(L+CR) Chihayafuru Season 2

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Arya

^Don't know, I'm expecting that she will appear. They gave this juicy piece of "drama" away too casually.

I'm pretty confident Chihaya will be watching the Arata vs Shinobu match, since they need at least one person from Mizusawa as a perspective character. Besides, having 2 people she strives towards playing against each other is the closest thing to a dream come true for her at this point. Also, why should she prioritize Taichi over other members, such as Tsukuba or Kanade/Komano? They should be equally important in her eyes as valuable team members. If she can't be at all of their matches, she might as well go to the match that will help her the most.

[Guardian Enzo]

If they repeat last year, all the finals matches will be moved into the main hall, so it's not as if she can't be physically present at more than one match.

As for as which one she mainly watches, if she does end up watching Arata's match with Shinobu while she has teammates competing that pretty much invalidates not just an entire season of her character development but the whole focus of the season on the importance of teams and team play. As for why she should focus on Taichi over, say, Tsukuba - well, maybe because he's her oldest friend and the one who helped her build the club from nothing when no one else would?

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

If they repeat last year, all the finals matches will be moved into the main hall, so it's not as if she can't be physically present at more than one match.

As for as which one she mainly watches, if she does end up watching Arata's match with Shinobu while she has teammates competing that pretty much invalidates not just an entire season of her character development but the whole focus of the season on the importance of teams and team play. As for why she should focus on Taichi over, say, Tsukuba - well, maybe because he's her oldest friend and the one who helped her build the club from nothing when no one else would?

Ah, thanks for reminding me about moving to one location.

Also, if Chihaya watches Arata and Shinobu, that does not invalidate what she has done in the past year. She did what she wanted to accomplish in the team tournament already. This is now the individual tournament, and she should be free to do what she wants, which is watch the match that will give her the most growth.

She might learn some things from watching Taichi, but Taichi's strength is memory and strategy, which are areas Chihaya is weak and probably cannot use as well. Watching Shinobu and Arata will allow her to see their strengths and weaknesses in order for her to compete against them. Taichi is not even on her radar at the moment for Karuta. Chihaya will actually be quite stupid if she mainly watches any other match besides the Arata vs Shinobu match, since she will miss a golden opportunity learn so much.

As for being her oldest friend, that is not true. Arata actually beats Taichi as the oldest friend, even if it is only be a few weeks. But then again, that is irrelevant, since they are about the same as far as old friends go. Yes, he helped her build the club, but she played a huge part in its development and recruitment. Still, as with the club angle, all the members should be equally important, not just Taichi. And if you can't watch them all, then sometimes it is better not to watch any, so you don't play favorites. Besides, everybody in Mizusawa will understand and actually should encourage Chihaya to watch the Arata vs Shinobu match.

Edit:

P.S. Also, how often has Chihaya watched Taichi play? How often has Chihaya watched Arata play? That should give you the answer to which one Chihaya will watch. It's really rare to watch either Shinobu or Arata.

[YourIdeas]

Just throwing this out but aren't Porky, Miyauchi-sensei, and Sumire watching Taichi? I know Mizusawa is close-knit and so are Chihaya/Taichi, but I feel like Chihaya would be fine watching the A-class final, especially since it gives her her first real chance of watching Arata play after so long.

Maybe it's because I focus much less on the romantic aspect, but I feel like the series would be fine viewing the A class final through Chihaya's commentary and Shinobu + Arata's battle faces, especially given that Taichi seems to be doing fine on his own and is even crushing a rival by a much larger card gap than some 10+ episodes ago.

[Kazu-kun]

So the episode I was waiting for since the beginning of the season is finally coming next weak. We already can see that Taichi is going against Retro for the semifinals, but the highlight of this moment is Retro's commentary on the way Taichi's playing, or rather his state of mind and behavior. I hope they will portrait this properly, because it's a pretty shocking moment.

About this episode... well, Shinobu is always a treat and the match was good (if one-sided) but the emotional aspects felt too telegraphed imo. I mean, since the moment Shinobu thinks back to her childhood and how she became isolated you already know Chihaya's going appear and tell her to play with her again and what not. It's like everything that happens feels so planned. I don't know, it just doesn't feel natural... Still, it was a good episode.

