2010-06-20, 21:06 | Link #2121 | |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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I propose that this being is Featherine, who is also Asumu. |
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2010-06-20, 21:27 | Link #2122 | |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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About the metaworld, we know it isn't just a single world, the concept of metaworld includes infinite different worlds, as the scene with Lambda and Bern in that astronomically numbered Kakera suggests. I actually don't fully understand how this metaworld mess works, but I can at least tell you what's part of the game and what it doesn't. The scenes where we see Zepar, Furfur and the the various contestant inside that metaroom, for instance, was not part of the game. What were part of the game were the scenes where we see the various contestants performing the murders. which was obviously a separated layer. Basically the game needs to be in Rokkenjima, it is created for the detective to see it, and has absolutely no meaning if the detective isn't there watching it. So much that if the detective decides that he's seen enough the game just freezes like we've seen in EP5. Now we know that the scenes in the games can be faked, because we know there is a Game Master that narrates the whole story and can alter the truth. But about the meta world? We have nothing of the sort. Would a lie in the metaworld be even bound to the rules that work in the game? Certainly knox rules do not work there! And does it even make sense for the existence of a lie in the metaworld? I mean in the game we know that "as per rules" the story needs to be tied to some real world parameters. But the metaworld isn't real to begin with, the whole concept of genius Battler becomes kinda ridiculous when you get to the part that "it's a story created by Featherinne". in that case Battler isn't a genius at all, it's just a soulless character in a plot designed by an author. You see the problem? Either the metaworld exists "per se" in some kind of plane of existence, and in that case we are seeing it through the "eyes of God" (no lies allowed), or the metaworld is just a fictional story created by an earthly author, and in that case the Battler described is fictional, he can't think and he can't be a genius (the real genius would be the author). Lies have sense in a world where there's a truth to be covered, but lying in a world devoid of any truth, it's as meaningless as lying inside your dreams. The "lie" of your dreams is the "reality" of your dreams. I don't really know what the hell Ryuukishi is thinking but if he decided to lie even in the metaworld, then he really messed it up.
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2010-06-20, 21:38 | Link #2124 | |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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There are plenty of hints that Kanon is a girl if you're willing to look for them.
This is one twist I'd definitely get behind. Quote:
You're completely missing the point: Piece-Battler's struggles inside the guestroom are comparable to, say, Beatrice's resurrection of Shannon in Ep3. That is, a magical (fake) scene on the gameboard designed to convince the detective of a certain "fact". In Ep3, this was "Beatrice's redemption"; in Ep6, it was "Battler's failure". The first didn't turn out to be true. Why should the second? Furthermore, before you say anything else about Meta-Battler being unable to progress the story (as he's trapped in an Evil Wedding Ceremony) well, like the TIPS say, he "now exists on a plane higher than all others". Meta-Meta-Battler? Ah, and perhaps one final bit of evidence towards Genius Battler... Zepar and Furfur are Battler's furniture, correct? Why, then, are they running that wedding ceremony? |
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2010-06-20, 21:39 | Link #2125 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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There is one thing that bothers me about episode 6.
At the end of the episode, Shannon seems shocked that Kanon did not tell Jessica something. What do you think this something is? If it is Shkanon, well, I think episode 7 might be a bit rough for Jessica. Anyone else know what I am talking about? |
2010-06-20, 21:45 | Link #2127 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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I have no problem with er... ahem, "Kanon" yuri. However, Methinks that if Jessica were to find out that her love interest was Shannon and possibly the murderer, things would not end well.
Although that really always had been a problem with Shkanon, mainly, whenever Jessica comes into the equation. As for the genius Battler theory - I love Battler. He's a nice guy. But in episode 6 he endures torture for a reason. I don't think he'd risk Beatrice even if he had a chance of her getting her memories back. Fortunately, things worked out for the best. |
2010-06-20, 21:47 | Link #2129 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Erika clearly sees all the scenes in which George and Shannon, Jessica and Kanon talk to each other and stuff. She even remarks on how BOOOOOORING they are. (she's right, by the way) And then she definitely sees the magical murders happen. Those scenes make no sense without the love duel in between. Zepar and Furfur are BATTLER's furniture. Piece-Battler hangs out with Zepar and Furfur, but BATTLER is clearly not locked in the room. The love duel clearly advances the themes that BATTLER is pushing throughout his game. So I don't see how the love duel isn't part of it. It's a Kinzo roulette. High risk vs high reward. Considering Battler is Kinzo incarnate... |
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2010-06-20, 21:53 | Link #2130 |
Ace Detective
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: MIA
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You know what? Ultimately, this theory doesn't have a huge effect on the gameboard. And I like to think good things about Battler. So, I'll acknowledge it.
