Shakugan no Shana II - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[alvinkhorfire]

When Yuji saw Shana running away during the walk to school with Fumina, Yuji tried to approach Shana only to be stopped by Fumina. Man, why has Fumina to be so disruptive?

During conversation with Oga after sending Fumina back home, Yuji said he felt something was strange with the mansion. Erm, let hope we will get to know about this mystery as soon as possible.

About bracelet, could it be just that Fumina and butler are wearing it because of their culture? It may just as harmless as that. But, I still think there is possibility it is a hougu or something.

[Tokkan]

Originally Posted by ashlay

don't you think it's a little questionable to compare the first 5 episodes of a 26 episode series to the end of a 13 episode one? -_-

Yeah.

I really don't get these people who are comparing this show to ZnT or saying "this entire season has been bad"... yeah, it's not really the time to say those kind of things, especially when we're only 1/5 into the series.

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by alvinkhorfire

When Yuji saw Shana running away during the walk to school with Fumina, Yuji tried to approach Shana only to be stopped by Fumina. Man, why has Fumina to be so disruptive?

During conversation with Oga after sending Fumina back home, Yuji said he felt something was strange with the mansion. Erm, let hope we will get to know about this mystery as soon as possible.

About bracelet, could it be just that Fumina and butler are wearing it because of their culture? It may just as harmless as that. But, I still think there is possibility it is a hougu or something.

Fumina, for some reason, always tries to keep Yuuji by her side, except when she goes home, where Jiiya takes care of her.

Yuuji finds the mansion strange because it is SO big and there are so many empty rooms. Of course, anyone who hasn't lived in such a mansion would indeed find it overwhelming.

Well, they have lived overseas before. Anything is possible...


P.S. Lots of 殺気 in the thread... -_-

[holyman282]

I really enjoyed ep 4, and thought that I would probably enjoy this ep too. Funnily enough, this ep felt a bit average compared to the other eps and before i knew it, the ep ended without anything really happening apart from the continuous strain Konoe is putting on Yoshida and Shana.

There were however some nice hints to Konoe, alot of people speculated that the bracelet could be a hougo and this ep kind of cemented that idea in my head as we got a shot of the butler wearing the same bracelet.

[Sorrow-K]

I don't think things really are as bad as people are making them out to be. Yes, the pacing is wretched, and the retcon and plot device in the form of Fumina are examples of clumsy writing, but there's still a bit of good stuff in this. I much prefer this type of stuff, where we actually get to see character interactions and good deal of (justified) angst and frustration to the pointless action-orientated arcs that made little contribution to the overall plot that we got a few times in the first series.

I think people are expecting too much from this series if they were expecting to see any amount of progress between Shana and Yuuji before, at the very least, well into the second half of the series. By throwing Fumina into all of this and making an elaborate love rectangle, even though it sends Shana and Yuuji's relationship backward, it at least forces them to look at the state of their relationship and do something about it. It's a case of two-steps-backwards for x-steps-for-forward, where x may be two or three depending on how the writers are feeling. And we even got a look at the relationship between Shana and Wilhelmina, and hell, after all of that, even a baby-step worth of character development for Wilhelmina. That's something that, arguably, we wouldn't have gotten without Fumina appearing. We're getting progress in all of this, it's just happening at a very slow pace. But this is probably building to something anyway.

Shana's so cute when she's frustrated.

[Jhono1]

Originally Posted by Tokkan

Yeah.

I really don't get these people who are comparing this show to ZnT or saying "this entire season has been bad"... yeah, it's not really the time to say those kind of things, especially when we're only 1/5 into the series.

So what? Slow and boring is slow and boring, however you put it.

[4as]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

Though many might complain that this episode can be better you also should remember that it can be worse as well, to prove that - you can always watch Zero No tsukaima 2 season to see how excatly JCC Staff can screw things up. Though Shakugan No shana might be at some points not all that pleasing, its still way WAY better than anything that ZnT 2 had to offer.

Of for God's sake, will you just let it go?
ZnT2 is still a decent anime althought not lived up to the novel. EOT
It pretty much feels like your every post now emits some kind of hatred towards ZnT2.

As for episode - better then the last one for me.
This jealousy thing feels a bit unreal... almost like theres something... something ... maybe Konoe produces some kind of pheromones that attracts Yuji but discourages Shana and Yoshida.
Thats it! I figured it out!
... not

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by lua thien

By the way, I wonder on how Wilhelmina would fare on the show Hell's Kitchen with that cabbage?

I don't know if Gordon Ramsay is going to die either by Wilhelmina's cooking or getting skewered by the Flame Haze's ribbons if he ranted a bunch of expletives at her.

I think he will be dazzeled by her cuteness and beauty and then proceed to try to jump her bones.

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I wonder about Wilhelmina's social misfitness.

