AnimeSuki Forums

Cherudim Arche · 2013-04-30, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

It doesn't need to alter the way Kira and Athrun use it, and I don't see how that can't be done. Especially if they decide to change the designer like WZ to WZC. And considering those two designs are from like almost 10 years ago, a change that doesn't alter the concept is not impossible. They will find a way to push out new models.

Kira and Athrun to change slightly tactically, it isn't like 00, Wing, where it just gets more guns and blades. As for WZ, it strategy always based on it buster rifle. Take away the buster rifle, it loses it biggest fang. The same thing applies here. The reason for SF and IJ becomes even more specialized. That depends if they due variants on the seed destiny through books like seed destiny the edge remastered. That will give a actual reason to sell a models of IJ and SF beside the remastering models. They could just that Bandai has to find the right venue to sell it to the fans.

Kirayuki · 2013-04-30, 21:32

I never tried to imply or mentioned about removing their main armaments specifically (well if they does, I wouldn't be surprised), they can still be there. Re-arranging them can work in this case and it's still literally a new model. Of course the general concept of the suit itself still need to be the same.

Point is regardless the logic and details, as long as it not the exact same suit in outer appearance things can work and pass as a new model.

monster · 2013-04-30, 23:56

An upgrade/new model could simply be on the internals. The Strike Rouge is an upgrade to the Strike and it's a different model, but you wouldn't know it just by looking if it didn't have a different color (well, that and the fact that it can maintain atmospheric altitude).

Cherudim Arche · 2013-05-01, 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

An upgrade/new model could simply be on the internals. The Strike Rouge is an upgrade to the Strike and it's a different model, but you wouldn't know it just by looking if it didn't have a different color (well, that and the fact that it can maintain atmospheric altitude).

The entire problem it requires the striker system, whether its the E, rouge, Noir. They are dependent on having Skygraspers and 105 daggers as support units. They are still strike units that have packs dictate their tactics.

IJ and SF already have a system set up. Freedom provide fire-support for Justice, while Justice compensate to get rid of any annoying stragglers on the battlefield. Also, if it does happen internally. The only thing that can be done is to mainly improve the verniers. VL is still consums way too much energy as it is unless is in small amounts or is treated more like the meteor units using light-wave thrusters.

monster · 2013-05-01, 00:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cherudim Arche

The entire problem with that is the striker system, whether its the E, rouge, Noir. They are dependent on having Skygraspers and 105 daggers as support units.

IJ and SF already have a system set up. Freedom provide fire-support for Justice, while Justice compensate to get rid of any annoying stragglers on the battlefield.

I don't see what that has to do with anything that I said.

Quote:

Also, if it does happen internally. The only thing that can be done is to mainly improve the verniers. VL is still consums way too much energy as it is unless is in small amounts or is treated more like the meteor units using light-wave thrusters.

I don't know if that's the only thing that can be done, but even that much is fine. They're already great as they are currently.

Aquaman OS · 2013-05-01, 02:06

I think the point was SF and IJ aren't just "upgrades" to the original units. They're totally different machines only vaguely based on the originals. They have totally different frames, wing set ups, weaponry. SF is notably streamlined and slimmer compared to the original if you compare them.

monster · 2013-05-01, 02:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

I think the point was SF and IJ aren't just "upgrades" to the original units. They're totally different machines only vaguely based on the originals. They have totally different frames, wing set ups, weaponry. SF is notably streamlined and slimmer compared to the original if you compare them.

Cherudim Arche was talking about their roles in battle, not their constructions, so I don't think that's the point at all.

Beside, an upgrade doesn't have to keep the same frames and such.

Gundamx · 2013-05-01, 03:54

Just show SF with wing of light and I will be happy...
some might even think of it as upgrade sine they never show SF with it in the anime...
(Why equip something you never plan to show or used?)

aeriolewinters · 2013-05-01, 04:09

How about maintaining the original Freedom Frame, while having the same abilities of the Strike Freedom?

I mean you could trade that Calidus cannon for a pair of new balaenas. Then have the original number of wings that the Freedom has, only that they're Dragoons too. (Heck you could call them Fin Dragoons with the sleeker shape)

quagmire · 2013-05-01, 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gundamx

Just show SF with wing of light and I will be happy...
some might even think of it as upgrade sine they never show SF with it in the anime...
(Why equip something you never plan to show or used?)

They show SF with wings of light plenty of times. But, it's only when the DRAGOON's are deployed.

SF's VL engines are blocked by the DRAGOON's when they are docked.

From episode 39 alone....