[frodonk]

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No. Arata's memory is normal. Taichi's memory is genius level. Arata's strength lies in his skills and strategies. I can't explain this here without going into spoilers but the point is, among the main three (Chihaya, Taichi and Arata) Arata is the one with less inborn talent. Not that it matters, since he has the best techniques and the best acceleration.

I will always reference one of the first few episodes of season 1 for this. It might not matter during karuta matches but still, they set up arata as somebody with (at least) very good memory.

We haven't really seen that. That's certainly not what Nishida was complaining about. And we've seen plenty of "good memory players". The ones who did the most with it were the quizz guys, and in the end it's not that useful.

nishida's complaint is more of "I have also been playing karuta since i was little but why i cant get into arata's level?". my answer to that would be he didn't have a eternal grand master as a trainer.

Except Shinobu learned mostly by herself. Arata's style is a near copy of his grandfather's.

shinobu got experience with older players before she became too good for everyone. it was shown in more detail this time. turns out she was just lonely and considered the cards as her only friends.

arata's grandfather is worth 100 A-class players in terms of playing experience if you ask me.

Rion's stuck in B-class. The Meijin became meijin in three years. He can't be that affected by bad readers.

Yes, Chihaya, Rion, and Meijin are players who rely on superior hearing. As far as we know, it's all they have in common. I don't know what you want to make of it.

he isn't affected, though he performs better with good readers i think. there was also this episode where chihaya won because she was able to pick out a particular reader's quirks because that guy has been the only one reading from the start. there was also this reader who didn't get the timing right and it really bothered chihaya in another episode.

rion is still in class b because her ears are tuned only to her grandmother's voice.

my point is, they're considered above average because of their hearing-based talents, unlike arata and shinobu who were honed to become what they are now.

as for this episode, it was beautifully done. and i thank the writers for not making chihaya win.

also, this might just be my first time seeing a relationship established, either as rivals or friends, because of a t-shirt (or a tanktop). lol

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by frodonk

I will always reference one of the first few episodes of season 1 for this. It might not matter during karuta matches but still, they set up arata as somebody with (at least) very good memory.

Good but normal. Not genius level like Taichi's.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

Also, if Chihaya watches Arata and Shinobu, that does not invalidate what she has done in the past year. She did what she wanted to accomplish in the team tournament already. This is now the individual tournament, and she should be free to do what she wants, which is watch the match that will give her the most growth.

She might learn some things from watching Taichi, but Taichi's strength is memory and strategy, which are areas Chihaya is weak and probably cannot use as well. Watching Shinobu and Arata will allow her to see their strengths and weaknesses in order for her to compete against them. Taichi is not even on her radar at the moment for Karuta. Chihaya will actually be quite stupid if she mainly watches any other match besides the Arata vs Shinobu match, since she will miss a golden opportunity learn so much.

As for being her oldest friend, that is not true. Arata actually beats Taichi as the oldest friend, even if it is only be a few weeks. But then again, that is irrelevant, since they are about the same as far as old friends go. Yes, he helped her build the club, but she played a huge part in its development and recruitment. Still, as with the club angle, all the members should be equally important, not just Taichi. And if you can't watch them all, then sometimes it is better not to watch any, so you don't play favorites. Besides, everybody in Mizusawa will understand and actually should encourage Chihaya to watch the Arata vs Shinobu match.

Well no, it is true. Chihaya and Taichi were already friends when Arata transfered in from Fukui. As you said it's not the main issue, but if you want to be accurate you may as well be accurate - Taichi is her oldest friend.

I find it depressing to think that the prevailing notion should be that now that Chihaya has helped the team win the championship, she should just do whatever she wants. Doesn't supporting teammates extend beyond the end of the actual competition?

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sol Falling

In any case, an amazing Shinobu and Chihaya interaction episode, and Shinobu character episode overall. Shinobu thought that she shouldn't play with people her age anymore, because her strength would make them lose heart, but I wonder if she's realized now that it was actually her act of holding back which hurt Satoko-chan more. Also, dat "Itsu?". Straight to the heart.

Chihaya's an exception. Shinobu's played plenty of people without holding back. For the most part, they just broke.

I suspect Satoko was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation.

Originally Posted by frodonk

I will always reference one of the first few episodes of season 1 for this. It might not matter during karuta matches but still, they set up arata as somebody with (at least) very good memory.

