Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[Tyabann]

I cried too... That poor, deluded, neglected little girl...

God damn it, Rosa.

[Tjaard]

This episode was really good, a normal but good pace but better than the previous that was a little boring.
Usually Dean colors error for the stakes' hair but the graphics is always better.
Liked the appereance of a younger Oishi and his voice and yeah, another bitching side of Rosa
However in contrast to previous episodes, I liked most this one

[Jan-Poo]

Am I the only one that is more disturbed by the fact that Rosa left Maria alone for three days to have fun with her boyfriend?

Certainly killing Maria's only friends was by far a more evil thing she's done to her daughter, but I somehow can understand this because of "the evil witch". In other words that is something Rosa does while she is angered and doesn't have control over herself. As much as it is bad, it makes me feel pity for her, because Rosa is a victim of her own frustration and repressed anger.

But leaving Maria alone... that is simply inexcusable to me. In this case it isn't anger, it is pride. Rosa just doesn't want to ask a relative, a friend or a nanny to take care of Maria because she doesn't want anyone to know she's ditching her own daughter.

[Workworkwork]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Am I the only one that is more disturbed by the fact that Rosa left Maria alone for three days to have fun with her boyfriend?

Certainly killing Maria's only friends was by far a more evil thing she's done to her daughter, but I somehow can understand this because of "the evil witch". In other words that is something Rosa does while she is angered and doesn't have control over herself. As much as it is bad, it makes me feel pity for her, because Rosa is a victim of her own frustration and repressed anger.

But leaving Maria alone... that is simply inexcusable to me. In this case it isn't anger, it is pride. Rosa just doesn't want to ask a relative, a friend or a nanny to take care of Maria because she doesn't want anyone to know she's ditching her own daughter.

And now you know why I want Rosa to end up a miserable husk.

Spoiler for Higurashi:

Like Teppei.

[lubczyk]

I think Ange and the Stakes would make a great spin-off series. Ange and the Stakes travel the world and solve mysteries with Sakutaro and Juza as backups!!!

Man, there's way too many characters in this series, I think. Next week, we're going to get like 2 more characters.

Just wondering what are they doing to do for the second season.

[June 1983]

We don't know if they will animate "Chiru" yet in a second season, but hopefully they will. If they do, it won't be until 2011 probably.

And if you are wondering if there will be new characters in those arcs ... yes.

[momobunny]

I'm guessing that new characters will keep coming in until the series is over... though I have to admit, it's kind of sad to see a new character come in all of the time and see the other characters get the shaft because of it. If you look at EP1 compared to EP4, the main characters pretty much changed and the story doesn't even feel the same... well, to me anyway, when I read the novel anyway. I had no idea that a Meta World story would expand more with each episode, I originally just thought that it was going to be a murder mystery starring the 18 people on the island with a few magical twists. ^^;

[Kitsu]

In my heart the cousins will always be the main cast (okay along with the two victims of the furniture complex and Beatrice but mainly the cousins) It's sad that I recently read somewhere in a blog that for that person all non-Meta-characters are side-characters....

[Proto]

People are talking here as if Rosa was someone who was conciously trying to make Maria's life miserable instead of someone with her own psychological issues and problems, as Kaisos pointed out.

[Jan-Poo]

Bah, I'm more of the idea that the most important characters will become the focus of the story near the end. If I think about Rika for example she was probably an almost ethereal presence until Higurashi kai, at least in the anime ^^;

Anyway it makes sense for such a thing to be true, because if a character is strictly connected with the mysteries, the writer can't explain too much about its situation in the earlier part of the story or it would spoil the solution.

People are talking here as if Rosa was someone who was conciously trying to make Maria's life miserable instead of someone with her own psychological issues and problems, as Kaisos pointed out.

As I previously stated, I agree with this for what concern Rosa's anger issues, but not with what concerns leaving a 9 years old girl alone for three days. And while I do not think at all that Rosa is willingly making Maria's life miserable, I do think she's been selfish and irresponsible.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Kitsu

In my heart the cousins will always be the main cast (okay along with the two victims of the furniture complex and Beatrice but mainly the cousins) It's sad that I recently read somewhere in a blog that for that person all non-Meta-characters are side-characters....