Rising Dragon · 2013-05-01, 12:34

From what I understand, this was caused by the TV airing--the Strike Freedom did not initially show the use of wings of light when it first appeared, but did so later in the series. The movies and the DVD releases all corrected this.

Washu-Chan · 2013-05-01, 12:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

From what I understand, this was caused by the TV airing--the Strike Freedom did not initially show the use of wings of light when it first appeared, but did so later in the series. The movies and the DVD releases all corrected this.

Speaking of this, what were the changes (not counting the TV Movies or the HD Remaster edits) that were made between the original broadcast and DVD versions of both Seed and GSD?

For example:

I know that Mu's floating helmet was in the broadcast version, but was it edited out in the TV Movies or the DVD release?

The deaths of Shinn's family; in the broadcast version, was it crossfire between the Freedom and Calamity, or was it the Freedom only (which was later retconned to the Calamity firing)?

Rising Dragon · 2013-05-01, 13:25

Mu's helmet wasn't edited out of the DVD release, no. Also in the Destiny DVDs, it showed the Freedom and Calamity both firing when Shinn's family die. Since when was that retconned into just the Calamity's fault?

kaito-kid · 2013-05-01, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

From what I understand, this was caused by the TV airing--the Strike Freedom did not initially show the use of wings of light when it first appeared, but did so later in the series. The movies and the DVD releases all corrected this.

Are you sure? I watched the episode when it aired and I'm pretty sure it had WoL from the start.

Rising Dragon · 2013-05-01, 13:42

It's only what I've been told. I've only seen the episode from the DVD. I've read a lot of commentary from its original run remarking on how the Gundam suddenly had wings of light when it previously didn't.

Aquaman OS · 2013-05-01, 13:54

In the initial trailer for GSD, Shinn's family was killed by a barrage of missiles. In the first ep flashback it was crossfire between Freedom and Calamity (causing all the KIRA KILLED HIS FAMILY bs) but in a later recap only showed Calamity (which combined with the fact that Shinn never awknowledged Freedom killing his family or even recognizing it later on, brought on the idea that it was retconned out to keep the all pure Jesus Yamato's hand's clean).

I myself always thought it was just conincidence that Freedom was shown before they got hit. And it was just the irrational Kira haters desperately hoping for a reason for Shinn to justifibly hate and kill him. And since in the remaster it was still Freedom (with the remastered Hi Mat animation no less) and Calamity shown firing, and we know it won't be a plot point that Kira killed them, then that seems to suggest it was just coincidence how the scenes were organzied.

Rising Dragon · 2013-05-01, 14:04

*sighs* I was afraid it'd be that. It doesn't make sense for Calamity to have caused it, since it wasn't even facing in that direction at the time.

Aquaman OS · 2013-05-01, 14:27

We don't even know where Freedom and Calamity were. We lose track of them while it focuses on Shinn going for the phone for like 10 seconds and then see Calamity and Freedom firing out of context. They might not even have been shooting at each other for all we know.

Rising Dragon · 2013-05-01, 14:34

What we do know, however, is that during that particular volley, 1) the Asuka family was on the ground, 2) the Calamity was grounded and aiming its cannons upwards, and 3) the Freedom was airborne and aiming its cannons downwards at the Calamity.

Needless to say, it makes it far more likely that the Freedom's shots were the ones that took out the Asuka family and not the Calamity. That Shinn doesn't react to the Freedom concerning it, however, makes sense, because he didn't see this. He was down a hill, with his back turned on his family when they were killed. He wouldn't have seen which Gundam's shots hit the ground, and therefore wouldn't know which one was responsible.

That they again whitewashed Kira of any supposed wrongdoing is just... ugh.

Aquaman OS · 2013-05-01, 14:42

They didn't though. The remaster still shows Kira firing. If there was any white washing that needed to be done they would have removed it. The fact that they didn't (but it still isn't going to be awknowledge that he killed them) suggests that he never did. Or at least that Calamity only being shown later wasn't a retcon, but simply just shortening the clip for the clip show.

And again, in the very first preview it was neither Freedom nor Calamity but a barrage of missiles from a ship before the explosion happens.

Although watching it again, thanks to the remaster Hi Mat animation it appears Freedom's actually firing up, or straight. Not down. Although that's just how that animation always was.