It was to show off the benefits of Karuta for memorization. Arata's memory is good because he's a karuta player. But compared to other karuta players? We don't know, but no one's made any mention of it.

nishida's complaint is more of "I have also been playing karuta since i was little but why i cant get into arata's level?". my answer to that would be he didn't have a eternal grand master as a trainer.

My point is, he wasn't dominating Nishida with his memory. He was dominating him with his arm technique.

shinobu got experience with older players before she became too good for everyone. it was shown in more detail this time. turns out she was just lonely and considered the cards as her only friends.

arata's grandfather is worth 100 A-class players in terms of playing experience if you ask me.

So? At this rate, everyone is similar because everyone has experience playing Karuta and/or being trained by someone.

My point is that you haven't shown any similarity between Arata and Shinobu, despite your claims. Shinobu's skill is almost 100% natural talent. She trained by herself, she got experience by herself, she plays the way she wants to play.

Arata's skill is cultivated. It is the way it is because his grandfather made it that way.

he isn't affected, though he performs better with good readers i think.

That's true of every experience player. Heck, it's true of Kana.

there was also this episode where chihaya won because she was able to pick out a particular reader's quirks because that guy has been the only one reading from the start. there was also this reader who didn't get the timing right and it really bothered chihaya in another episode.

rion is still in class b because her ears are tuned only to her grandmother's voice.

Exactly. Rion is more affected than normal. The meijin and Chihaya aren't.

[thundrakkon]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Well no, it is true. Chihaya and Taichi were already friends when Arata transfered in from Fukui. As you said it's not the main issue, but if you want to be accurate you may as well be accurate - Taichi is her oldest friend.

I find it depressing to think that the prevailing notion should be that now that Chihaya has helped the team win the championship, she should just do whatever she wants. Doesn't supporting teammates extend beyond the end of the actual competition?

It is debatable if they were really friends or just normal classmates at that point. They didn't really hang out until after they started playing karuta together. *sigh* I had to just watch episode 1 again to see this, and it reminded me of how much of a jerk Taichi is when he is jealous. He was a more open bully back then, but at least now, he keeps it to himself. Let's just hope his thoughts don't manifest to action again, although I'm not sure how much more he can hold it in.

I find it depressing that if Chihaya does not watch Taichi, she becomes a villain in some people's eyes. Her old time friend whom she has not seen in a long time, and she finally gets a chance to watch him, is going to compete in the class A championship (assuming he makes it ). She finally gets a chance to watch this, and she becomes a villain if she does? If she is really that bad, then Taichi is better off with Sumire who absolutely adores him.

[Blaat]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

If they repeat last year, all the finals matches will be moved into the main hall, so it's not as if she can't be physically present at more than one match.

A class finals and B class finals were in separate rooms last year. I think only B class finals and lower gets put together.

Anyway regarding who she will watch I think Chihaya will end up seeing neither final. Chihaya's track record of watching her friends (or teacher) play after she lost is really lousy as someone always has to get her and remind her that her friends are still playing. So what if all her friends are too busy to remember Chihaya? That means she wouldn't watch any of the finals.

[Yume Hanabi]

Originally Posted by thundrakkon

It is debatable if they were really friends or just normal classmates at that point. They didn't really hang out until after they started playing karuta together.

I thought they had been friends for a while before Arata came. Chihaya seemed to know his mother well, she also talks about playing in his room all the time - stuff that isn't shown during their karuta era, so I always assumed it happened before they got into karuta.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Yume Hanabi

I thought they had been friends for a while before Arata came. Chihaya seemed to know his mother well, she also talks about playing in his room all the time - stuff that isn't shown during their karuta era, so I always assumed it happened before they got into karuta.

Stop crowding the topic with annoying facts...

Was the Class A final in a separate room last season? I remembered them all being together. In that event, Chihaya really is going to be put on the spot.

[CptChaos]

Little Shinobu is so kawaii.

[Repelsteeltju]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Stop crowding the topic with annoying facts...

Was the Class A final in a separate room last season? I remembered them all being together. In that event, Chihaya really is going to be put on the spot.

My memory was also a bit hazy on whether or not the A class finals where in the same room as the B class finals last year, so I checked. And it turns out they weren't.

Spoiler for images:

And looking back at how the entire team stood behind Taichi when he played the final B class match last year I really can't imagine Chihaya not going to see him in the B-class final.

