rladls2121 View Post
Raaaaaawwwwrrr!!!
Not sure whether that means I'm wrong or not.
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Old 2017-01-03, 12:19   Link #924
Kuroageha
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Local pet ruins everything
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Old 2017-01-03, 15:08   Link #925
rladls2121
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Not sure whether that means I'm wrong or not.
No you are not wrong.

It is not just 14 Magical Girls that died.
The damages Calamity has caused and people died from it.
And to think that is just the small part.

Things like that is going to happen again.
Which is it makes me crazy.
Considering Land of Magic, Island of Magic, City of Magic, State of Magic, Country of Magic, whatever that place is seen as a joke by Snow White and Ripple.

Last edited by rladls2121; 2017-01-03 at 15:46.
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Old 2017-01-04, 08:00   Link #926
Zefyris
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
Very well, as I said I naturally concede to those with more knowledge. That said, I didn't say that Cranberry and Fab were the main villains PERIOD, just the main villains of this ARC. And that if people like them are going to continue to be the major antagonists, I find it surprising that the story lasted so long. As I said, people who act so purely evil and selfish were done to death well before the more motivated villains became common, and frankly they tend to get boring as presented here these days (in my opinion at least) because there's no conflict beyond the physical fight and the question of "how do I destroy this monster". It's obvious that you have to destroy them, and there's really no downside to fighting/killing them. Now, if we're going to instead be dealing with villains like Swim-Swim, then it makes more sense that things would last so long. As I said, Swim-Swim is much closer to what you earlier disdained as "overdone", and as a result a much better villain in my eyes. She's acting in pursuit of her dreams and convinced of the righteousness of her own actions, sometimes pained by things she "has" to do while still convinced that it's the "right" thing to do; she's literally just too "innocent" or na´ve to realize what she's doing, and when you know who she is and what she's doing and why, you really have to either be blinded by vengeance or blinded by blood to so easily kill her. Not saying you couldn't kill her knowing these things, but your blade would shake as it goes in and you'd live yourself just a little scarred from the knowledge that you've killed someone who wasn't even yet capable to understand what she was doing.

Also, I'm glad to hear that Fab's story was a lie. As I said, the system as he described would be practically designed for diminishing returns, with many recruiters being girls who just don't want to be champions of justice for all eternity or are afraid of the possibility of conflict, and choose girls according to their own values. You'd have weaker girls recruiting and often valuing useless or counterproductive traits, resulting in worse and worse magical girls. The way you describe is far better and I'm glad to hear that the real organization at least has enough sense to only let veterans handle recruitment (even if their checks and controls are weak enough that they'd let through a woman who doesn't even try to hide the fact that the only thing she wants is to bathe in the blood of the strong).
Even of this arc is doubtful. No one was tryingto stop them/defeat them, and by that, I don't simply mean stopping them precisely, as characters who didn't know that Clamberry and FA-B were responsible for this mess still didn't try to stop the "person responsible for this" by searching who it was. Clamberry actually even died BEFORE anyone knew she was in charge.
They didn't search for an answer, they didn't try to stop them either. Can such characters be called main villain of this arc? Compared to this, SwimSwim was actually hated, and peoples tried to stop her.

Clamberry and FA-B are not "purely evil". They simply acted out of self interest/selfishness and didn't care for the problem it was causing for other. Most criminals IRL have that type of reasons behind what they did, so it's a good thing that some characters in a story are motivated by such banal reasons.

SwimSwim isn't overdone. She's what would happen if you give to a child the power to kill easily without being punished.

