AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > General > General Chat > News & Politics

Notices

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2014-01-08, 23:23   Link #32501
kuroishinigami
Ava courtesy of patchy
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
I agree that it is rationally absurd to both sides to even consider an aggression considering the current economical ties between the countries, but I also don't live in Korea or China, nor have relatives who have suffer in the war, and we all know that :

1. fear is not rational.
2. both governments don't help the case either with fear mongerings.
3. Lots of irrational nation leader has waged war in an even more disadvantaged situation in the name of national(more like personal actually) ego, both of which is not a rational way of thinking

Just consider this, would the Jews have valid reason if they start to be wary of German if a political party and leader who is clearly pro neo-nazi/pro nazi wins the elections even if said party clearly has no reasonable reason to repeat Hitler's act?
__________________

Last edited by kuroishinigami; 2014-01-08 at 23:39.
kuroishinigami is offline  
Old 2014-01-08, 23:31   Link #32502
Terrestrial Dream
勇者
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tesla Leicht Institute
Age: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post

I repeat my point: Those who seriously consider the Imperial Japan rising again, can only consider Japan as either stupid or evil. Ether of witch requires that the person believing that the Japanese are a lessor people.
Holy... the lack of perspective from you is really worrying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuroishinigami View Post
I agree that it is ratinally absurd to both sides to even consider an aggression considering the current economical ties between the countries, but I also don't live in Korea or China, nor have relatives who have suffer from in the war, and we all know fear is not rational, and both governments don't help the case either with fear mongerings.

Just consider this, would the Jews have valid reason if they start to be wary of German if a political party and leader who is clearly pro neo-nazi/pro nazi wins the elections even if said party clearly has no reasonable reason to repeat Hitler's act?
Yep, this is the point. Their current actions are at least enough to cause an alarm and be bit wary of the situation. Nobody is going to stay Japan is planning to start World War 3 as of right now.

Well, I am done with this, no need to continue this topic since it will go nowhere.
__________________
Terrestrial Dream is offline  
Old 2014-01-08, 23:49   Link #32503
Vallen Chaos Valiant
Logician and Romantic
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Holy... the lack of perspective from you is really worrying.

Yep, this is the point. Their current actions are at least enough to cause an alarm and be bit wary of the situation. Nobody is going to stay Japan is planning to start World War 3 as of right now.

Well, I am done with this, no need to continue this topic since it will go nowhere.
My perspective is that you want me to believe the Japanese are untrustworthy knaves and that we should treat them like criminals. You know why I think that? Because that's what the old Taiwanese government used to tell me as a child. I have heard it all before, you can't expect it to work twice.
__________________
Vallen Chaos Valiant is offline  
Old 2014-01-08, 23:57   Link #32504
Soliloquy
絶対領域に嵌り過ぎた。
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Trendy Backwater
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
I repeat my point: Those who seriously consider the Imperial Japan rising again, can only consider Japan as either stupid or evil. Ether of witch requires that the person believing that the Japanese are a lessor people.
Of course it would be incredibly foolish to drive themselves into corner again. It's just that I feel Japan will continue to be even more of homogenic nation than they are now. It's not about the possibility of looming war, it's about blocking their nation from multi-cultural influences that will affect every aspects of the country, social, political or financial. It won't take immediate results but in the course of long periods. In short Japan has no interest in taking part in progressive changes, they want to keep their conservative values. And its values are incredibly outdated and flawed in terms of modern society. This is why at times the nationalistic pride the senior politicians often display are problematic not because of war but their insistence to stay in the past rather than looking at the bigger problems in Japan.

No Asian countries can afford to start wars because they will lose US as ally which is a tremendous loss. All their politicians are quite scheming, horrible at their jobs they cannot keep the finance of their countries afloat. Nobody probably likes US but they tolerate the presence and interfering to keep the countries from turning back to third nation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
But for examples sake, I was quite surprised to learn that Mao is looked upon so well in China. The Western portrayal of him is one of a monster, who might have done some good in modernizing China (debatable) but cost the lives of millions during his rule. And of course, the west isn't one to talk, because they all have mud on their faces too. I especially love it when some journalist or politician starts making the rounds with digs at China (or Iran or other "easy" target), completely missing the ironies of things their own nations have been doing.
Well most of dictators of their own countries would be probably remembered as tyrants and whatnot. Not Romania, I mean it was 600 years ago and yes their neighbour countries fabricated a lot of history about Vlad Tepes. Doesn't change the fact he is rather respected as an excellent leader despite the documented atrocity to his own people.

