Shin Sekai Yori - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

You're correct, she reacts like any normal girl would, and that's precisely the problem.

No, I think most normal girls (and most normal guys, for that matter) would be on the verge of completely giving up by now, if they hadn't already. I doubt many would have been able to make the firm promise to Inui that Saki did in this episode.

Honestly, the way some people on this thread are criticizing Saki makes me think of some of the harshest criticisms that Shinji Ikari received. In both cases, I really feel like the extremely bleak situation that the criticized character is forced to deal with, and has been dealing with for almost his/her entire life, is not getting the focus it deserves.

Neither Saki or Shinji are above criticism, but I think it's getting overblown when we consider narrative context.

I was under the impression Saki was supposed to be special.

She is special. Most probably would have crumbled by now. Have you really stopped to think about how absolutely horrific Saki's personal situation has been since Yakomaru made his move?

Here's the thing - It's not that Saki is weak, it's that Satoru is almost unbelievably unflappable. Satoru is a badass. The guy stares death in the face with unreal composure. The strength Satoru has shown throughout the past few episodes is nothing short of pure heroism.

She is the future leader of the village, and seeing a leader act like she does (complaining about freaking bugs while she's on a mission to save humanity) is quite worrisome.

So what are you saying? That people with arachnophobia can't be good leaders?

The bigger problem is that her characterization is inconsistent. She has been put in a very stressful situation when she was just a kid (powerless and stranded in hostile territory with only Satoru by her side, a predicament not unlike the one she is in currently), and yet she managed to remain fairly composed and power through it.

Back then, she had not witnessed anybody else die. Dangerous situations take on a more ominous feel once you have visual confirmation that yes, they can kill you. Kids don't always fully register this like adults do because not all kids have experienced the heart-wrenching loss that confirms their fears.

Modern Saki has watched numerous people get brutally killed right in front of her eyes. She's even seen a man that "could split the world in half" get brutally killed.

The only reason she's made it this far is her plot armor, not her own strength. I expected better from her.

I really don't think you're being fair here. That is not the only reason she's made it that far. At least part of the reason that Saki has made it this far is her own strength.

Originally Posted by creb

If Saki had a history of weakness...well, the show probably wouldn't be as engaging as it has been, but while she hasn't been superwoman, she's been remarkably strong in the travails she and her friends have been through as children.

Yes, but such travails can leave lasting scars over time. Scars that can later re-emerge when facing new travails.

Adult Saki on the other hand seems to be bordering on hysteria/delusions, as if reality is so unbearable she has to escape into some fantasy where she can let herself be caught between her two crushes.

Do you really think all the Shun bits are just 100% delusion on Saki's part? Rather convenient, don't you think, for this "delusion" to correctly inform Saki that Maria's child is not a fiend (sorry, but it's now too much for this to be just a red herring; I'll be shocked if he really is a fiend).

I'm inclined to think that Shun really did do something to Saki to cause this imagery of him to keep coming up for her. In other words, it's not just her going crazy, it's what Shun did to her having its intended effect even years after he passed on.

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

The problem I have with Saki's behavior is that she's repeatedly shown as being more traumatized and hesitant than pretty much every male colleague she travels with.

Some of the males Saki has traveled or worked with has handled things worse than she did.

In that five-person team that Saki and Satoru ended up being a part of several episodes back, there was one guy that was downright reckless (courageous to a fault, if anything) and there was another guy that was cautious to the point of cowardice.

Then there was that guy who had basically cracked, and said that everybody should split up since otherwise they'd all be killed.

All the other guys that Saki has worked with throughout the last few episodes have been admirably strong, but the three I just discussed didn't keep their wits about them as well as Saki did.

[Reckoner]

I am quite bothered by Saki's characterization lately. What did Tomiko see in her? She has repeatedly acted like a useless damsel in distress who just never uses her powers. I understand, she isn't particularly powerful, but she almost never does anything. Just a lot of crying and being useless. I loved Saki earlier in this show, so it's disappointing to me that they'd strip her of any use in this story. Maybe the creators thought that was moe or something, I don't know. It's just very annoying to see her do things earlier in the show (Like survive the encounter with the tainted cat), but then seem completely useless here. Granted, she has acted pretty "normal," but she is supposed to be more special and just normal IMO.

Now I am not sure how they plan to conclude this series, but they only have two episodes left. I fear we might run into some awkward pacing issues in the final stretch here (If we haven't already). I also heard from novel readers that a lot of the significance about what the Psycho Buster is got gutted. These sorts of details are what keep the story logical and intelligible. Otherwise it allows us to just poke holes in what's going on. Why is the psycho buster useful against the fiend and a counter to death feedback? This still hasn't been explained at all and I am not sure the TV series will ever justify it to me.

This series might have lost its chance at greatness.