Clamberry is actually hiding it very well. When the news about what she has done spread, lots of magical girls who knew her are surprised that it was Clamberry that was doing such things. Ironically there's a well known battlefreak amongst very powerful magical girls, who is -contrary to Clamberry- obviously NOT allowed to select new magical girls at all. The reaction of peoples knowing both were usually "are you sure it's not Marika who was doing that?" . But while Marika is a battlefreak and troublemaker who doesn't hide her nature at all, she just likes to fight strong opponents, not to kill them, so she would never do that. Peoples hiding their true nature well like Clamberry are far more dangerous usually~.
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Old 2017-01-04, 13:56   Link #927
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Zefyris View Post
Clamberry and FA-B are not "purely evil". They simply acted out of self interest/selfishness and didn't care for the problem it was causing for other. Most criminals IRL have that type of reasons behind what they did, so it's a good thing that some characters in a story are motivated by such banal reasons.
That's one area we'll have to disagree I guess. In what amount of studying I've done (admittedly not a ton but some) frankly a greater portion of criminals do indeed either find a way to make their actions necessary or at least make it excusable, and as a result are able to at least try to persuade their enemies. And the pair are "pure" in the sense that they have no justification or belief in a need for justification; I was bored or I want to kill is pretty much the whole of their motivation as we've seen in the anime. Yes, people do kill out of boredom or a desire for blood, but still most come up with some reason it's OK and the villains that don't are boring for the simplicity of their motivation. There are even series where heroes find themselves lamenting how stupid the villain must be due to them having such simple motivations.
Quote:
SwimSwim isn't overdone. She's what would happen if you give to a child the power to kill easily without being punished.
I was referring to your claim that villains who believe they're doing the right thing have been done too many times. Not overdone as in over-the-top, but overdone as in done so many times people get bored. Swim-swim is very much typical of the villain type you claimed were used too often, as she legitimately believed that what she was doing would make her a "princess", someone great, and that what she did was necessary either to achieve said goal or due to some rules. Her reasoning isn't great and hesitation would come due to her naivete and childishness rather than the possible validity of her statements, but it still would bring about an internal conflict concerning whether killing her is the right thing. At the very least, she's far from the purely selfish creatures Cranberry and Fab are.
Quote:
Clamberry is actually hiding it very well. When the news about what she has done spread, lots of magical girls who knew her are surprised that it was Clamberry that was doing such things. Ironically there's a well known battlefreak amongst very powerful magical girls, who is -contrary to Clamberry- obviously NOT allowed to select new magical girls at all. The reaction of peoples knowing both were usually "are you sure it's not Marika who was doing that?" . But while Marika is a battlefreak and troublemaker who doesn't hide her nature at all, she just likes to fight strong opponents, not to kill them, so she would never do that. Peoples hiding their true nature well like Clamberry are far more dangerous usually~.
Very well, I guess she only reveals her blandness when she's got someone cornered. I still feel like the screening process might need a little work if someone like that is let through, especially since she AND a corrupt familiar were both let through and allowed to work together.

Please understand, I did enjoy the series. I just feel like causative villains (is this term acceptable to you since you don't like calling the ones ultimately responsible the "real villains"?) like those two are bland and uninteresting, a character type that is rarely used today because they were used too much in the past and still remain overused in stories aimed at younger audiences. As I said, I feel like for a series to last longer than what I saw and remain interesting (to me at least), it has to have incidents where the villain is either a little more complex in motivation or a heck of a lot better at manipulating things to stop people from just offing them. Cranberry and Fab are so straightforward that once you know their plot you can kill them without batting an eyelash. Pure villains like this work far better when they are able to actually find ways to stop their enemy's blade and make them fear the consequences of defeating them. The last guy who caused and ran the whole thing went down in the most pathetic way I could imagine, and I really wish he'd said something that would actually justify Snow White shouting "don't listen to him" rather than pathetic pleas that wouldn't convince anyone older and more sane than Swim-swim.
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Old 2017-01-06, 10:39   Link #928
Zefyris
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
That's one area we'll have to disagree I guess. In what amount of studying I've done (admittedly not a ton but some) frankly a greater portion of criminals do indeed either find a way to make their actions necessary or at least make it excusable, and as a result are able to at least try to persuade their enemies. And the pair are "pure" in the sense that they have no justification or belief in a need for justification; I was bored or I want to kill is pretty much the whole of their motivation as we've seen in the anime. Yes, people do kill out of boredom or a desire for blood, but still most come up with some reason it's OK and the villains that don't are boring for the simplicity of their motivation. There are even series where heroes find themselves lamenting how stupid the villain must be due to them having such simple motivations.
The "come up with some reasons" is actually done by FA-B and Clamberry as well during the show. And just like actual criminal, those reasons are nothing more than empty reasoning with nothing behind. FA-B Clearly claim that the normal selecting method doesn't gives strong willed, powerful and capable magical girl and that therefore the wish for such magical girls from the Land of Magic is stupidly contradicting their reserve on the way to select them. Whereas FA-B's selecting process gives very good result overall.
Clamberry even points out the limits of the Land of Magic's reasoning behind such goody two shoes way of selecting, as in, they don't want to create problem for Earth, but in fact since they are creating magical girls they are creating problems anyway, so the reserved way of creating them doesn't really make sense to her. They clearly gives logical reason to do this and point out the lack of logic of NOT doing it like this.