Although, is Beatrice completely back to snuff? I know a miracle occurred, but Beatrice at the end still seemed to be a bit like Moetrice... |
2010-06-20, 21:55 | Link #2131 |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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The actual effect on ep6 is irrelevant, it just explains Battler's potential motives and the trap BatBeato is setting for the other witches in ep7 and beyond. Whether Battler is a genius or screws up yet again really doesn't change the story, just why it happened.
I'm just sick of him always screwing everything up and want to believe he can do something awesome.
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2010-06-20, 22:04 | Link #2132 | |
Mystery buff
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gone Fishin!
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2010-06-20, 22:11 | Link #2134 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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Question on the seals, since we've gotten to a certain point where we can talk details.
If Shannon is Erika, how does she seal the room while being inside it? She's confirmed to be inside at the time of the sealing. The duct tape seals are referred to as "duct tape seals" several times, so I don't really think we can dismiss them as a meta construct. |
2010-06-20, 22:32 | Link #2135 | |||
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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Quote:
If Battler truly has all that deceptive power you suppose he has. Why couldn't he just deceive Beatrice?! Why he didn't just make Beatrice witness a whole fake game against an inexistent Erika? Wouldn't it be easier and more secure? Rather than manipulating a real and dangerous Erika, I'd rather kick Erika from the game (and this we know that he can do it) and then create a fake one to use the way I want. If Beatrice is the only thing Battler cares about, then there's no need for anyone else beside Beatrice. Quote:
And I don't get why you say I'm missing the point. I'm not missing the point. You say that those scenes are part of the game and I say they do not. You make comparisons and I don't think they are valid. Fake game scenes needs to be told by a Game master to the detective. If it isn't so they are not game scenes. and the scenes that I'm talking about do not even make sense if they are part of the game. We see them even before the logic error occurred. Are you trying to tell me that Battler showed Erika the foreshadowing of his logic error prisony long before Erika could execute his plan to trap Battler inside the logic error? How does that makes sense? Quote:
And why it can't be part of the game? Because it continues after Battle is taken out of commission. So if Erika was witnessing the Zepar and Furfur scenes, and if those are part of the game, how come Erika doesn't wonder why the game is still going on?!
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2010-06-20, 22:39 | Link #2138 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
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The boring parts were Shannon and George, Kanon and Jessica's love scenes on the gameboard. The meta-room appears right after those scenes, when Kanon and Shannon take out their brooch pieces. This is still in the middle of the same scene. They're still having the same conversation. Wouldn't Erika see them take out those pieces, see the shine that is described, and then what happens next? They appear in the meta room right after. If Erika didn't see that, wouldn't she be really, really confused? The scenes after wouldn't make sense at all. |
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2010-06-20, 22:47 | Link #2139 | |
BUY MY BOOK!!!
Join Date: May 2009
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Erika is apparently destroyed somehow at the end of the game, so there might be some additional benefit to doing it for real. There's also the possibility Bern and Lambda would crash the party. The slippery slope argument doesn't really work to criticize it.
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2010-06-20, 22:47 | Link #2140 |
別にいいけど
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
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@ Shiro Kaisen
Wait at this point I need you to quote, because the way I remember it, the first time we see the metaroom as soon as it finishes we see Erika and Dlanor in the guesthouse room. The part you mention where Erika comments the game should be before the metaroom scenes. @ Renall So your point is that Battler didn't make the best possible choice because "else it wasn't interesting", and since he concocted a needlessly complicated plot, he's a genius? and what's with that slippery slope argument thing? Where my argument was as slippery slope?
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