[Guardian Enzo]

Well, 3/4 of the rest of the team had no choice but to be there - they were playing in the same room!

[karice67]

It's interesting that a lot of people still don't like Chihaya having gotten to the 3rd round playing with her left hand. I'm not trying to argue that everyone has to buy it, but I really think that a lot of people are not giving Chihaya (or perhaps, Suetsugu-sensei) enough credit.

Here's what the blogger wrote:

Spoiler for For length and commentary on corresponding manga chapters:

Up to the point where Chihaya had decided to use her left hand (chapter 84):

競技かるたでは、基本がしっかりしていれば、利き手と逆であってもそこまで力を落とさずに戦うことが出来る んですよね。

In competitive karuta, if a player works hard on the basics, then they'd be able to play with their weaker hand without losing too much of their strength.

精度や筋力が優れているであろう利き手を使用する方が明らかに有利なのですが、人によっては逆の手でも同じ ような力で戦うことが出来ます。

Although one's dominant hand is bound to be more precise and have stronger muscles, depending on the person, it is possible that they can play at the same strength.

(He then speculated on what would happen in the next chapter, which included comments about how Chihaya's movements aren't that fast - rather, her speed in taking cards is because she's reacting to what she hears. This was followed by a discussion of what the blogger thinks are the merits and demerits of playing with one's weaker hand, followed by: )

僕も怪我をして、利き手と逆で半年間ほど試合をしていた時期があったのですが、悪いプレッシャーがなくなり 、スピードが落ちるのでお手つきが減っていました。ただ、一字や半音勝負の札になるとどうしてもダメでした ね……終盤がキツかったです。

There was a period of time where I'd injured my dominant hand and had to play with my weaker one. Because there was less (bad) pressure on me, and also because I was slower, I made fewer faults. However, the final stages of the match were really rough, because I had great difficulty taking the one-syllable cards and could not contest the half-syllable* ones either.

*I can explain this term, if need be, though I'd want to give it another couple of weeks.

-----

After Chihaya had won against Yuube-san:

千早は凄いな……

Chihaya is amazing...

僕が右手を負傷して、半年間ほど左手でかるたをやっていたときに一番苦労したのは、身体をうまくコントロー ル出来ずに「相手陣が全然取れない」ということでした。しかし、千早は違う点で苦労しています 。

When I hurt my right hand and played with my left for half a year, what I struggled with the most was taking cards from my opponent's side, because I couldn't control my body well enough. However, Chihaya struggled with something different:

敵陣はふつうに取りにいけるのに自陣が……
自陣に身体が動かない……

Even though I can go after my opponent's side as I usually do, it's just not happening with my own side..my body won't move...

何だかんだで、相手陣だと勝手に身体が動いて取れているようです。原田先生の教えである攻めがるたが身に付 いている証拠でしょうかね。

It seems like her body just moves to take cards from the opponent's side. This is perhaps proof that she has become really accustomed to the attacking style that Harada-sensei teaches.

-----

千早が札移動した理由

The reason Chihaya mirrored her card placement

自分の定位置を覚えるときに、場所で覚えている人と、身体で覚えている人に分けられると思います。場所で覚 えている人は、「この札は右中段にある！」と反応して札を取るのですが、身体で覚えている人は「この札は利 き手側の中段にある！」と反応して取るのではないかと思います。

When remembering one's own card placement, I think that people can be divided into two groups: those that remember their placement on the field, and those that remember their placement with their body. The former group would think along the lines of 'this card is in the middle row on the right!' and react according, whilst the latter would move according to 'this card is in the middle on my dominant hand's side'.

千早の場合はおそらく後者で、札を取る手（有効手）が変わったことによって、うまく自陣に反応出来なかった のでしょう。...

Chihaya is probably of the latter group, which is why she had difficulty taking cards from her own side when she had to use her weaker hand. ...

The only way to know for certain whether it would be possible would be to speak to people who actually play (or follow) competitive karuta, I would think. Anyone in Japan willing to go seek such people out?

------

And to add another consideration for the debate on what Chihaya would do should she have to choose between watching the A or B final, do remember what happened the previous year:

Chihaya was so caught up in watching the A-level final that she came late to the B final - in fact, she did not even have any idea what had happened with her other teammates!

So I would have to side with Enzo on this one: going by the themes of this season of Chihayafuru, Chihaya would choose to watch the B-level final.