2013-05-01, 04:09	Link #6849
aeriolewinters Photomancy Experiments Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Balanga City, Bataan, Philippines	How about maintaining the original Freedom Frame, while having the same abilities of the Strike Freedom? I mean you could trade that Calidus cannon for a pair of new balaenas. Then have the original number of wings that the Freedom has, only that they're Dragoons too. (Heck you could call them Fin Dragoons with the sleeker shape) __________________

2013-05-01, 12:34	Link #6851
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	From what I understand, this was caused by the TV airing--the Strike Freedom did not initially show the use of wings of light when it first appeared, but did so later in the series. The movies and the DVD releases all corrected this. __________________

2013-05-01, 13:25	Link #6853
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	Mu's helmet wasn't edited out of the DVD release, no. Also in the Destiny DVDs, it showed the Freedom and Calamity both firing when Shinn's family die. Since when was that retconned into just the Calamity's fault? __________________

2013-05-01, 13:42	Link #6855
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	It's only what I've been told. I've only seen the episode from the DVD. I've read a lot of commentary from its original run remarking on how the Gundam suddenly had wings of light when it previously didn't. __________________

2013-05-01, 14:04	Link #6857
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	sighs I was afraid it'd be that. It doesn't make sense for Calamity to have caused it, since it wasn't even facing in that direction at the time. __________________

2013-04-30, 21:32	Link #6842
Kirayuki Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012	I never tried to imply or mentioned about removing their main armaments specifically (well if they does, I wouldn't be surprised), they can still be there. Re-arranging them can work in this case and it's still literally a new model. Of course the general concept of the suit itself still need to be the same. Point is regardless the logic and details, as long as it not the exact same suit in outer appearance things can work and pass as a new model.

2013-04-30, 23:56	Link #6843
monster Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	An upgrade/new model could simply be on the internals. The Strike Rouge is an upgrade to the Strike and it's a different model, but you wouldn't know it just by looking if it didn't have a different color (well, that and the fact that it can maintain atmospheric altitude).

2013-05-01, 02:06	Link #6846
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	I think the point was SF and IJ aren't just "upgrades" to the original units. They're totally different machines only vaguely based on the originals. They have totally different frames, wing set ups, weaponry. SF is notably streamlined and slimmer compared to the original if you compare them.

2013-05-01, 03:54	Link #6848
Gundamx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	Just show SF with wing of light and I will be happy... some might even think of it as upgrade sine they never show SF with it in the anime... (Why equip something you never plan to show or used?)

2013-05-01, 13:54	Link #6856
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	In the initial trailer for GSD, Shinn's family was killed by a barrage of missiles. In the first ep flashback it was crossfire between Freedom and Calamity (causing all the KIRA KILLED HIS FAMILY bs) but in a later recap only showed Calamity (which combined with the fact that Shinn never awknowledged Freedom killing his family or even recognizing it later on, brought on the idea that it was retconned out to keep the all pure Jesus Yamato's hand's clean). I myself always thought it was just conincidence that Freedom was shown before they got hit. And it was just the irrational Kira haters desperately hoping for a reason for Shinn to justifibly hate and kill him. And since in the remaster it was still Freedom (with the remastered Hi Mat animation no less) and Calamity shown firing, and we know it won't be a plot point that Kira killed them, then that seems to suggest it was just coincidence how the scenes were organzied.

2013-05-01, 14:27	Link #6858
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	We don't even know where Freedom and Calamity were. We lose track of them while it focuses on Shinn going for the phone for like 10 seconds and then see Calamity and Freedom firing out of context. They might not even have been shooting at each other for all we know.

2013-05-01, 14:34	Link #6859
Rising Dragon Goat Herder Author Join Date: Jun 2008 Age: 36	What we do know, however, is that during that particular volley, 1) the Asuka family was on the ground, 2) the Calamity was grounded and aiming its cannons upwards, and 3) the Freedom was airborne and aiming its cannons downwards at the Calamity. Needless to say, it makes it far more likely that the Freedom's shots were the ones that took out the Asuka family and not the Calamity. That Shinn doesn't react to the Freedom concerning it, however, makes sense, because he didn't see this. He was down a hill, with his back turned on his family when they were killed. He wouldn't have seen which Gundam's shots hit the ground, and therefore wouldn't know which one was responsible. That they again whitewashed Kira of any supposed wrongdoing is just... ugh. __________________

2013-05-01, 14:42	Link #6860
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	They didn't though. The remaster still shows Kira firing. If there was any white washing that needed to be done they would have removed it. The fact that they didn't (but it still isn't going to be awknowledge that he killed them) suggests that he never did. Or at least that Calamity only being shown later wasn't a retcon, but simply just shortening the clip for the clip show. And again, in the very first preview it was neither Freedom nor Calamity but a barrage of missiles from a ship before the explosion happens. Although watching it again, thanks to the remaster Hi Mat animation it appears Freedom's actually firing up, or straight. Not down. Although that's just how that animation always was.