The main characters keep changing... as in, the characters who get the most spotlight. Though... there are characters who keep the spotlight throughout the story. Battler and Beatrice, even though Beatrice didn't have a large role in EP1, her appearance was considered a highlight of the entire episode and her presence itself was a pretty large plot element.

I can see the real characters being referred to as side characters as well... it's sad, but... well... look at EP4 so far.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Bah, I'm more of the idea that the most important characters will become the focus of the story near the end. If I think about Rika for example she was probably an almost ethereal presence until Higurashi kai, at least in the anime ^^;

Anyway it makes sense for such a thing to be true, because if a character is strictly connected with the mysteries, the writer can't explain too much about its situation in the earlier part of the story or it would spoil the solution.

And this is true as well. Rika's role wasn't that big until the final arcs.

[Altima of the Gates]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Am I the only one that is more disturbed by the fact that Rosa left Maria alone for three days to have fun with her boyfriend?

Certainly killing Maria's only friends was by far a more evil thing she's done to her daughter, but I somehow can understand this because of "the evil witch". In other words that is something Rosa does while she is angered and doesn't have control over herself. As much as it is bad, it makes me feel pity for her, because Rosa is a victim of her own frustration and repressed anger.

But leaving Maria alone... that is simply inexcusable to me. In this case it isn't anger, it is pride. Rosa just doesn't want to ask a relative, a friend or a nanny to take care of Maria because she doesn't want anyone to know she's ditching her own daughter.

Well as they say, 'pride comes before the fall.' But its more than that. Its her desire to be loved, a different love than Maria can give her. If we are to believe she is possessed by 'the black witch' than her abandonment of Maria to satiate her own desires would be a part of that. We have to look at this from all sides, because I do think she honestly does regret her actions (inexcusable as they are from both her breaking Maria's precious toys AND leaving her alone). But yes, it would definitely have been prudent to at least hire a nanny.

[Ithekro]

Main character status seems to be gives to those that don't die as early in the arc.

But as it is, the Meta characters, for all we know, might be a representation of the real world characters, and this those 18 people are still the main charcters, just in a different way.

[Uchiha Soul]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

I cried too... That poor, deluded, neglected little girl...
God damn it, Rosa.

Me too I cried on Maria and cried also on Ange when she was in the class .. those girlz are so mean, they deserved to be killed.
Jus thinking of lonely young girl who lost her family and being hated by her aunt and class mate .. it just cruel.

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Am I the only one that is more disturbed by the fact that Rosa left Maria alone for three days to have fun with her boyfriend?
Certainly killing Maria's only friends was by far a more evil thing she's done to her daughter, but I somehow can understand this because of "the evil witch". In other words that is something Rosa does while she is angered and doesn't have control over herself. As much as it is bad, it makes me feel pity for her, because Rosa is a victim of her own frustration and repressed anger.

I felt the same way especially when she killed Sakutaro .. but I really do feel like this vacation is not a normal one .. I got the feelings that the one she met with was not her boy friend or maybe he is but there is something involving in their meetings. But it is true, Rosa doesn't has the right to act like that, her mind is unstable. I feel sorry for her and her daughter.

Originally Posted by June 1983

We don't know if they will animate "Chiru" yet in a second season, but hopefully they will. If they do, it won't be until 2011 probably.

oooh I cant wait till 2011 .. I think I will start read the VN after this season.

[Arkwright]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Am I the only one that is more disturbed by the fact that Rosa left Maria alone for three days to have fun with her boyfriend?

Certainly killing Maria's only friends was by far a more evil thing she's done to her daughter, but I somehow can understand this because of "the evil witch". In other words that is something Rosa does while she is angered and doesn't have control over herself. As much as it is bad, it makes me feel pity for her, because Rosa is a victim of her own frustration and repressed anger.

But leaving Maria alone... that is simply inexcusable to me. In this case it isn't anger, it is pride. Rosa just doesn't want to ask a relative, a friend or a nanny to take care of Maria because she doesn't want anyone to know she's ditching her own daughter.

I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but I started to dislike Maria after this part of the story when I learned why she is the way she is.