The difference between Clamberry /FA-B and lots of villain in fiction is that they are not doing evil things in the name of weird reasons. They are doing it for selfish reasons, and justifying it with arguments afterwards. Like lots of real criminals would do.


Quote:
I was referring to your claim that villains who believe they're doing the right thing have been done too many times. Not overdone as in over-the-top, but overdone as in done so many times people get bored. Swim-swim is very much typical of the villain type you claimed were used too often, as she legitimately believed that what she was doing would make her a "princess", someone great, and that what she did was necessary either to achieve said goal or due to some rules. Her reasoning isn't great and hesitation would come due to her naivete and childishness rather than the possible validity of her statements, but it still would bring about an internal conflict concerning whether killing her is the right thing. At the very least, she's far from the purely selfish creatures Cranberry and Fab are.
The thing is, what I meant here is that I don't believe that swimswim is believing she's right or anything. Because a 7 years old child doesn't really has any concept of righteousness or anything of the sort. As you pointed out, she's innocent yet. And as such, she's simply dealing with the problems she's facing with the only method she founds out: killing whatever causes the problem makes the problem disappear. There's no right or wrong in this.
That's actually what makes the idea of giving to such young child so much power THAT scary.



Quote:
Very well, I guess she only reveals her blandness when she's got someone cornered. I still feel like the screening process might need a little work if someone like that is let through, especially since she AND a corrupt familiar were both let through and allowed to work together.
Well this definitely needs work, on that we agree. i know why such a "hole" in the selection process happened (and not only for Clamberry but a few other recruiters shouldn't be recruiters either). There's no doubt that this was a huge miss from the administration, a miss that the Clamberry scandal will make them realize and change. Still, it's too late for the hundred to thousands of death that miss caused, unfortunately.

Quote:
Please understand, I did enjoy the series. I just feel like causative villains (is this term acceptable to you since you don't like calling the ones ultimately responsible the "real villains"?) like those two are bland and uninteresting, a character type that is rarely used today because they were used too much in the past and still remain overused in stories aimed at younger audiences. As I said, I feel like for a series to last longer than what I saw and remain interesting (to me at least), it has to have incidents where the villain is either a little more complex in motivation or a heck of a lot better at manipulating things to stop people from just offing them. Cranberry and Fab are so straightforward that once you know their plot you can kill them without batting an eyelash. Pure villains like this work far better when they are able to actually find ways to stop their enemy's blade and make them fear the consequences of defeating them. The last guy who caused and ran the whole thing went down in the most pathetic way I could imagine, and I really wish he'd said something that would actually justify Snow White shouting "don't listen to him" rather than pathetic pleas that wouldn't convince anyone older and more sane than Swim-swim.
Yes I know you enjoyed it, we're currently discussing, not having a fight or anything right now ^^".
I just don't agree with what you want of a villain. That being said, there are many different type of villain in this story, not just one type. For example, just someone who needed money for her family being ill, or something, and did the dirty work. Or someone who is killing other out of a twisted ideal about how things should be. And so on. So it's not like the story continue with only one "type" of villain. Just like SwimSwim wasn't the same type of villain than the others. Still not agreeing about Clamberry or FA-B though .
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Old 2017-01-06, 12:57   Link #929
Spica
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Very well, I guess she only reveals her blandness when she's got someone cornered.
I wouldn't consider her 'bland' at all. Of course it's fine consider her as such since anime only had the bare bone of information about her.

Just listen to her character song a bit.

Last edited by Spica; 2017-01-06 at 13:30.
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Old 2017-01-06, 15:03   Link #930
alex_drian
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Well, better villains will come

