Muv-Luv Franchise - Military Tactics, History, & Geo-Politics

[FRS]

A question having watched ep 4, is the working of their BETA simulator explained in the game ?

[Silvance]

what do you mean working? You mean how its set up by the instructors? I think so... I maybe wrong though.

I know that there are limited hive simulations and basic swarm one with or without laser classes. There might be unpredictable elements added, but no one knows for sure. The problem lies from the fact that it's standardized simulation based from the basic invasion patterns by the enemy that was observed and relies heavily to the information that mankind has accumulated at the given time.

Good for preparations, but it also causes most people, who hasn't fought in the front lines to think that the BETA will just charge in large numbers and shoot stuff with the moe laser class. So when the enemy behaves differently from what is commonly known... such as using military tactics that was used by mankind... or a new strain with unknown traits showing up... Then It gets really bad...

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by Silvance

^ Sword of the West, why are you so dazzling and irresistible? With the MK-57, it's just impossible not to be love-stuck. <3

ahem. ok. Enough creepy jokes.

Does anyone know this sexy lady? Judging from it's shoulders and chest area, I can deduce that it's European. Not to mention, the head reminds me so much of Typhoon.

Images

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JAS-39 Gripen is it. Check wiki you must.
http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/JAS-39_Gripen

[Silvance]

Originally Posted by grevierr

JAS-39 Gripen is it. Check wiki you must.
http://muvluv.wikia.com/wiki/JAS-39_Gripen

Oh, thanks. Lovely unit indeed.

A3! I demand an A3 of this masterpiece! D:<

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by Silvance

what do you mean working? You mean how its set up by the instructors? I think so... I maybe wrong though.

I know that there are limited hive simulations and basic swarm one with or without laser classes. There might be unpredictable elements added, but no one knows for sure. The problem lies from the fact that it's standardized simulation based from the basic invasion patterns by the enemy that was observed and relies heavily to the information that mankind has accumulated at the given time.

Good for preparations, but it also causes most people, who hasn't fought in the front lines to think that the BETA will just charge in large numbers and shoot stuff with the moe laser class. So when the enemy behaves differently from what is commonly known... such as using military tactics that was used by mankind... or a new strain with unknown traits showing up... Then It gets really bad...

Well, BETA's are known for their TACTICAL GENIUS at pulling a CREEEEDDDDD over their human foes, whom are constantly lured into fatal complacency.

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Creed

Point in example and a famous quote: "They cut the power?! They're dumb animals man, what do you mean they cut the power?!!"

[Myssa Rei]

grevierre: Creed isn't that broken actually. Indeed, few people where I play in use him, as the way his skills are set up don't match up well with many mainstream "gamey" army builds, like the infamous Leafblower. Mixed mechanized/aircav veterans lists do have the right synergy though...

It's only in Apocalypse-level games that Creed might be considered "cheesy", as depending on how alliances are set up he CAN make that, oh, Warhound infiltrate despite all logic dictating that it SHOULDN'T.

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by Myssa Rei

grevierre: Creed isn't that broken actually. Indeed, few people where I play in use him, as the way his skills are set up don't match up well with many mainstream "gamey" army builds, like the infamous Leafblower. Mixed mechanized/aircav veterans lists do have the right synergy though...

It's only in Apocalypse-level games that Creed might be considered "cheesy", as depending on how alliances are set up he CAN make that, oh, Warhound infiltrate despite all logic dictating that it SHOULDN'T.

Well, i kinda drew the analog of a Warhound SURPRISE! akin to a swarm of BETA Fortress class suddenly popping up 10 Km from the base behind the defensive parameter and mines. Which means that forces deployed OUTSIDE the mines have to run back through the mine field... Then the Fort class releases Laser class..... CREEEDDDDDD!!!!

[FRS]

Originally Posted by Silvance

what do you mean working? You mean how its set up by the instructors? I think so... I maybe wrong though.

I was wondering what kind of tech it use, is it some kind of VR equipement or something else ?

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by FRS

I was wondering what kind of tech it use, is it some kind of VR equipement or something else ?

Yes, its virtual information shared by the datalink in the OS. Since the visual information is already projected directly into the pilot's retinas, adding virtual enemies are done the same way. The datalink is more or less the commo system shared among the TSFs and their CP or base.

And they are most likely firing blanks or virtual ammo, with a feedback system for recoil.

[FRS]

Thanks for the informations.

[DoomRavager]

Not really connected to the current discussion, but interestingly TSFIA translations that came out on /m/ confirm that the YF-23 did actually have similar stealth capability to the YF-22(well, stealth was one of the basic tenets of the IRL ATF program, so I guess that's not so surprising) and actually was seemingly better not just at anti-BETA combat (higher killcount, deeper simulated Hive penetration), but also better at anti-TSF combat than the YF-22, scoring more wins than the YF-22 in direct versus combat. Apparently so completely dominating the YF-22 that even Lockheed's president thought they'd lost until the ATSF board announced their shocking decision.