Yes, there's no excuse for Rosa leaving Maria alone, and she has anger issues. Still, things could be a lot worse. Clearly she does love her daughter deep down even though she doesn't know how to do it responsibly, and with the exception of the vacations/babysitter issue, she provides as best living conditions as she could be expected to as a working mother.

And while the tirade in this episode seems awful, I think Maria overreacts. To have such malevolent thoughts over one event?

Part of the problem is that Maria refuses to listen to anything outside of her own point of view. Yes, she's young, but so was Ange, and she gets defensive and overreacts when Ange makes the innocent stuffed animal question.

It's a similar problem here... Maria refuses to consider why her mother might be bothered by what's going on, and convinces herself that it's the witch's fault.

I did think Ange's scene in the academy was well done in the anime, and I probably got more impact from it than I did in the VN. There are a lot of similarities between Ange and Maria - Ange probably had it even worse growing up (no family, kicked out of the house and sent to a boarding school) and she fell back on the diary for comfort. And when she was driven into a corner in the academy room she even wished she could kill those people, but in the end it was just an angry outcry and wasn't something she actually wanted.

That's a difference between her and Maria - Maria has probably built up such a dependence on her own interpretation of things that she can't let harmful thoughts like that fade away (asking Beatrice how she can get back at the witch, and such.)

[Vegitto-kun]

Originally Posted by Arkwright

I guess this is an unpopular opinion, but I started to dislike Maria after this part of the story when I learned why she is the way she is.

Yes, there's no excuse for Rosa leaving Maria alone, and she has anger issues. Still, things could be a lot worse. Clearly she does love her daughter deep down even though she doesn't know how to do it responsibly, and with the exception of the vacations/babysitter issue, she provides as best living conditions as she could be expected to as a working mother.

And while the tirade in this episode seems awful, I think Maria overreacts. To have such malevolent thoughts over one event?

Part of the problem is that Maria refuses to listen to anything outside of her own point of view. Yes, she's young, but so was Ange, and she gets defensive and overreacts when Ange makes the innocent stuffed animal question.

It's a similar problem here... Maria refuses to consider why her mother might be bothered by what's going on, and convinces herself that it's the witch's fault.

I did think Ange's scene in the academy was well done in the anime, and I probably got more impact from it than I did in the VN. There are a lot of similarities between Ange and Maria - Ange probably had it even worse growing up (no family, kicked out of the house and sent to a boarding school) and she fell back on the diary for comfort. And when she was driven into a corner in the academy room she even wished she could kill those people, but in the end it was just an angry outcry and wasn't something she actually wanted.

That's a difference between her and Maria - Maria has probably built up such a dependence on her own interpretation of things that she can't let harmful thoughts like that fade away (asking Beatrice how she can get back at the witch, and such.)

So your opinion is

Hey abandon your child to go screw around with random guys

hey beat the crap out of your kid

hey tell your kid disgusts you

hey destroy her precious objects

but hey if you make sure you try your best once in a while all is forgiven

what the hell

[Ithekro]

Actually I think Maria is over imagining those scenes to be worse then they actually were. Not by much though. Though it suggests to me that perhaps the plot is Rosa's plot (real Beatrice)...or perhaps Maria's plot...if one can believe that a 9 year old is a murderer/mastermind behind this mass murder.

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Actually I think Maria is over imagining those scenes to be worse then they actually were. Not by much though. Though it suggests to me that perhaps the plot is Rosa's plot (real Beatrice)...or perhaps Maria's plot...if one can believe that a 9 year old is a murderer/mastermind behind this mass murder.

It might also be that Ange is the one imagining these scenes, and giving them a bit more kick...maybe Ange sees a bit of Eva in Rosa.

[Anju-chan]

Oh god, the Ange classmate bullying scene made me sob so hard. Mostly because it reminds me of my own classmates, sadly. Poor Maria! Rosa seems to get too uptight way too quickly and at the littlest things. Maria's so young, and she's all alone for the majority of her days! What else is she supposed to do?! This episode was tearjerker for me.

Anybody else notice that Lucifer died two times?

[chronotrig]

Originally Posted by Anju-chan

Spoiler for episode:

Anybody else notice that Lucifer died two times?

Spoiler for episode:

Yes, they replaced Leviathan with Lucifer just before she dies. You can see the back of Leviathan's head in the previous shot though...