[Hypernova]

Originally Posted by mnedel

And if it’s not a problem, could someone pm me with details on psychobuster

Wasn't this explained last episode? It's a modified strain of Anthrax made by the Americans.

[Entravity]

This anime has some great scenery. Love that Shun is back even if it's from her mind. Looking forward to the next episode!

[vansonbee]

Watched this episode high and enjoyed it!

I notice Saki gets around a lot, from childhood; Satoru x Saki -> Shun -> Mari -> Shun -> Maria - Satoru -> random ops guy in ep.23 -> ghost of shun!

Great to see Shun back! I recall someone state it would be great he stay dead, because its beautiful or something. I wonder what you think now?

[Tougarashi]

If Maria's kid is not an Akki, why he could kill other PK users using his telekinetic power. He could even kill Shinsei. I'm confuse.

[Xiammes]

I think its becausehe grew up around Queerats, that he believes he is one. I think Death Feedback happens when he attacks the Queerats. Look at the battle with the Hornet Colony, the Akki only disarmed them then the Robber Fly finished them off based off of Kiromaru's account.

Even without their equipment, the Giant Hornet Colony was the largest and most powerful and still would have formidable opponents. It seems quite dangerous to send Queerats to fight when they could have use the Fiend to wipe them all out instantly.

[sonagi]

Eww .. did NOT like this episode.

So disjointed, and no continuity whatsoever. I feel like they sacrificed a lot of relevant content to play out the melodramatic, cue-the-ghost-in-the-shell music, Shun revelation scene. I get that they were going after emotional effect but it was overly sentimental.

I'm also worried about how they're going to stuff everything into the final two episodes. The last thing I want is a *rushed* ending.

One comment about next episode's preview ... was that a tattoo on the Akki's face? Is that the same tattoo used to mark queerat colonies (i.e. Sphonk?). I'm just wondering because I don't recall seeing it before in previous episodes.

[GoldenLand]

This was a good ep, although I do hope that it won't mean the remaining eps will be too rushed. There was quite a bit of atmosphere. Looks as if Inui is dead, which is a real pity. I liked him. Kiroumaru and Satoru are still alive going by the preview, so I suppose the reason Inui went with Saki is because the other two were still too important to die.

The preview seems to be suggesting that Kiroumaru will betray them, as does Inui's talk with Saki this ep, which actually makes me feel better about him. If he's not going to betray them - or at least, not betray them in the sense of genuinely being in cahoots with Yakomaru - then it makes some sense to mislead the audience and make them think that sort of betrayal is a serious possibility. I will be very entertained if Kiroumaru actually is working with Yakomaru but it's all a ruse for the former to get a chance to kill the latter.

The previews have misled us before, but I am concerned that Satoru might be going to get himself recklessly killed next ep. Don't die, man, there are so few long-term cast members still around! We know Saki isn't going to die, so the show will only be able to scare us with the potential deaths of Satoru and Kiroumaru. The only other continuing characters are Yakomaru and the not-actually-a-Fiend, and the latter hasn't been around much anyway.

I'm surprised by some of the criticisms being thrown at Saki in this thread. Can it really just have been because she was scared of some harmless insects in the previous ep? She may have been scared, but she did trudge through them in the end. Or because she was scared of creatures which are meant to be produced by the psychokinesis-users' subconscious expectations about Tokyo, that it is Hell on Earth? Well, yes, of course she was scared of those.

Saki has witnessed incredibly atrocities over the previous few days, and is still keeping her wits about her. Most people would have broken down by now, but she's focused intently on the very difficult task ahead of her. She promised Inui that she would succeed in her task even if he died. She escaped the thing that killed Inui, and then immediately went back underwater for the vital minoshiro. She kept going after Inui's death, all on her own. And she's done this while the hypnotic barrier about Shun was falling to pieces and giving her hallucinations.

But, apparently the fact that she has been scared of frightening things, shed a few tears over Inui's death, and hasn't been doing especially dramatic things with her psychokinesis is enough for some people to start calling her a damsel in distress, useless, and to say that she's been portrayed as more traumatised than all the guys in the series. Those things aren't true. What Saki isn't is a battle-hardened soldier or combat specialist, although TBH even one of those would probably be breaking down in the circumstances she's under; as for the others in the group, Kiroumaru supposedly cares for nothing but revenge, Inui felt like a walking dead man who likewise cared only for revenge, and hopefully Satoru - who has been holding up admirably well until now, too - will not lose his head next ep, although I'm worried about him based on the preview. We shouldn't be expecting Saki to turn into a psychic Superwoman. Heck, the closest person to a psychic superhero in this series was Shisei...and look what happened to him. An admirable attempt to delay the "Fiend", but he couldn't save the day just by using amazing superpowers.