[Kanon]

The temptation to watch the two people she idolizes as Karuta gods -Arata and Shinobu- fight it out will be very strong, but I too think she will choose to watch Taichi's match. Didn't she say at the beginning of the season that Taichi making it to class A was one of their priorities? This is very important for her as well. She will be there to support him and watch him finally reach class A.

Originally Posted by Blaat

Let me try to clarify the Shinobu card moment. Chihaya won Shinobu's card at the moment where Chihaya ignored the injury and removed the tape, she was at her normal self.
When Chihaya went to retrieve the card and about to grab it, or in other words about to grasp it, the pain kicked in preventing Chihaya from holding onto Shinobu's card.
Afterwards we saw the pain was too much for Chihaya (the short quick breaths) she couldn't do anything and lost.

She would have still lost but from that card moment we can interpret that Shinobu is within Chihaya's grasp but the injury is preventing from seeing it in the match.

Aww screw this I'll let hyperborealis do the explaining.

Don't worry, I get what you mean. I just don't think Shinobu was fighting seriously until the moment Chihaya took her favorite card from her. She wasn't going easy on her but she didn't exactly overexert herself either. She probably underestimated her because of her injury (she even offered to play with her right hand...). When she realized Chihaya could still put up a fight, she decided to go all out. Chihaya couldn't manage to take a single card from her afterward, not even when defending even though she apparently got better at it. This to me indicates she's still not quite on the Queen's level yet. She's getting close, but "close" is not enough at the top level.

I'd like to see a Shinobu x Megumu match in the semifinal. It would give us a better idea of how Chihaya would have performed if she hadn't been injured.

[Arya]

About Chihaya's choice I'm ambivalent. I agree that since the main theme of this season has been the team play the right thing to do for Chihaya would be watching B-class finals. Even more considering that she was the first stating that Taichi's A class was the priority of the year.
On the other hand Taichi doesn't deserve it that much, because rejecting Arata it's like he went against the team play theme, sort of. And he even bet everything he had (and would have) to win the team finals. So all the odds should be against him on both layers as player and as friend.
But it would be a chance for him to redeem himself. Non reacting as he usually does, when Chihaya will not appear to his final match. Showing us that he understood how important that match is for her, etc, etc. And from Chihaya's perspective this would also show that it's not only Taichi who didn't progressed that much on that front, but Chihaya also. It would be a sort of more fair and balanced ending, character-development-wise for them.
I'd prefer to see the latter. More interesting than a supposedly sort of happy ending. That if Taichi will win, that is not that obvious. Because I still think that he will not win.

[Akka]

Originally Posted by karice67

It's interesting that a lot of people still don't like Chihaya having gotten to the 3rd round playing with her left hand. I'm not trying to argue that everyone has to buy it, but I really think that a lot of people are not giving Chihaya (or perhaps, Suetsugu-sensei) enough credit.

I think the problem is that, because of drama rules, she's very often showing as struggling (and even losing) against every opponent.
If you don't actually concentrate on all particular details explaining the always-out-of-the-norm situation and only get the "average" feeling, she even feels like she doesn't progress at all (we see her struggling, then grapsing suddendly something which allows her to crush her adversary, then it feels like it's back square one the next match).

So it tends to distort the perception about what is her actually regular strength. But that's more the storytelling which is to blame in this case, than the spectators ^^

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Also like Yume Hanabi, as much as I enjoy the increased presence of Arata, his games are hardly interesting when he wins so easily. I was more interested in Nishida's game play than I was Arata during that match.

Originally Posted by Yume Hanabi

Kinda getting tired of always being reminded how godly Arata is at karuta. Hope we'll see a Arata-Shinobu match, 'cause it's probably our only occasion to see him struggle a bit.

I find these comments rather surprising, though, as it's Shinobu who's getting unrealistically one-sided matches.
In fact, I tend to feel the exact opposite : I usually find that Arata wins with a rather low count considering how supposedly strong he is, to the point that I tend to wonder if he's not deliberately going easy on people (that would be going completely against his character, though, so I don't really think it's the case).

After all, the game against Nishida was actually rather balanced (it was what, five cards differencial or so ?), and before he got back in shape, Arata actually lost rather often. When you think about it, Taichi is winning against a normally very evenly matched opponent, with a much bigger lead.

Shinobu is the one