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Old 2017-01-07, 15:54   Link #931
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Zefyris View Post
The thing is, what I meant here is that I don't believe that swimswim is believing she's right or anything. Because a 7 years old child doesn't really has any concept of righteousness or anything of the sort. As you pointed out, she's innocent yet. And as such, she's simply dealing with the problems she's facing with the only method she founds out: killing whatever causes the problem makes the problem disappear. There's no right or wrong in this.
That's actually what makes the idea of giving to such young child so much power THAT scary.
I'd disagree here. She certainly seems to have some sense of right and wrong, it's just that she's so young she's not really all that clear on the details. Her concept of good and bad is just too cut and dry, to the point that what an adult tells her just goes. She was told to strive to be like Ruler, so she decided that the "good" thing would be to become her, and kill her because she couldn't become the leader if someone else was the leader. You see this particularly well when she kills Tama. She has to reassure herself as she cries that she was doing what was right and necessary: a magical girl can't let anyone know her true identity. This isn't the action of an infant who thinks in terms of "if I kill this person the problem disappears", it's the action of a child who thinks the ends always justify any means and every rule is absolute. This doesn't make her absent of right and wrong, just overly simplified in her definitions of morality. But she still believes that there is a right and wrong and that what she's doing is right. Also, she does not simply think "kill and win". She talks of how she should be able to do this without killing everyone or letting everyone die, and tries to find a way to at least have one ally because what she considers the "right" path requires that there be someone else.
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Old 2017-01-07, 17:40   Link #932
Zefyris
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She wasn't told to strive to be like ruler. She wants to be a princess herself after being told it was okay for her to be one, and the only princess she knows of is ruler, so she tries to be a new Ruler.
Simply, due to her young age, she keeps encountering problem that she completely doesn't know how to solve, so she keep solving them by killing the source of the problem.
There is no such rule as not letting someone see your human form. Ruler advised her to avoid to have your human form being seen indeed, but never said you needed to kill anyone who saw it. What happened is that "ruler wouldn't have left someone see her real form"-> "someone saw mine"-> I kill that someone, problem solved, i'm still like ruler".
It's not about right and wrong. She cries because she killed her friend (ironically she practice the writing of the kanji for friend right after that), but at no point the notion of right or wrong is going on here.

There's something she wants badly (being a princess) there's only one example she knows of (Ruler) so she copy, and there's only one way to solve any encountered problem she knows of (killing), so she keeps killing anything causing problem, friend or foes.
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Old 2017-01-07, 20:26   Link #933
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Zefyris View Post
She wasn't told to strive to be like ruler. She wants to be a princess herself after being told it was okay for her to be one, and the only princess she knows of is ruler, so she tries to be a new Ruler.
Simply, due to her young age, she keeps encountering problem that she completely doesn't know how to solve, so she keep solving them by killing the source of the problem.
There is no such rule as not letting someone see your human form. Ruler advised her to avoid to have your human form being seen indeed, but never said you needed to kill anyone who saw it. What happened is that "ruler wouldn't have left someone see her real form"-> "someone saw mine"-> I kill that someone, problem solved, i'm still like ruler".
It's not about right and wrong. She cries because she killed her friend (ironically she practice the writing of the kanji for friend right after that), but at no point the notion of right or wrong is going on here.

There's something she wants badly (being a princess) there's only one example she knows of (Ruler) so she copy, and there's only one way to solve any encountered problem she knows of (killing), so she keeps killing anything causing problem, friend or foes.
Ruler told her and everyone to strive to be like her. To her, Ruler's orders and rules were absolute. Therefore yes, she was told to strive to be like her and did view it as the right thing to do. Around that time she was also told in her dreams that she should try to become a princess, which resonated with Ruler's statements and also convinced her that it was OK to actually do so. And again, her teaching under Ruler and through the manipulations around her led her to believe that she was supposed to kill others rise up and also to protect her own. It wasn't just "I want this; these people are in my way; I'll kill them". It was "this is what I'm aiming for and what Ruler said I should do; these people are opposing me and my team; I'm supposed to kill them". The girl's SEVEN, not two. She has a sense of right and wrong, she just doesn't understand it very well and is very rule-oriented: I was told this is good so it must be good, and if I was told this is the way it's supposed to be then I have to make it be that way.

And your interpretation of her choice to kill Tama really doesn't seem to fit what was shown, at least in the anime. She didn't say "Ruler wouldn't have been seen", she said "Ruler told me that a magical girl MUST NOT let her identity be discovered, therefore there was no choice". Those words do not suggest that she acted out of a desire to be like Ruler, but rather that she wanted to continue to follow the rules she'd learned about right and wrong for magical girls.
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Old 2017-01-07, 21:11   Link #934
Zefyris
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Ruler never EVER persuaded or brainwashed anyone into killing other. Ruler wasn't that type of person to begin with. The whole kill to get rid of the problem is swimswim only. Nemurin only told her that she CAN be a princess too, never that she SHOULD. It's swimswim's desire to be a princess that twisted everything said to her.

the "Ruler would have done it better" has already been said countless time before that passage, this is still the same. She's a kid chasing an twisted image of a deceased person.
Ruler would have been horrified seeing what swimswim did there, especially to Tama, but same for TopSpeed and Winterprison for example.