[Tougarashi]

Saki is more like a survivor instead of the heroine. Like Katniss in Hunger Game, she has a strong sense to survive. Out of all the members of her childhood friends, she is the one who can manage to survive. She never escape from the troubles she faced. When she tried to escape from rats with Satouru during the school trip, she managed to revive Satouru PK by reciting his mantra. Like Katniss, she have a kind heart but she was brave when she was searching for Shun. Another one thing is she always try to break free from limits. She doesn't care about the cantus barrier, the first one to suggest to catch the false minoshiro and came up with the idea of how to catch it. While others are already forget about Shun, she's the one who always reflect her memories curiously and dislike the idea of disposing the children using cats. Like Katniss who break all the laws of Hunger Games, Saki is the one who doesn't hesitate to break all the rules to get what she wants.

She was the one who broke all the rules of the village and she is the one who is retelling the story. It is interesting to know that how she will change the village and its culture and how to solve the danger of PK leakage and how to protect the community for danger without disposing any kids. Those are the questions remained to be answered by Saki.

[taichi-kun]

Pretty boring episode,almost nothing happen

It was more like a date in hell between saki and inui (come on she even took a shower! I thought the rats were after them )

In the novel they had sex and a nap,just kidding :

The only good moments involved Shun ,when saki remembered him and inui realizing that kiromaru was lying

Poor inui. he is with tomiko now

[GoldenLand]

Originally Posted by taichi-kun

It was more like a date in hell between saki and inui (come on she even took a shower! I thought the rats were after them )

Yeah, the shower was surprising. I managed to rationalise that one by thinking "well, maybe it was to reduce their smell and make it harder for the rats to track them" but they were supposed to be rushing...Maybe more time passed than it seemed, and that explains why they had to take breaks?

[Xiammes]

[QUOTE][Yeah, the shower was surprising. I managed to rationalise that one by thinking "well, maybe it was to reduce their smell and make it harder for the rats to track them" but they were supposed to be rushing...Maybe more time passed than it seemed, and that explains why they had to take breaks?/QUOTE]

The library needed to recharge and reactivate, Saki wouldn't know where to go without it.

[Raviel]

The last few episode threads have been pretty funny, I mean last week people started suspecting Kiroumaru of betraying everybody and we get some hints to that this week.

On another note, that mini false minoshiro is starting to grow on me, if they ever made anything like it IRL it would be the best toy ever XD.

[RWBladewing]

I'd considered posting this before this episode but up till now I figured I'd look like I was wearing a tinfoil hat if wrong. I've suspected Kiroumaru of hiding something ever since the battle between the Giant Hornets and Robber Flies; they focused on his mouth making a rather malicious-looking grin several times when he was talking about the upcoming battle and its implications, and I didn't think that was merely to express confidence. And they did so again right before they set out on this expedition. It may seem crazy to suspect someone from just that but it struck me as something very deliberate and out of place otherwise. At this point, I actually wonder if he isn't the mastermind behind the entire thing.

The battle would have provided an excellent chance to prove his "loyalty", removing any suspicion of him and making Yakomaru the visible figurehead of the enemy, while simultaneously eliminating any members of the Giant Hornets who were still loyal. The most well-known and recognized leader managing to be the only one to escape from an enemy that ravaged an entire army is also a pretty convenient occurrence. There's also the issue of his previous expedition (possibly looking for a weapon to use against the humans himself) and the fact that he currently seems to be reading Yakomaru's troops' movements exceptionally well, almost as if he already knows what they're going to do. He's now also managed to split up Saki and Satoru.

People may say that sacrificing his entire colony for this purpose is out of character for him but, what do we really know about his character? Most of the stories of his great exploits and honor were relayed through other characters rather than being seen directly. What we have seen, is that he's more than willing to kill enemy leaders and take their children as slaves. And that his conduct in helping Saki's group back on the camping trip also happened to be against human society's interests in general as he seemed to recognize they had been doing and learning things they were not supposed to. In addition, the Giant Hornets may even have been willing to sacrifice themselves. The whole "laying down their lives for the greater good" theme has been mentioned many many times by queerats by this point.

I guess I will find out next episode whether I am crazy paranoid or not.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by taichi-kun

In the novel they had sex and a nap,just kidding

Going by the whole Bonobos thing, I'm surprised this didn't happen.

I mean, this situation is probably the most stressed out Saki has ever been.

[momonae]

Originally Posted by GoldenLand

Yeah, the shower was surprising. I managed to rationalise that one by thinking "well, maybe it was to reduce their smell and make it harder for the rats to track them" but they were supposed to be rushing...Maybe more time passed than it seemed, and that explains why they had to take breaks?

People here are harsh to Saki. Saki had been soaked in bug juice, at least let her bathe in water and change clothes....

As for Kiroumaru, his loyality is basically with his colony and its queen and his loyalty to the "gods" is in question. You can say he is very conservative and pious so he won't betray them. On the other hand he seems to know much about the "humans" and doesn't actually think them as "gods" and betrays them.