She must have been in her late teens, early twenties at the very least before becoming a Flame Haze (counting on the Middle Age people getting older faster...) How could she forget about food? Margery didn't forget what it means to be human...

Also, in all her centuries of mostly living on her own, Wilhelmina never learnt the basics of cooking?

Well her Guze no O is introduced as more unsocialable then she is.... But if she was born high ranked then she would have not done any of those mudane day to day stuff then most people would need to do. And if she like Margery became one because of a traumatic event she might have only concentrate on killing tomagura and food would have been just what was necessary to survive.

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Look, after learning about events in the novels that the anime clearly missed, here's my conclusion: Takahashi is adding these events for one reason - that some important events in the past 9 novels that have been missed need to be expressed. If they were skipped, they have to come up with some way to go back to that. Fumina is the best way to go back to one particular scene that creates another stepping point in Yuji and Shana's relationship.

Then that is just bad writing on the authors part. They should learn to adapt to the new storyline rather then try make the viewer jump though inconsitency hoops. I mean it wasn't so hard to come up with some plausible reason to make up for Yuji not absorbing Sidney's arm like it is said he did in the novells. If you look at GTO, there are 3 genres which have 3 different endings all which are enjoyable as each other to view.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Yuuji finds the mansion strange because it is SO big and there are so many empty rooms. Of course, anyone who hasn't lived in such a mansion would indeed find it overwhelming.

I believe that the rooms all looked the same, not too sure though

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Then that is just bad writing on the authors part. They should learn to adapt to the new storyline rather then try make the viewer jump though inconsitency hoops. I mean it wasn't so hard to come up with some plausible reason to make up for Yuji not absorbing Sidney's arm like it is said he did in the novells. If you look at GTO, there are 3 genres which have 3 different endings all which are enjoyable as each other to view.

Um, excuse me, but do you really think that when J.C. Staff wrote the storyline for the first season that there was actually going to be a second season? With a year-long hiatus, that's an absolute NO. If you want the storyline to be better, go and pay J.C. Staff about $20 million so that they can re-produce the storyline fit for 52 goddamn episodes.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Um, excuse me, but do you really think that when J.C. Staff wrote the storyline for the first season that there was actually going to be a second season? With a year-long hiatus, that's an absolute NO. If you want the storyline to be better, go and pay J.C. Staff about $20 million so that they can re-produce the storyline fit for 52 goddamn episodes.

On I'm sorry a professional can't take pride in their work now? Especially if the original author is now involved. Doesn't matter who pays them, good story writing is good story writing. I'm c**p at english, but if I can spot the glaring inconsistencies in the overall story between S1 and S2 I dread to think what a person who actually know about it thinks.

There are plenty of anime that were written as only one season and they didn't go through reality warps to make the thing match the original novel. RM comes to mind.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

On I'm sorry a professional can't take pride in their work now? Especially if the original author is now involved. Doesn't matter who pays them, good story writing is good story writing. I'm c**p at english, but if I can spot the glaring inconsistencies in the overall story between S1 and S2 I dread to think what a person who actually know about it thinks.

There are plenty of anime that were written as only one season and they didn't go through reality warps to make the thing match the original novel. RM comes to mind.

Oh, so now it's all about consistency. What in life is consistent? You have to remember that it was only April since Yuji first met Shana, and you expect Yuji to focus his mind on what's going on around him consistently? Even after six months, PEOPLE CHANGE, and they have to deal with it the way Shana is dealing with it now. So get over it.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by minhtam2448

Oh, so now it's all about consistency. What in life is consistent? You have to remember that it was only April since Yuji first met Shana, and you expect Yuji to focus his mind on what's going on around him consistently? Even after six months, PEOPLE CHANGE, and they have to deal with it the way Shana is dealing with it now. So get over it.

Bwuh get over what?

So because I enjoy an anime I can't analyse it and hope for a quality production? I have to ignore things that don't make sense because I am a fan? Hell no, the more I like something the more I analyse it. I'm sorry but I don't blind sheep follow anything.

People may change, but retcons and obvious changes in characters with no explanation are not a good thing. If you have been following any of my posts you would have seen something on the lines of "I hope that we get a good reason for this". I'm judging each episode on its own merit in regards to its place in the whole of the anime and I've been quite vocal about inconsistencies so I ain't changed my tone from the beginning of S2 to now. When I watch SnS I am not expecting a 2x2 shinobunden type story telling.

[charizardpal]

So anyone know what is up with the birds that keep landing on that girl? Its like something out of Beauty & the Beast. Are they spies or something?! I guess we'll know soon enough...

[Masanori Ota]

Just finished watching this episode. I found it to be quite good, actually. Don't know what people are so pissed about. No action != crap episode. By the way, next episode looks to be just as interesting, character-development-wise, as does episode 7. Can't wait for tomorrow. Remember to turn back your clocks, people!