Most Western countries to me seems hypocritical after all they all have blood on their hands particularly the mistreatment of indigenous people.

If it was not LDP revising the constitution, It would be ok, fine and dandy that Japan is moving forward.
__________________
Zettai Ryouiki Addict
Soliloquy is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 00:34   Link #32505
Solace
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soliloquy View Post
Of course it would be incredibly foolish to drive themselves into corner again. It's just that I feel Japan will continue to be even more of homogenic nation than they are now. It's not about the possibility of looming war, it's about blocking their nation from multi-cultural influences that will affect every aspects of the country, social, political or financial. It won't take immediate results but in the course of long periods. In short Japan has no interest in taking part in progressive changes, they want to keep their conservative values. And its values are incredibly outdated and flawed in terms of modern society. This is why at times the nationalistic pride the senior politicians often display are problematic not because of war but their insistence to stay in the past rather than looking at the bigger problems in Japan.

No Asian countries can afford to start wars because they will lose US as ally which is a tremendous loss. All their politicians are quite scheming, horrible at their jobs they cannot keep the finance of their countries afloat. Nobody probably likes US but they tolerate the presence and interfering to keep the countries from turning back to third nation.
All true. I think most of us here see eye to eye on that. But I'm trying to insert some kind of reason into the discussion, because it's gone on for quite a while now and it's usually driven by some hostile words that don't really reflect the current reality of things. I think most of those voices are gone for the moment though, so hopefully the thread can get back to normal. ^^

As for Japan itself, I feel it is indicative of a larger global problem. It's one of those moments in history where the human species faces really tough choices about the future it wants, but no one is sure yet how to proceed, so crisis after crisis continue to pile up until something breaks and we're forced to confront them. It's that time when conservatism versus progressivism (not speaking strictly politically here) really butt heads, because one side wants things to go back to the "good old days" and the other wants to try and move forward by doing something different from that. And of course there's always the people who want to exploit it for their own gains, consequences be damned.
__________________
Solace is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 01:04   Link #32506
Ithekro
Gamilas Falls
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
Japan is pretty much the only country that has completely given up its right to go to war with anyone outside of self-defense. They do not have a soveriegn right to war anymore. They gave it up by treaty and by their own constitution.

It will take a lot to bring Japan back to that of military powerhouse that can project power.
__________________
Dessler Soto, Banzai!
Ithekro is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 02:17   Link #32507
risingstar3110
✘˵╹◡╹˶✘
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
Honestly i don't see this event in any other ways but political parties trying to bargain each other chip. We all know that Japan won't start a WW3 and invade nearby nationw anytime soon. On the other hand, we know Japan will still have its right to militarize their (defense) force and honour its own censored version of WW2.

Both the Japanese and Chinese government know full well that. Even we also do.... In fact i won't be surprised if 20 years from now, we will pick up the newspaper with front line of China and Japan arguing over about Yasukuni Temple again.

But until then several more Japanese politician would be elected for their stand in Yasukuni, and the PRC party will several times being strengthened with more nationalism drive. Who know maybe they can actually accomplish something with this, like having China turn blind eyes on the whaling, while Japan draw away from criticizing China's human right record. Typical bargaining chips
__________________
risingstar3110 is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 03:23   Link #32508
Cosmic Eagle
今宵の虎徹は血に飢えている
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
And see, I used words like LDP and political, meaning I wasn't talking about Japan as whole, but rather its current political situation and regime.
Honestly speaking though, the current political situation in Japan is still relatively normal compared to the chaos in the 1920s-30s or even to PRC's current situation seeing that the latter spends more on arms build up and is far more strident and assertive on its nationalism. Anyone can easily see through the charade both side's leaders play. The real danger comes from retarded fanatical war porn lovers (which apparently seems to be a bigger danger in China....since it forms a bigger percentage of the populace) doing something to force the incumbent leader's hand
__________________
Cosmic Eagle is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 05:41   Link #32509
sa547
Senior Member
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
The real danger comes from retarded fanatical war porn lovers (which apparently seems to be a bigger danger in China....since it forms a bigger percentage of the populace) doing something to force the incumbent leader's hand
Yeah, and the hawkish generals that regularly appear on CCTV, talking about military preparedness, hardware and the "nine-dotted-line".
__________________
sa547 is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 06:57   Link #32510
maplehurry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
German prosecutors have charged an 88-year-old former soldier over the Nazis' worst atrocity on French soil, the 1944 massacre in the village of Oradour-sur-Glane.