So it wasn't a question of balancing anti-BETA capability against anti-TSF capability/stealth after all, just cost and combat doctrine compatibility. Glad that's put to rest. That's one less thing to criticize ML Americans about.

Well you could criticize them for adding stealth to the basic requirements of the ATSF candidates to begin with, but they were just taking the long view of "the reasons of a foreseeable BETA defeat , the effective elimination of Laser threat and an predicted increase in global arms race and space race".

[Von Himmel]

Is stealth capability really that important while fighting BETA? I think I've seen it explained before in the game, but I don't clearly remember it.

[DoomRavager]

It's useless against BETA. It's only useful against humans.

[Angrypokstick]

Originally Posted by DoomRavager

Not really connected to the current discussion, but interestingly TSFIA translations that came out on /m/ .

It got updated again with a new story. This one slightly related to TE back story. As i m sure many people who knows about future TE spoiler will recognize the Name "Infinities". Glad to also see that Not all US pilot prefer long range fighting.

[Myssa Rei]

Non-franchise observer question again (we need a Chitanda Eru emote for this - KININARIMASU!): What are the major fronts in Alternative. I know that it's mentioned that the BETA have been contained in both the Malay Peninsula and the Sinai area, but there's also all these mentions of the European front. What's the deal with that?

[Wild Goose]

Way back in the 70s, when the BETA first made landfall in central Europe, NATO and the Warsaw pact forces tried to take out the hive with conventional weapons (tanks, Cobras, Hinds, what have you). They were unsuccessful in containing the hive, and BETA succeeded in making a breakout into central Europe. In short order, most of Europe was devoured, with the survivors retreating to England.

At present day, the UK houses the surviving remnant of the European Union, and the European Front is essentially the Battle of Britain mixed with BETA. BETA make repeated attempts to invade England, and have so far been repulsed - another light novel sidestory, Shwarzesmarken, follows a group of German TSF pilots who're holding the line.

Several attempts have been made to invade back into Europe, but have been unsuccessful.

There's another front in Siberia, though this is technically not quite the European front, where the Soviets are holding the line against BETA by the skin of their teeth, with everything but Kamchatka having fallen, which is why they're leasing Alaska from the US.

...heh. First time I'm the expert, instead of Myssa. Nostalgic, isn't it?

[Myssa Rei]

Well, different focuses in different fandoms. Thanks for the quick reply, and again this reminds me just how eerily things mirror Cthulhu Tech's world situation (aside from the 40k Deathwatch RPG, my current P&P RPG poison).

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Way back in the 70s, when the BETA first made landfall in central Europe, NATO and the Warsaw pact forces tried to take out the hive with conventional weapons (tanks, Cobras, Hinds, what have you). They were unsuccessful in containing the hive, and BETA succeeded in making a breakout into central Europe. In short order, most of Europe was devoured, with the survivors retreating to England.

At present day, the UK houses the surviving remnant of the European Union, and the European Front is essentially the Battle of Britain mixed with BETA. BETA make repeated attempts to invade England, and have so far been repulsed - another light novel sidestory, Shwarzesmarken, follows a group of German TSF pilots who're holding the line.

Several attempts have been made to invade back into Europe, but have been unsuccessful.

There's another front in Siberia, though this is technically not quite the European front, where the Soviets are holding the line against BETA by the skin of their teeth, with everything but Kamchatka having fallen, which is why they're leasing Alaska from the US.

...heh. First time I'm the expert, instead of Myssa. Nostalgic, isn't it?

Think Shwarzesmarken occurs way before the Battle of Britain, in that the story happens during the BETA invasion that first took Europe. Which pretty much means most of those characters are probably dead by the time of the Euro Front and when Takeru appears.

[Silvance]

Originally Posted by FRS

I was wondering what kind of tech it use, is it some kind of VR equipement or something else ?

Oh, to think I failed to get the point of the question and pointed out something else. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

shwarzesmarken, follows a group of German TSF pilots who're holding the line.

Originally Posted by LystAP

Think Shwarzesmarken occurs way before the Battle of Britain, in that the story happens during the BETA invasion that first took Europe. Which pretty much means most of those characters are probably dead by the time of the Euro Front and when Takeru appears.

It sets in 1983. Plus, the 666th Squadron doesn't hold the line. Their job is to hunt down Lux and Magnus Lux within the horde and then retreat.

[Wild Goose]

Ah, yeah, my bad. I got Schwarzesmarken confused with Euro Front...

In my defense, that long summation/analysis of Yui and Yuuya's issues sucked up most of my brainpower