[rimaa]

episode could've been better(in terms of events happening) but i didn't think it was too bad, overall i still enjoyed it

[holyman282]

Originally Posted by Masanori Ota

Just finished watching this episode. I found it to be quite good, actually. Don't know what people are so pissed about. No action != crap episode. By the way, next episode looks to be just as interesting, character-development-wise, as does episode 7. Can't wait for tomorrow. Remember to turn back your clocks, people!

I didn't think it was bad, just average and compared to the previous ep it wasn't nearly as fulfilling to watch.

I don't really care about action, heck I wouldn't mind if they focused half the series on character development, but honestly there really wasn't much character development this ep that we didn't see in ep 4. It was basically the same thing with Shana and Yoshida sticking together, I would of been a little satisfied if they talked a bit more to each other, rather then just look gloomy.

We've already established Shana's and Yoshida's jealousy the previous ep. Ep 4 was enjoyable for me and I even voted a 9 for it because of the character development, but this ep just felt like 23 min of nothing happening. Although we did get a few clues reguarding Konoe, there wasn't anything there in terms of the character development between Yuji/Yoshida/Shana/Konoe. In fact they decided to concentrate on the development of a side character Whilihemina. I certainly had nothing against this ep, it just seemed to come and pass for me that's all, it wasn't a ep that would specifically stand out.

[teachopvutru]

I didn't think this episode was as bad as many said. Even though I agree that the drama part could have shorten a bit... actually, no, they aren't as long as being made out to be, just need "variety" (lol, influenced by Mother Goddess) of execution.

But boy, Konoe's presence seriously is affecting a whole bunch of characters ... Shana, Wilhemina, Yoshida, Eita, Ogata ... And it does look like (hopefully, at least) that the next episode will answer the questions about their affections.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think about half of this episode is directed toward Wilhemnia... and if that's true, it just emphasize the impact of Konoe's presence, hopefully bearing some significant meanings.

However, it looks like most of us are more frustrated at Yuji's transformation into a typical guy of a harem. Wonder if they'll come up with a good excuse or just ignore it.

[Master Chibi]

If I didn't absolutely ADORE Carmel-san I would have stabbed my eyes out by the end of this episode. Did we really need another episode of Yoshida and Shana acting emo and just flat out stupid? Is Yuji really that fucking thick? I don't know, but no show should take that long to address the issue. Yeah, you're jealous, don't go slamming the window or staring at yourself in the mirror in complete shock because of it.

Cut the bullshit already.

[KaneDragon]

Putting the frustratingly slow Love Square aside... (not to mention how mentally slow Konoe is in general)

Yuji leveled up! Yuji learned "Physical Reinforcement lvl1" Good to see him making progress in something, though he'll certainly never try to exploit that for fun and profit.

I can't help but smile every time Tiamat says something.
Wilhelmina: It's time ~de arimasu.
Tiamat: Appointed time. (serious business )
*opens, hands over ramen cup*
Alastor: This again?

Also, Alastor's getting kinda amusing... I wasn't expecting him to go "Ramen? Again?" Not to mention his smart remark with the cooking:
Wilhelmina: Please do not worry. I have trained ~de arimasu.
Alastor: Looks like she didn't train to turn the ventilation on...
And later, "wtf is this" at the cabbage thing.

Has Wilhelmina always been using those other variations of "de arimasu"? "arimashou", "arimasukara", "arimasuka"...

Konoe's butler is obviously a battle butler. I fully expect him to start kicking ass sometime in the future.

[grey_moon]

The episode raised a few questions for me. For example:
Why did Yuji take over taking Konoe to and from school? The butler was there for that.
Ike being spurred into action, he doesn't seem like the type to meddle unless really frustrated.
Shana and Yoshida's jealousy; to me it no longer seems natural.
What did Yuji notice about the house?
The bracelets.

Personally I'm putting all judgements of ShanaXYujiXYoshida on hold until we get more info on Konoe. Everything about her smacks of something that is so out of place (even in the world of SnS).

Highlights of the episodes were:
Wilhemnia trying to cook real food
Wilhemnia cooking noodles with such a serious face
Wilhemnia trying look after Shana and getting flack for it
Wilhemnia trying to readjust her principles of economy over plain enjoyment
Wilhemnia finally having a small win against the deadliest opponents to Flame Haze (yes that is cooking). Notice how she was more injured cooking then she was fighting tomagura!
Wilhemnia in general

*edit*
@KaneDragon - Good point about the comments from Tiamat and Alastor they really made me chuckle too.
*/edit*

Things this episode reinforced:
Yuji's mum is indeed worthy of the respect Alastor bestows on her. They should setup a Flame Haze humanity school and send them to see her for a few weeks intensive humanizing course.