Well, I feel sorry for the old men. The others served their time when they were young.
maplehurry is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 07:30   Link #32511
Soliloquy
絶対領域に嵌り過ぎた。
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Trendy Backwater
Age: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by maplehurry View Post
I personally think they should let him go but I guess it's Germany. Still I find it unnecessary since he was a foot soldier and given order by the higher rank to demolish the town.
__________________
Zettai Ryouiki Addict
Soliloquy is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 07:49   Link #32512
Roger Rambo
Sensei, aishite imasu
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soliloquy View Post
I personally think they should let him go but I guess it's Germany. Still I find it unnecessary since he was a foot soldier and given order by the higher rank to demolish the town.
I'm really not sure the "regular foot soldier following orders" excuse really pans out when you're part of a highly ideological military group like the SS.
Roger Rambo is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 07:53   Link #32513
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I'm really not sure the "regular foot soldier following orders" excuse really pans out when you're part of a highly ideological military group like the SS.
You mean you have never done anything stupid when you are young?
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 07:57   Link #32514
Der Langrisser
Valkyrie pilot
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Rouen, France
Age: 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I'm really not sure the "regular foot soldier following orders" excuse really pans out when you're part of a highly ideological military group like the SS.
If I remember correctly, the Nuremberg Trials stated that following orders wasn't a valid excuse for war crimes.
Der Langrisser is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 08:00   Link #32515
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Der Langrisser View Post
If I remember correctly, the Nuremberg Trials stated that following orders wasn't a valid excuse for war crimes.
Between shooting the civilian or officer or getting shot yourself; there isn't much of a choice.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 08:45   Link #32516
SeijiSensei
AS Oji-kun
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Age: 74
Militarization is a trend throughout East Asia. Here's an article from this week's Times about the increasing number of submarines in the arsenals of Southeast Asian nations. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/op...e-in-asia.html

Quote:
Most Asian nations have been expanding their military budgets and capabilities in recent years. Now there is a new rush by Southeast Asian countries to acquire submarines because they have the money to pay for them.
SeijiSensei is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 10:14   Link #32517
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeijiSensei View Post
Militarization is a trend throughout East Asia. Here's an article from this week's Times about the increasing number of submarines in the arsenals of Southeast Asian nations. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/op...e-in-asia.html
Quote:
It is not at all clear that China would be more restrained with its aggressive claim if these nations possessed more military power. Japan’s substantial military power, including an advanced submarine fleet, has not stopped China from acting on its territorial claim against Japan in the East China Sea. The Association of Southeast Asian Nations needs to act collectively to negotiate with China to prevent further destabilization, instead of each country dealing separately with China.
But China is the one that wants to deal with them separately, through the age-old "divide and conquer". And the regional bickering over the oil and gas fields don't help either; all China has to do is to cut a different deal with each nation "recognising their rights" and "offering a joint exploitation" before claiming the entire of South China Sea.

Buying submarines seem a fascinating idea though I don't know why they won't buy other kind of ships, like frigates. I don't mind torpedoing either of these.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 10:21   Link #32518
ganbaru
books-eater youkai
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Betweem wisdom and insanity
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Buying submarines seem a fascinating idea though I don't know why they won't buy other kind of ships, like frigates.
Because of their usefulness against surface ships and other sub and being less vulnerable to air power look like good reasons to me.
__________________
ganbaru is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 10:33   Link #32519
SaintessHeart
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by ganbaru View Post
Because of their usefulness against surface ships and other sub and being less vulnerable to air power look like good reasons to me.
Submarines are notoriously difficult to detect and fight, often the tactics revolve around sweeping the water for anomalies then firing a bunch of underwater explosives at the particular spot. In fact, other than laying mines for the subs to walk into, there isn't much you can do about them.

Sub v sub warfare is a sillier concept; I will not go into that because it is incredibly difficult to hit another submarine with one of your own compared to dropping depth charges.
__________________

When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
SaintessHeart is offline  
Old 2014-01-09, 17:03   Link #32520
maplehurry
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Between shooting the civilian or officer or getting shot yourself; there isn't much of a choice.
The leadership's in the much smaller minority and don't have magical power. In theory, there's a choice.

Practically speaking, there wasn't really much a foot soldier can do beyond occasionally pretending to fail to spot a civilian trying to escape the onslaught. (like how a certain businessman managed to keep bribing the soldiers to not search his house, or a pianist by playing a song). But yea, even this has various degree of risk involved depending on the situations.

Last edited by maplehurry; 2014-01-09 at 18:20.
maplehurry is offline  
Closed Thread

Tags
current affairs, discussion, international

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
We use Silk.