[Raghar]

I voted 10. For trolling and creating a cliffhanger that managed to start in the half of the episode.

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

I'm not quite sure what you're expecting from Saki. Do you expect her to be Batman with a master plan or something? Her character is not meant to be praised. Saki complimented Inui on being a survivor like Tomiko complimented her, and he even said that it wasn't skill but luck that kept him from being killed.

Of course not. I just expect her to act like she used to. I don't think that's asking for too much. She was previously portrayed as stronger than this. Now she's become freaking Mamoru.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Here's the thing - It's not that Saki is weak, it's that Satoru is almost unbelievably unflappable. Satoru is a badass. The guy stares death in the face with unreal composure. The strength Satoru has shown throughout the past few episodes is nothing short of pure heroism.

Why was Satoru never praised as much as Saki then?

It's not only Satoru. Niimi, the kid who looked like Shun, the woman who decided to stay at the hospital. They have all displayed more strength and courage than Saki. So what, she's not weak, they're just too strong?

I think the people who would completely break down in this situation are not actually the majority. You underestimate humanity's insane resilience and instinct for survival. People have managed to get through situations that were just as bad as this one if not worse.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

So what are you saying? That people with arachnophobia can't be good leaders?

I'm saying that somebody who carries the fate of her race on her shoulder should be able to forget about her disgust for insect for one second. It's not like she was on a pic-nic.

Good leaders should be able to keep a cool head, overcome their fears (or at the very least conceal them) and inspire others. Even a leader during "peaceful times" should have these qualities. You never know what kind of crisis may arise.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Back then, she had not witnessed anybody else die. Dangerous situations take on a more ominous feel once you have visual confirmation that yes, they can kill you. Kids don't always fully register this like adults do because not all kids have experienced the heart-wrenching loss that confirms their fears.

She had seen the priest die in a horribly gruesome fashion. There is no way the danger didn't fully register in her mind. It was even worse back then because she had no means to defend herself and absolutely no allies save for Satoru. And yet when faced with this desperate situation, she reacted better than anybody else would have. Her resourcefulness was unbelievable. I could believe that Saki had what it took to lead a village.

I wouldn't have any problem with Saki's current behavior if she had always been that way (you brought up Shinji - for the record, I actually like him). However, that's not the case.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Of course not. I just expect her to act like she used to. I don't think that's asking for too much. She was previously portrayed as stronger than this. Now she's become freaking Mamoru.

You're really going over-the-top with this...

Why was Satoru never praised as much as Saki then?

Having the courage to personally face death in the face is a bit different from having to make cold, hard administrative decisions pertaining to the future of your village.

It's not only Satoru. Niimi, the kid who looked like Shun, the woman who decided to stay at the hospital. They have all displayed more strength and courage than Saki.

No, they haven't. Saki has chosen to take actions no less dangerous than they have.

So what, she's not weak, they're just too strong?

I'm saying that if you compare Saki to the strongest people she has worked with, it will cause a skewed view of her character. They're not the standard for "moderate strength". They're the standard for heroic strength.

I think the people who would completely break down in this situation are not actually the majority.

Then tell me where all the bold heroes were during the various shooting massacres that have plagued America in recent years and decades.

Satoru's level of strength is very much the exception. So is Inui's.

You underestimate humanity's insane resilience and instinct for survival.

Not at all. "Instinct for survival" is part of the reason why most people would just run away, or try to find a bunker somewhere to hide in.

People have managed to get through situations that were just as bad as this one if not worse.

Sure, and in many cases, they did that by being cowardly.

I'm saying that somebody who carries the fate of her race on her shoulder should be able to forget about her disgust for insect for one second.

Did Saki showing a bit of disgust over bugs in any way, shape, or form seriously impede the mission she was on?

No, it didn't. So you're making a mountain out of a molehill here. Good grief...

Good leaders should be able to keep a cool head, overcome their fears (or at the very least conceal them) and inspire others.

Personally, I prefer working with leaders who are honest and transparent, and don't try to hide their fears from you.

She had seen the priest die in a horribly gruesome fashion.

Didn't she have her eyes covered when that explosion happened? I don't recall the Priest leaving much in the way of remains either.

There is no way the danger didn't fully register in her mind. It was even worse back then because she had no means to defend herself and absolutely no allies save for Satoru. And yet when faced with this desperate situation, she reacted better than anybody else would have. Her resourcefulness was unbelievable.

How so? Even back then, Satoru was the one leading the charge.

And Saki still has what it takes to lead a village.

I wouldn't have any problem with Saki's current behavior if she had always been that way (you brought up Shinji - for the record, I actually like him). However, that's not the case.

She has always been this way. She's always been very emotionally expressive. She's never been the person to lead the fight.


Anyway, if Shinji never bothered you, I don't see any good reason for Saki to bother you.