A girl at seven doesn't a sense of righteousness for big things like death and the like, sorry.
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Old 2017-01-07, 23:26   Link #935
Benigmatica
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Episode 12:
Well, seems that only Snow White remained as the survivor of this death game... Just kidding, seems that Ripple is alive after killing Swim-Swim and then destroyed Fav for badmouthing Top Speed! Honestly, Swim-Swim should have known the consequences of her actions instead of becoming the second coming of Cranberry.

Glad that the death game is finally over, but I feel that this series needs a sequel! It's still okay to be honest.
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Old 2017-01-08, 00:06   Link #936
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Originally Posted by Benigmatica View Post
Episode 12:
Well, seems that only Snow White remained as the survivor of this death game... Just kidding, seems that Ripple is alive after killing Swim-Swim and then destroyed Fav for badmouthing Top Speed! Honestly, Swim-Swim should have known the consequences of her actions instead of becoming the second coming of Cranberry.

Glad that the death game is finally over, but I feel that this series needs a sequel! It's still okay to be honest.
Nothing is over, everything start from here
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Old 2017-01-08, 00:58   Link #937
rladls2121
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^ I agree.
Really, imagine there are way worse kinds of people than Fav out there.
Other Magical Girl survivors like Snow White and Ripple might be out there.
Someday, groups Magical Girls like these two will gather, build an organization and save more people that only Magical Girls can.
Solving many problems going around in this world, and someday solve problems in Magic World too.
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Old 2017-01-08, 13:12   Link #938
BWTraveller
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Location: Texas
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zefyris View Post
Ruler never EVER persuaded or brainwashed anyone into killing other. Ruler wasn't that type of person to begin with. The whole kill to get rid of the problem is swimswim only. Nemurin only told her that she CAN be a princess too, never that she SHOULD. It's swimswim's desire to be a princess that twisted everything said to her.

the "Ruler would have done it better" has already been said countless time before that passage, this is still the same. She's a kid chasing an twisted image of a deceased person.
Ruler would have been horrified seeing what swimswim did there, especially to Tama, but same for TopSpeed and Winterprison for example.
Did I once say Ruler "brainwashed" anyone? I only said she made rules and orders and expected people to follow her, and Swim-swim is at the sort of age where if an authority figure says this is what you're supposed to do then that's the right thing to do. There's a difference between being brainwashed and being taught, and she was an eager learner who learned lessons that become unsafe in a mind that's too literal and absolute. And Nemurin didn't just say "you can do this" she said "why not try doing this". Small change but it has a big meaning in a small child's mind. Add to that Ruler's own declaration that others should strive to be like her and it's easy to see her deciding that not only did she want to become Ruler but she was right to do so. Also, don't forget that Ruler WAS the first one to suggest deliberately killing someone. Sure, she suggested an indirect murder by using force and threats to put Snow White in a position where her death was guaranteed, but she still declared that they were going to cause someone's death. The killing didn't start with Swim-swim, it started with the words and plans of her mentor. And again, I know that Swim-swim thought often that she was inferior to Ruler. That doesn't change the fact that at the point where she killed Tama she thought "Ruler (the person who taught me how a magical girl is supposed to behave) said you must absolutely make sure to protect your identity, therefore I HAD NO CHOICE". This was not a matter of solving a problem interfering with her desire, it was a matter of upholding the rules and doing what she believed needed to be done. You are severely simplifying her behavior and ignoring some of her words and actions if you think that she had no sense of right and wrong. Just because her morality is extremely warped by bad lessons and manipulations by others doesn't mean she doesn't have a moral code.

Quote:
A girl at seven doesn't a sense of righteousness for big things like death and the like, sorry.
That's what I meant when I talked about the state of her sense of right and wrong. She has a sense of right and wrong, but she's still in a very strict rule-based level where things are excessively absolute. If an end is right (that is, if it fits the rules and goals) then any means is righteous, including murder. She still has a very firm sense of right and wrong, in some senses even stronger than most other people in the story, it's just that her understanding of the complexities is so limited that all she can do is cling to the absolute rules she was taught.
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Old 2017-07-08, 15:30   Link #939
Kitsu Breaker
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Join Date: Mar 2011
I like La Pucelle so much that Hope in few year I abble to help create a lot history when she date/romanticed girls from this serie and other.
Here some with the Izetta Girls
Spoiler for size:
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